00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.08.01 00:31:13 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 00:33:42 --- join: impomatic_ (~digital_w@host81-129-217-145.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 01:26:23 arg, I'm having trouble thinking of how to properly use dictionary allocation. It seems really hard to use it dynamically for anything that isn't immediately used, since it's a stack-based scheme, but without any stack manipulation (which I imagine would involve a lot of wasteful copying anyway). I probably shouldn't worry about it until I hit a specific problem, but I'll just ask now - any tips for dictionary allocation? 01:34:48 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h62-133-162-248.static.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 01:41:53 --- join: dys` (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801) joined #forth 02:43:11 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 02:52:27 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.94.7) joined #forth 03:00:53 --- quit: nal1 (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 03:14:51 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 03:51:40 --- join: nighty (~nighty@s229123.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 04:22:38 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8C85D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 05:22:05 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 05:23:26 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05:25:00 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.59) joined #forth 05:25:26 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 05:29:44 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 05:57:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@183.89.91.231) joined #forth 05:57:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 06:02:08 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:02:20 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@70-89-65-45-little-rock-ar.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 06:04:00 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.59) joined #forth 06:07:35 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 06:08:40 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 06:08:57 --- quit: byteflame (Remote host closed the connection) 06:12:21 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.59) joined #forth 06:13:26 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 06:13:27 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh 06:26:06 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@70-89-65-45-little-rock-ar.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 06:35:11 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:35:27 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 06:35:54 reepca, what do you mean? Like, what to use it for? 06:59:04 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 07:04:16 --- join: DGASAU (~user@194.31.92.26) joined #forth 07:04:56 --- quit: ggherdov` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:20:02 --- join: ggherdov` (sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ltoyceppmggbbtlm) joined #forth 07:23:10 --- quit: ggherdov` (Excess Flood) 07:24:30 --- join: ggherdov` (sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-szbwdvodtvlxnyyp) joined #forth 07:24:40 --- quit: ggherdov` (Excess Flood) 07:26:27 --- join: ggherdov` (sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iopdpljecqwhipok) joined #forth 07:55:08 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 07:56:28 --- join: karswell (~user@179.63.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 08:54:58 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09:03:31 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:58:52 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 10:01:56 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:05:57 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8D24D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 10:09:31 --- quit: dys` (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 10:23:17 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 10:30:32 --- join: sbodin_ (~sbodin@176.113.120.225) joined #forth 10:30:54 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-239-211.prtc.net) joined #forth 10:37:08 --- join: pointfree (~pointfree@c-174-62-81-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:04:31 --- join: bedah (~bedah@dyndsl-037-138-059-140.ewe-ip-backbone.de) joined #forth 11:11:25 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 11:15:06 --- quit: sbodin_ (Quit: Leaving) 11:25:26 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:43:25 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 13:32:36 --- quit: bedah (Quit: Ex-Chat) 13:58:15 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 14:04:30 --- join: nal1 (~nal@adsl-64-237-238-122.prtc.net) joined #forth 14:06:54 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:28:31 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 14:34:20 --- join: ehaliewicz (~user@2602:306:80af:8f50:8593:2ad9:a5ef:4eb2) joined #forth 14:34:46 --- quit: byteflame (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 14:44:47 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.59) joined #forth 14:54:21 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 14:57:29 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.59) joined #forth 15:36:44 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 15:37:44 --- join: karswell` (~user@179.63.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 15:39:24 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@c-71-238-242-230.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:55:09 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@121.54.58.140) joined #forth 15:56:21 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:56:22 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh 16:10:24 --- quit: nighty (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:31:34 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 16:33:45 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 16:36:24 --- quit: Zarutian (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:45:41 --- quit: byteflame (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 17:17:20 --- join: nighty (~nighty@d246113.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 17:29:12 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@c-71-238-242-230.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:35:31 --- quit: byteflame (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 17:36:35 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 17:44:33 --- join: byteflame (~byteflame@c-71-238-242-230.hsd1.ar.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:45:26 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.58.140) joined #forth 17:53:32 --- quit: byteflame (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 18:19:15 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 18:39:12 --- quit: ehaliewicz (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:44:20 --- nick: karswell` -> karswell 20:00:13 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 20:05:28 Vendan: I mean it's really hard (for me at least) to think of an efficient way of using non-indefinite storage in the dictionary, since as soon as you put something that you *want* to have indefinite extent in the storage, reclaiming the space of something placed in there earlier requires copying memory around 20:13:29 For example, if I want to have a variable-length string, I might save 10 bytes in the dictionary (4 for size, 6 for 6 characters). Then based on that string I do something that gets me another variable-length value, which I store in the dictionary. Now if I want to change the string to a 10-character value, how do I do that simply besides re-CREATE-ing that dictionary entry and using more memory? 20:13:51 without clobbering the newer value 20:16:30 I've heard the memory-allocation wordset described as "unforthlike", whatever that means (people seem to have a lot of different definitions), so I'm trying to see how far I can get without using it 20:20:16 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h62-133-162-235.static.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 21:10:16 --- quit: dys (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:10:37 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-1-226.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 21:52:56 --- quit: probonono (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 21:54:41 reepca, honestly it depends on what your app is supposed to do. If you're playing with a text editor than you're going to allocate a set of buffers and track usage - similar to a heap manager. Otherwise, for small things, I've found it best to treat strings as logically immutable. 22:04:04 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #forth 22:29:15 --- quit: nal1 (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 22:43:59 --- quit: probonono (Quit: Arrgh.. box crashing again!) 23:32:23 generally you'd stick it in a block buffer 23:48:29 progeusguy: immutable as in "once the value of a CREATEd word is set, it shall not be changed" or as in "the same buffer shall not house different strings at different times"? 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.08.01