00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.08.12 00:09:51 OOP is a crazy idea on the sort of small systems Forth is most suitable for 00:34:46 is there a way to do windows apps in forth? 00:54:46 what about vfx 01:16:53 systemsgotyou: once you try writing anything real, you'll understand why almost nobody uses it. 01:17:12 why is that? 01:18:58 Because Forth lacks even basic compositional features. 01:19:27 what do you mean? 01:19:28 --- part: nerfur left #forth 01:19:38 encapsulation? 01:19:39 --- join: nerfur (~nerfur@mail.freeside.ru) joined #forth 01:19:42 You have to implement your own OO facilities, if you want to reuse your experience from other languages. 01:20:33 Not to mention that you need to implement more or less sane RT library in your OOP framework as above. 01:22:01 systemsgotyou, I tried (and hope that I will not abandon it) to do some very basic CGI with Forth 01:22:51 Note that the world stopped using CGI for a decade at least. 01:26:37 after looking at some examples, forth doesnt look like what i expected in use 01:27:26 What do you want to accomplish? 01:30:04 create higher level apps while learning lower level embedded/assembly stuff as i got 01:32:27 You cannot do that. 01:33:03 well, I would like a high level language with low level abilities 01:33:47 That's very vague. 01:33:57 E.g. you can do low-level programming in Haskell. 01:34:12 The distance between Forth and Haskell is... 01:34:34 Well... They are almost opposite ends of technology. 01:36:24 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 01:37:45 --- quit: nighty-- (Remote host closed the connection) 01:40:49 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 01:41:12 DGASAU, please read the channel notice - no trolling. 01:43:39 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 01:44:59 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.33) joined #forth 01:45:28 proteusguy: please, read some dictionary before you use words whose meanings you don't understand. 01:46:37 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 01:48:47 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.33) joined #forth 01:49:42 DGASAU, there's a difference between useful criticism and saying "forth sucks". Your comments always end up as the latter. You also are only on the #forth channel. You are the very definition of a troll. 01:50:58 proteusguy: i just dont know why he doing this. if he feel happy on trolling people, why not trolling a much bigger community? 01:51:50 yunfan, misery loves company. 01:52:04 ...but not lots of it. :) 01:52:08 yunfan, as I understand he is "fallen" forth guy) One who moves to black side of relations with Forth :-D 01:52:24 nerfur, haha correct 01:53:16 was he in the Zeal of the converts ? 01:54:26 nerfur: you looks like from russia, as i knew, mail.ru used to bring a forth embeded web server, but now i cant got it 01:55:03 yeah, I'm from russia, never heard about it, will try to look for more info 01:55:35 it looks like they turned to use lua 01:58:16 sorry, its not mail.ru but eserv.ru nerfur 01:58:46 ahhh 01:58:50 SP-Forth ones 01:58:54 https://sourceforge.net/projects/acweb/ this 01:58:55 yes 01:59:48 it loosk like it was implement by c 02:00:16 if that's so i was thinking if it could be joint with the high performance network library libev 02:00:49 Ever looked at the source code of it? 02:01:16 i assume that by its official page 02:03:42 proteusguy: if you stop name-calling and start at least reading, you'll notice that all my criticism is useful and has always been. 02:04:35 yunfan: try reading the source code, and you'll see why high performance is hard to reach with SP-Forth. 02:04:50 DGASAU: but you looks dont like those unix haters, i only saw your "suck" words, i have hang on this channel for years 02:05:17 And acWeb in particular, since acWeb is SP-Forth-only implementation. 02:05:22 DGASAU: i dont count on it, that's why i consider if it could use libev 02:05:35 nope wont use acweb, i am linux user 02:06:47 I don't remember if I tried running network services under WINE. 02:07:09 Maybe you could try, if you are really interested in acWeb. 02:08:24 nope, wine service app is a wrong direction 02:09:29 Thus, effectively you say, "no, I don't care of this web server." 02:09:50 As if you've got dozens of them lying around. :) 02:10:11 DGASAU, your criticism was useful - in 2013. 02:12:54 yunfan, https://bernd-paysan.de/httpd-en.html 02:13:00 My criticism was useful just two lines above, if you only learn reading instead of name-calling. ;) 02:13:19 nerfur: their web server is even weirder. :) 02:13:27 High performance is not for it at all. 02:14:56 I'm not sure I've ever seen a way to embed your own code into it in any sensible way. 02:15:12 DGASAU, I talk about web servers, not performance, yunfan - too, if I understand him/her correctly 02:15:47 Then I don't follow yunfan's logic. 02:15:53 yunfan, but personally I prefer thttpd-way ) but I don't need it for more than some funny experiments 02:16:15 Why do you want using high-performance networking library, if you're not aiming at high performance service? 02:16:20 Just because you can? 02:19:30 DGASAU: but i am aiming that 02:19:37 i am a backend service developer 02:19:45 always need to aim to that 02:20:38 http://tarantool.org/ this tools use lua as the language to server millions of requests 02:20:55 Sure. 02:20:55 but i think luavm's overcost is still too much than forth 02:21:37 if that running on your desktop, then its ok, your ram were wasting all day 02:21:39 Because: a) that's not Forth; b) its main developer worked at Oracle for some time and had experience with implementing HP DBMS; c) it's Mail.ru. 02:22:28 They count milliseconds there. 02:22:39 i think you are not in the domain 02:22:57 any modern service could easily boot up to that scale level 02:23:26 Are you talking about memory consumption or latency? 02:23:37 both 02:23:53 Then it is not about "any modern service." 02:24:51 You can try to find their (somewhat oldish today) report how they squeezed fast response with sweat and tears from node.js. 02:25:16 node.js is the new php 02:25:31 It is "any modern service." 02:25:48 there're full of begining player trying to use it as their silver bollets 02:26:07 i am talking about service like nginx/redis 02:26:39 Sysoev is even more hardcore developer. 02:26:53 Ever looked in the source code? 02:27:09 All that performance was achieved with a lot of sweat. 02:27:50 (Besides, Redis is also Lua, not Forth.) 02:28:03 that's what i am talking about 02:28:17 i think forth could be a better language in such cases 02:28:28 Not at all. 02:28:46 Try at least designing optimizer for Forth code. 02:29:37 i might seeking help from people who has mad carrierIQ 02:29:54 they have proved the large scaled usage case of forth 02:32:02 How is "large scale" related to "low latency"? 02:32:51 If you bring 9 pregnant women together, they won't give birth to a child in a month. 02:33:42 but i havnt say carrierIQ proved low latency isues 02:34:10 You're jumping from topic to topic. 02:34:13 i just use a simple fibbonacci testing to prove that 02:34:43 yes, i might jump topics. that might because my english is so pooor :d 02:34:44 PHP and Python are deployed at large scale. 02:34:57 also i dont suck here and there 02:35:11 Neither shines in performance. 02:35:28 i use python as my work language, i knew that 02:35:52 and i knew the advantage and disadvantage of python as for large scale service language 02:36:05 many pythoner turned to go for scaling 02:38:41 I don't know why you stress this scalability question. 02:40:39 If you say, you're backend developer and you have experience with high performance, you know that scalability is not a big deal. 02:46:59 --- join: eldre (~eldre@blip.afturgurluk.net) joined #forth 02:49:05 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 02:51:56 what is a form of programming that is hard but in demand 03:20:17 --- join: reepca (~user@184.52.15.40) joined #forth 04:00:23 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 04:01:07 --- join: dys (~dys@x5f71d3fd.dyn.telefonica.de) joined #forth 04:09:33 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p57A2FC67.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 05:52:00 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:52:20 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.33) joined #forth 06:07:39 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@70-89-65-45-little-rock-ar.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 06:54:00 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 07:06:45 --- quit: karswell` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:08:02 --- join: karswell` (~user@179.63.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 07:27:22 --- join: groovy3shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 07:28:17 --- nick: groovy3shoes -> groovy2shoes 07:30:24 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@99-164-75-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 07:32:44 --- quit: karswell` (Remote host closed the connection) 07:32:50 --- join: DGASAU` (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 07:34:02 --- join: karswell` (~user@179.63.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 07:34:31 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 07:45:01 --- quit: mark4 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 08:39:42 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 08:54:35 COBOL 08:54:40 M(UMPS) 09:06:03 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 09:36:01 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 10:07:20 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8C084.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 10:22:35 --- quit: probonono (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:23:13 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #forth 10:30:26 --- join: bedah (~bedah@dyndsl-037-138-058-216.ewe-ip-backbone.de) joined #forth 10:30:35 --- quit: probonono (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:31:15 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #forth 11:25:38 --- quit: karswell` (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11:55:47 --- quit: reepca (Remote host closed the connection) 11:57:00 --- join: reepca (~user@184.52.15.40) joined #forth 13:49:05 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:56:19 --- join: fiddlerwoaroof (~fiddlerwo@unaffiliated/fiddlerwoaroof) joined #forth 14:34:27 --- quit: byteflame (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 14:39:12 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 14:39:43 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:39:57 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 14:49:26 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b40bd37.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 15:16:43 pointfree: My current solution which I test out is programming the FPGA with a abstraction of it own which allows partial reprogramming (simulate an FPGA with an FPGA). It seem to work at least. However after reading the linked blog I think the Xilinx chip is for sure a better target so thanks 15:20:16 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-72-50-86-80.prtc.net) joined #forth 15:23:37 --- part: Mat4 left #forth 15:44:42 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 15:46:40 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.58.158) joined #forth 15:51:32 --- quit: bedah (Quit: Ex-Chat) 16:06:37 --- quit: DKordic (Remote host closed the connection) 16:06:57 --- join: CORDIC (~user@178-221-28-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 16:59:54 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.44) joined #forth 17:01:19 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 17:01:19 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh 17:14:47 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 17:27:54 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.44) joined #forth 18:38:54 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 18:45:13 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 19:09:18 --- quit: tangentstorm (Changing host) 19:09:18 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@learnprogramming/etc/tangentstorm) joined #forth 19:46:12 Here's a problem where I'm not sure how to manage it with dictionary allocation. I'm creating a group of words, and I need to put the xt of each word into an array. 19:47:40 Of course, I can't create the array until all of the words are defined 19:48:51 I considered just leaving a counter with the number of words on top of the xts of each of the words, but then I'm potentially limited by stack size 20:31:55 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:38:25 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.44) joined #forth 20:46:41 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 21:06:41 --- join: karswell` (~user@179.63.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 21:13:08 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h178-129-36-57.dyn.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 21:49:44 --- quit: malyn (Quit: "") 22:10:25 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 22:14:15 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.133.31) joined #forth 22:14:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:33:10 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.08.12