00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.07.26 00:53:11 --- quit: nal (Quit: WeeChat 1.4) 01:06:19 --- join: dys (~dys@2003:5b:203b:100:6af7:28ff:fe06:801) joined #forth 01:28:32 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 02:00:13 --- quit: JDat (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:42:58 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.216.104) joined #forth 02:48:47 --- join: opollen (~opollen@184.203.153.95) joined #forth 02:50:27 --- quit: opollen (Remote host closed the connection) 02:58:26 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 03:04:49 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 04:34:38 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 04:35:11 --- join: karswell` (~user@179.63.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 04:39:39 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:45:58 --- quit: karswell` (Remote host closed the connection) 04:47:10 --- join: karswell` (~user@179.63.114.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 05:09:11 --- join: bedah (~bedah@dyndsl-037-138-053-063.ewe-ip-backbone.de) joined #forth 05:20:09 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 06:40:54 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 06:41:18 --- quit: bedah (Quit: Ex-Chat) 06:46:02 I think I need to make a Renesas RX based thing. For $10 in qtys of 1 you can get a 100MHz 32 bit microcontroller with 256kB of program memory and 128kB of SRAM, both zero-wait-state at max speed. 06:46:35 most instructions are single cycle, and there's an FPU and some DSP instructions 06:47:06 and an external bus with a pretty large number of chip select lines 06:48:31 oh and the DMA controller can talk to TFT panels 06:50:20 which one is that? 06:50:29 highest ram I see is 64 kB 06:52:46 I'm looking at RX63N / RX631, which goes up to 2MB of program memory and 256kB of RAM 06:53:11 There's another series that goes up to 4M/522k or so iirc 06:53:21 but those are pretty expensive 06:56:35 oh and it's quite CISC-y 06:57:17 dang, gets down to some decent package sizes too 06:57:54 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.51) joined #forth 06:58:01 I'm looking at LQFP100 which is big and easy to work with 06:59:06 yeah, but they've got down to LQFP48, which is pretty decent too 06:59:26 you lose a bit of ports, but meh 07:00:05 I just often see bga type stuff on the more impressive micro controllers 07:00:11 I need the bigger chip because I want the external bus for LCD and maybe other things. 07:00:33 yeah.. and fine pitch ones, too 07:00:44 I keep wanting to make my own smartwatch, so I look for small 07:00:53 7mm square is pretty decently small 07:01:06 I can't make boards with traces small enough to break out some of those BGAs 07:01:47 the inexpensive services (like OSH Park, my preferred option) are getting better, but 0.8mm BGA is about the limit it seems 07:01:56 7mm square, man.. :X 07:02:09 I want to build it around https://www.adafruit.com/products/1393 (a non-breakout version of, though) 07:02:23 only need 3 pins to drive it 07:02:34 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@49.229.157.30) joined #forth 07:02:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 07:02:50 and it's way low power 07:03:06 only needs power when you set the display 07:03:08 oh the memory LCDs, very cool 07:03:35 I looked at those briefly as I searched for a display I liked 07:03:36 and it can persist for a while without power 07:03:54 I'm just going to go TFT though. After days of evaluating other options... 07:04:06 Oh, does it actually fade? How long does that take? 07:07:13 you are supposed to toggle vcom periodically (once a second), and refresh data at least every 2 hours 07:07:55 that is not bad at all :) 07:09:23 yeah, even with a 1 second refresh (would be showing seconds), it's like 12 uW 07:10:57 how quickly can you update, like if you want to animate something? 07:15:23 it's got 50ms rise/fall times on the display 07:15:33 and it's basically as fast as you can shove data in 07:16:06 it's a 9216 bit memory 07:16:17 set the bit, display changes to match 07:16:32 but you have to change an entire line at once 07:16:43 you can't just change a single bit 07:17:48 it's interestingly modelled as similar to a 96 word ram kind of thing, with 96 bit words 07:18:34 huh neat 07:21:49 2mhz spi for loading data 07:21:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 07:21:58 so you can actually shove data in pretty darn fast 07:22:50 Yeah. Sounds like fun. 07:23:24 What do you plan on having for connectivity on your smartwatch? And sensors? 07:27:14 capsense based touch on the edges 07:27:32 currently leaning towards a fram based microcontroller 07:27:45 TI has some with capsense built in 07:27:54 not sure on connectivity yet 07:28:43 Ah good, this CPU has post-increment and pre-decrement register indirect addressing modes. I have what I need to efficiently implement a data stack. 07:28:57 yay FRAM 07:30:10 I want nordic semi 07:30:33 but it's really hard to find anything that's already ready to use based on theirs 07:30:50 and I don't have the skills to design a PCB with all the stuff nordic stuff needs 07:31:37 oh yeah, tiny and impedance controlled RF stuff... 07:31:56 to be fair, I've got almost no PCB skills, so that's why I'm trying to keep things contained 07:32:11 i.e. ram and flash in the microcontroller ic and such 07:33:07 don't want high speed traces on the PCB, cause I'll probably screw them up. goal for the lcd is to have the connecter directly next to the microcontroller, so I can keep it's traces next to non-existant 07:33:21 I used microchip's ISM RF module for something once. The documentation wasn't the greatest, but it worked. It has the same diagrams in it as a device made by someone else.. or maybe it's the other way around, I'm not sure. It had the lowest receive power of any RF module I could find, which was what I needed. 07:34:10 yeah onboard stuff is good 07:34:44 TI makes an msp430 with a radio built in, but I don't know if you can get it on a module for integration onto your own thing 07:34:58 also I don't think they have FRAM, which is too bad 07:35:25 there are a few other things around that I've seen that give bluetooth LE, and are basically "here's a chunk of pcb, solder it to your pcb with data and power, and don't put any traces under it" 07:35:38 which is what I'll probably have to do 07:37:01 right, that's the sort of module I'm thinking of 07:42:18 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@116.247.81.27) joined #forth 07:42:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 08:06:30 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 08:30:03 ugh, why :| 08:30:37 the flash for these devices grows down from FFFF_FFFFh 08:31:24 so if you get the 256k device, it's FFFC_0000h to FFFF_FFFFh 08:31:56 and bigger devices start at lower addresses 08:41:00 ohh, that's nasty :( 08:41:41 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 09:07:05 --- join: JDat (~JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 09:22:37 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 09:25:06 --- join: bb010g (uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-trpztinpbzmkwrrl) joined #forth 09:29:29 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-236-16.prtc.net) joined #forth 10:00:45 --- quit: JDat (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 10:33:16 --- nick: karswell` -> karswell 10:50:34 "The battery backup function enables the RTC and the sub-clock oscillator to continue operating with power supplied by the VBATT even when the voltage on the VCC pin is dropped. The RTC must be initialized only when the voltage on the VCC pin continues being dropped and power supply from the VBATT is stopped. But after both of them hung a VCC pin and a VBATT pin on 0V once when the voltage of VBATT was lower 10:50:36 than a guarantee area after changing to VBATT, please do a power-on-reset." 10:50:46 I, uh, ... hmm. 10:54:25 plz english thank you much 11:01:21 it is explained elsewhere, luckily 11:01:30 that little "summary" is pretty darn confusing though 11:27:39 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 11:43:26 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:26:18 --- join: dys (~dys@pD9EC6175.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 12:30:02 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 12:33:19 --- quit: JDat (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 12:34:31 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 12:43:08 --- quit: fiddlerwoaroof (Quit: Gone.) 12:56:32 There were good times for Forth on deskstop. MacForth. NeWS. http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/sun/NeWS/The_NeWS_Book_1989.pdf 13:00:25 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:31:25 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 13:52:45 LQFP100 is chunky enough to do at home, easily 14:10:10 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 14:33:19 re FRAM: it is pretty neat and I hope it replaces flash in micro controlers 14:33:37 there's fram based mcus 14:33:43 and they are really power efficient 14:33:51 and really impressive sleep states 14:35:37 so power efficient that the mcu can run off an small photovoltaic cell that is slightly bigger than the mcu package? 14:36:44 1 microamp standby 14:36:55 126 microamps/MHZ when active 14:37:10 at 3.3v or so 14:39:34 oh, that's the high power ones 14:40:01 the low power ones are 0.5/101.25 14:41:31 hmm... add a rather beefy (super-)capacitor and one got a rather longlived data logger. 15:10:52 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:38:02 --- quit: groovy2shoes (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:38:51 --- join: groovy2shoes (~groovy2sh@unaffiliated/groovebot) joined #forth 17:01:55 --- nick: reepca`` -> reepca 17:36:03 using the word IMMEDIATE after CREATE-ing a word makes the created word immediate, right? So if I made a defining word that uses CREATE and put IMMEDIATE inside the definition but before DOES>, then the created word would be immediate but not the defining word, right? 17:45:50 --- join: nal (~nal@adsl-64-237-236-16.prtc.net) joined #forth 18:10:28 yeah 18:16:26 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.51) joined #forth 18:20:59 and if an immediate word is defined to execute "postpone +", then when that word is used in a definition it should just compile + in there, right? 18:27:35 is there a preferred paste dump place, or is pastebin okay? 18:27:53 There's a little example that isn't acting how I'd expect 18:29:58 http://pastebin.com/JDJN1wCt 18:31:48 you are messing up your stack 18:32:05 it seems so 18:32:06 a create does> word pushes a value on the stack, that you never clear 18:32:12 OH 18:32:15 arg, i'm an idiot 18:32:19 change it to CREATE IMMEDIATE DOES> DROP POSTPONE + 18:32:24 and it should work better 18:32:34 thanks 18:41:16 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:43:19 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.51) joined #forth 18:43:49 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 19:40:11 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h62-133-162-146.static.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 19:42:31 --- join: nal1 (~nal@adsl-64-237-235-175.prtc.net) joined #forth 19:46:19 --- quit: nal (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 20:12:18 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 20:29:19 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 20:47:02 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20:52:05 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 20:54:23 gordonjcp: yeah big LQFP packages are no problem. All the decoupling caps and pull up/down resistors will be much more time consuming. 20:57:06 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 20:59:34 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@182.232.248.155) joined #forth 20:59:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 21:36:09 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:36:54 --- join: DGASAU (~user@lmpc.drb.insel.de) joined #forth 22:36:54 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:08:08 --- join: byteflame (~cpt@50.25.160.41) joined #forth 23:09:51 --- quit: byteflame (Client Quit) 23:10:09 --- join: byteflame (~cpt@50.25.160.41) joined #forth 23:11:47 --- quit: byteflame (Client Quit) 23:12:02 --- join: byteflame (~cpt@50.25.160.41) joined #forth 23:15:21 --- quit: gravicappa (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 23:16:40 --- quit: byteflame (Client Quit) 23:16:56 --- join: byteflame (~cpt@50.25.160.41) joined #forth 23:38:38 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 23:42:02 --- join: gravicappa (~gravicapp@h62-133-162-146.static.bashtel.ru) joined #forth 23:59:23 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.167.1.122) joined #forth 23:59:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.07.26