00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.08.26 00:23:48 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk/paper.htm) 02:18:09 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 02:23:01 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 02:32:32 --- quit: nighty- (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:32:46 --- join: nighty- (~cp@www.taiyolabs.com) joined #forth 03:18:58 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.223.200) joined #forth 03:19:14 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 03:23:41 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03:28:20 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 04:35:49 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 04:51:59 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 06:18:38 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 07:56:10 --- quit: djinni_ (Quit: Leaving) 08:02:07 --- join: djinni (~djinni@68.ip-149-56-14.net) joined #forth 08:24:21 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 08:29:01 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 08:40:14 --- join: proteusguy_satri (~proteusgu@183.89.212.130) joined #forth 08:43:29 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 09:24:28 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 10:33:06 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 10:33:11 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Network is unreachable) 11:12:51 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 11:47:23 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@182.58.213.155) joined #forth 11:48:34 --- quit: mayuresh (Client Quit) 12:01:20 reepca, I'm afraid I've never in a million years considered using emacs for forth. 12:04:46 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@70-89-65-45-little-rock-ar.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 12:43:35 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:44:02 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 12:45:10 proteusguy_satri: what do you use? 12:47:43 I use the embedded forth block editor. 12:58:10 --- join: asdfa (~oscar@94.163.221.176) joined #forth 13:00:47 --- nick: asdfa -> novavis 13:01:28 at the risk of sounding like an idiot, where can I figure out how to do that? Searching "gforth block editor" hasn't yielded anything useful - the manual says "type use blocked.fb 0 list for details", but that just lists the (lack of) contents of block 0 13:02:37 --- quit: ovf (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13:04:21 --- quit: jeremyheiler (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13:05:26 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 13:05:53 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:06:15 --- quit: novavis (Quit: novavis) 13:06:29 --- join: asdfa (~oscar@94.163.221.176) joined #forth 13:06:32 --- nick: asdfa -> novavis 13:07:33 --- quit: novavis (Client Quit) 13:08:13 I haven't used gforth. Apparently it does support emacs. https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Using-files-for-Forth-code-Tutorial.html 13:08:53 Yeah, that's what I've been doing, but the tab-completion isn't working for some reason (made a post about it in c.l.f last night) 13:16:26 --- join: novavis (~user@94.163.221.176) joined #forth 13:17:55 --- part: novavis left #forth 13:23:24 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 13:23:51 --- quit: mnemnia (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 13:27:34 --- quit: byteflame (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:29:40 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@70-89-65-45-little-rock-ar.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 13:38:04 --- join: ovf (sid19068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-odlqdkfviwffjofo) joined #forth 13:56:41 --- join: jeremyheiler (sid81469@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kivssgndszwilyla) joined #forth 13:59:50 --- quit: byteflame (Remote host closed the connection) 14:01:29 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 14:56:21 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 14:57:11 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:00:09 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.40) joined #forth 15:41:43 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:00:14 --- quit: ovf (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:06:06 --- quit: jeremyheiler (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16:21:14 --- join: ovf (sid19068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azbklqgsapqsylnd) joined #forth 16:41:30 --- join: jeremyheiler (sid81469@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-efhoffeyaidasukk) joined #forth 16:46:25 --- quit: jeremyheiler (Remote host closed the connection) 16:46:26 --- quit: ovf (Remote host closed the connection) 16:46:27 --- quit: mnemnia (Remote host closed the connection) 16:47:06 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 16:47:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:11:17 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-234-179.prtc.net) joined #forth 17:35:34 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 17:35:53 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 18:21:36 --- join: ovf (sid19068@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dbrgzxtjxdzmlzer) joined #forth 18:25:29 --- join: CodeTortoise (~CodeTorto@2602:306:37fe:b70::46) joined #forth 18:27:28 Forth is the first programming language I have dived into learning that not only makes me want to become a proper comptuter scientist, but dive deep into become a proper computer engnineer. 18:28:46 Can anyone recommend a good learning path for getting good quickly? I mean, I know it will take time to master, but I don't particularly want to meander. 18:29:12 I am in the middle of reading Starting Forth and some of Thinking Forth. 18:29:50 I got Gforth, ficl, freeputer, Win32Forth, evaluation MPE, evaluation SwiftForth. 18:30:10 ... Retro on my iPad... Factor, Breeze. 18:30:16 ... see how I meander? 18:31:18 And, I have basically bought all the cheap books on Amazon, like Stack Computers, and all the books that are basically ebooks of free stuff on the internet. 18:31:53 ... Okay, I will come back to see how my very presumptuous wall of text is doing. 18:31:58 --- join: jeremyheiler (sid81469@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqqfwqcmxtcokztc) joined #forth 18:45:03 I dunno, but if I had to guess what the others would say, it'd be something along the lines of "if you like coding, go code something. Find something and do it." 18:51:00 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:54:48 reepca, I guess sometimes the only advice is the only good advice. Yeah, I will keep meandernig, reading everything, and the moment I am curious about if something can be done, start doing it. 18:56:25 CodeTortoise: http://projecteuler.net/ and http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code 18:56:43 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 18:57:02 I think Reddit and the Github community has me covered for modern Forth. Is there any one project anyone can recommend that is a good example of what can be done with Forth? Last meta question! My next question will be about the real confusion about the language, or some implementation. 18:57:24 CORDIC, Thank You., 18:59:57 *shrug* some guy on reddit was discussing making a game engine in forth. I don't know how that's working out for him. In general it seems you're more likely to find problems that are usually of medium size being solved with a small amount of code than you are to find problems that are usually of large size being solved with a medium amount of code in forth. 19:01:36 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 19:01:56 So you usually don't see many "wow, I'm going to use that every day!" kind of applications in forth. A classic example given is chuck moore's OKAD, but from what I hear it's more like 1/8 of a normal system's features done in 1/100 the code. I'm not a hardware designer and haven't used it, though, so I'm just repeating what I've heard. 19:04:17 I get that. The foundational philosophy of Forth seems to keep everything as simple and small as possible, so maybe most project are similarly small and simple. 19:06:01 Forth also seems to be a a language you can "own." If I take the time, I can come to understand every aspect of a Forth and implement it myself. I really want to get to that level. 19:10:57 [[http://utoh.org/3ins4th.html][3 Instruction Forth]] is one of my favourite. 19:13:53 CORDIC neat. This is the kind of stuff I look for and aspire to be able to actually do. I will be yet another dude who tries to make a bare metal forth for the Raspberry Pi and Arduino. 19:15:26 CodeTortoise: *sigh* Don't You know that You can not get needed documentation to do so for RPi? I guess it is possible for BeagleBone. 19:15:48 I would start with something like AVR (Arduino). 19:17:45 http://krue.net/avrforth/ is the best AVR implementation I am aware of. 19:19:09 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 19:19:26 CORDIC, Nope. Did not know that. I forget that it is not 100 percent open. 19:20:09 Ah. A goldmine. Thank You. 19:21:12 Check out [[http://www.maxim-ic.com/MAXQUG][MAXQ]]. It has a single instruction :D . 19:21:53 CodeTortoise: Do You know Lisp? 19:22:25 Clojure 19:24:29 I guess even Clojure is Lisp ;) . It looks interesting, but I don't see why should I bother with JVM. 19:25:20 I was mostl inspired by some of the talks and philosophy by Rich Hickey, so I gave it a try. 19:25:28 --- quit: reepca (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 19:27:13 I started going through How To Design Programs, so I was learning some student lisp, and I am interested in Racket. 19:27:50 But, the only other language that really grabs my attention is Erlang and by extenstion Elixir. 19:28:36 So, if I REALLY want a lisp, I know I am going to spend my time with http://lfe.io/ 19:29:29 Ug. I am not a programming polyglot. I am a dilettante. 19:33:04 One of my aspiration is to be focused in productive. Forth gives you so little, almost no batteries, I have no choice but to focus. I can't pull down some package that did the work for me. 19:48:06 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:48:41 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:f85e:8e6e:d8f:bdcc) joined #forth 19:50:01 Something I realized about myself, I have a soft spot for languages that tell me it is all 'ok' at the end. 20:00:13 https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alan_Perlis 20:00:42 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit 20:02:19 Right... There is no reason to enforce some naive pedogogy on myself, and ignore decades of good ideas and practices to actually help me accomplish things. 20:02:30 ... I am not programming just to learn how to program. 20:03:19 This is why I go on IRC. Easily accessible "people smarter than me" 20:04:26 You will have to wait more for smarter people. 20:14:08 Hm. I got a lot out of your responses, and being helpful is great measure of intelligence. 20:14:21 I'll be sure to pass it on. 20:24:05 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28da:4950:b864:2605) joined #forth 20:24:44 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:35:12 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:35:14 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28da:4950:b864:2605) joined #forth 21:02:11 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:02:12 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 21:07:54 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 21:09:36 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-234-179.prtc.net) joined #forth 21:13:19 --- quit: CodeTortoise (Quit: Leaving) 21:20:30 --- join: CodeTortoise (~CodeTorto@2602:306:37fe:b70:6c11:9682:136f:1ad8) joined #forth 21:24:13 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 21:24:53 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:33:54 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:34:05 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 21:48:08 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28da:4950:b864:2605) joined #forth 21:48:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:59:39 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:59:58 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28da:4950:b864:2605) joined #forth 22:16:01 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28da:4950:b864:2605) joined #forth 22:17:16 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 22:19:33 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@71.198.73.193) joined #forth 22:21:10 --- quit: mnemnia (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 22:21:28 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28da:4950:b864:2605) joined #forth 22:23:56 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22:24:59 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8102:7c95:28da:4950:b864:2605) joined #forth 22:25:50 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:59:28 --- quit: CodeTortoise (Quit: Leaving) 23:13:19 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.08.26