00:00:00 --- log: started forth/16.06.27 00:36:41 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@14.207.4.60) joined #forth 00:36:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 01:35:16 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 01:41:00 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.216.104) joined #forth 01:45:13 --- join: real-grue (~true-grue@176.14.216.104) joined #forth 01:47:52 --- quit: true-grue (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01:50:08 --- quit: bb010g (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 02:05:38 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 02:48:48 --- join: impomatic (~impomatic@20.122.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 02:49:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 03:19:49 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 03:24:21 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 03:27:01 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:35:29 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 03:42:42 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 03:43:22 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 03:44:42 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@182.232.166.33) joined #forth 03:44:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 03:47:36 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 03:48:35 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 04:28:39 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 04:29:27 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 04:29:34 --- join: nighty (~nighty@l203036.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) joined #forth 05:12:26 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 05:56:05 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:58:50 --- join: APic (apic@apic.name) joined #forth 05:59:35 --- quit: dram (Quit: dram) 05:59:48 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 05:59:58 --- join: dram (~Thunderbi@112.65.46.78) joined #forth 06:12:02 --- quit: dram (Quit: dram) 07:03:26 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@183.88.78.31) joined #forth 07:03:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 08:20:54 --- quit: real-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:24:03 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-207-249-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:33:37 --- quit: wa5qjh (Remote host closed the connection) 08:43:35 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 09:24:14 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 09:59:37 --- join: true-grue (~true-grue@176.14.216.104) joined #forth 10:14:35 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 10:32:51 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 10:42:51 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 10:50:52 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 10:58:07 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 10:59:12 --- quit: mnemnia (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:59:36 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 11:01:05 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11:11:31 --- join: bedah (~bedah@dyndsl-091-096-197-156.ewe-ip-backbone.de) joined #forth 11:56:53 --- join: Kumool (~kumool@adsl-64-237-239-217.prtc.net) joined #forth 12:29:38 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 12:30:54 --- join: karswell (~user@31.185.131.182) joined #forth 12:30:57 --- quit: mnemnia (Remote host closed the connection) 12:31:29 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 12:36:15 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 13:00:39 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 13:06:27 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 13:25:00 --- quit: guna (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 13:30:10 --- quit: bedah (Quit: Ex-Chat) 14:59:15 --- quit: true-grue (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15:01:25 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:08:56 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-2-114.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 15:14:58 Hi folks. 15:16:27 hio 15:16:27 Not to spam - and I have no affiliation with this project - but there is a very promising PIC32-based, crowdfunded "laptop" project that could use some support: https://www.crowdsupply.com/knivd/ello-2m/ 15:17:05 backer: so basically an mips pockettop? 15:17:26 As I have been working on the pic32 platform for some time, I am interested in seeing this come to light. 15:17:52 oh, it looks like Alan Kays Dynabook (at least the form factor) 15:18:26 Zarutian: Yup. It should also support RetroBSD (2.11BSD on PIC32MX microcontrollers) in the near future, if it doesn't already. 15:18:42 nitpick the <|> key between z and leftshift is missing 15:19:28 a normal keyboard has at least 111 keys not 101 keys 15:20:18 Apparently, at the highest level of support, the keyboard can be customized. 15:21:12 But yeah, that's the complaint I have about the Next Thing Co's PocketCHIP...the keyboard layout is a bit prohibitive for any kind of development on the go. 15:21:27 That's really cool. I'm in for a "geek." 15:22:19 Gracana: Cool! I went for the geek level as well. 15:22:26 I've wanted to do something just like that and never gotten around to it, and if I did it would cost about as much. So why not. :) 15:23:46 <3 mips 15:25:01 backer: probably easier than fignition's keyboard 15:25:15 Zarutian: reminded me of the Z88 more 15:25:37 The creator is around on the retrobsd.org forums... 15:25:43 here's the thread: http://retrobsd.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=37541 15:25:58 wonder what the minimum requirements for retrobsd are 15:25:58 oh huh I didn't notice that the assembly kit had the prototyping boards as well, I would have gotten that if I realized. 15:26:15 oh well, having it assembled is fine, it looks like they're doing a good job of that with their prototypes 15:26:16 I can hang a ridiculous amount of RAM off STM32s 15:26:30 hundreds of kilobytes 15:26:33 thousands even 15:26:55 How quickly can it access external memory like that? 15:27:00 Gracana: well, it will help with them reaching the target anyhow. :) 15:27:08 yeah 15:27:25 gordonjcp: 128KB SRAM on PIC32MX795 or similar 15:27:49 and there's "LiteBSD" which is basic 4.4BSD on the PIC32MZ series (512KB SRAM) 15:29:00 backer: you'd never fill 512kB 15:29:09 I have two of these: http://blog.nextthing.co/timeline/pocketc-h-i-p-time-machine/ 15:30:23 based on C.H.I.P., a $9 SBC based on an Allwinner ARM7-based board: https://getchip.com/pages/chip 15:31:05 I never found the CHIP all that interesting, it looks too cumbersome to use 15:31:16 supposedly will be $9...prototypes have been solid, running Debian 15:31:26 that is pretty darn impressive 15:31:38 Gracana: there is a lot of competition, too 15:34:10 so what's the layout of the prototyping area on that thing? 15:35:09 Gracana: which one, the PocketCHIP? Or ELLO? 15:35:52 the ELLO 15:36:08 maybe I should log in and see what I have access to 15:36:09 The PocketCHIP has some concealed proto area, but it's only enough for a few discrete components. The ELLO has a matrix which is probably enough for a few logic chips... 15:37:06 Claims up to 1156 holes...looks to be split into quadrants 15:38:23 I would like to set up some IO there. 10 pins: common, 0:8 IO bits, power. Switch for internal or external IO power. Also a serial port, and maybe a port for analog IO. 15:39:29 I like the idea of a standalone platform for hardware tinkering. 15:39:58 --- quit: JDat (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:41:33 oh man, only two weeks left 15:42:02 I wonder who I can sucker into buying one 15:43:36 Gracana: Yeah. Unlike CHIP, this one is not being made possible through collaboration with the chip vendor, AFAIK. But I think the aesthetics and prototyping space can make it killer. And I'm biased because I already use that chip. :) 15:45:45 yeah, those are the things I like about it 15:46:07 I tweeted about it. No tags, just hoping one or two of my nerdy followers might pick it up. 16:04:28 Hmm. I can't find a list of I/O, only a demo video of the prototyping space: https://www.crowdsupply.com/knivd/ello-2m/updates/2255 16:14:08 it's four buses surrounding a vertical strip connected area that's split horizontally in two places (imagine a breadboard with two center channels) 16:35:48 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 16:36:20 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@152.179.131.166) joined #forth 16:38:18 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 16:40:21 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 16:41:55 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 17:36:12 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8103:f9d0:212e:bfa7:dcbe:ae6c) joined #forth 17:36:17 --- join: dram (~Thunderbi@112.65.46.78) joined #forth 17:40:47 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 17:46:04 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 17:50:56 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@203.111.224.39) joined #forth 17:51:38 ah I just watched the ello video, there's a card edge connector that the proto board fits into. That's nice. 17:52:39 oh wait there's a video on that part specifically, and I might be wrong about it 17:54:45 oh there's a header on top, I see. 18:02:39 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 18:10:12 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-84-0-215.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 18:22:02 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 18:22:39 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8103:f9d0:212e:bfa7:dcbe:ae6c) joined #forth 18:26:48 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:40:40 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 18:47:59 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-0-202.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 18:56:23 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:643:8103:f9d0:915e:5675:d38c:626f) joined #forth 19:12:56 i would be very happy if someone could get a bare-metal forth on a CHIP - mine shipped and are on the way 19:13:21 though after backing them the raspberry pi zero came out - though they're pretty hard to come by 19:13:57 a $5 rpi is better than a $9 CHIP unless I can find a reason to prefer the CHIP 19:14:25 what kind of processor does a CHIP have? 19:16:14 http://docs.getchip.com/chip.html#physical-connectors 19:16:52 i'm trying to find something more detailed 19:17:06 http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-r/cortex-r8-processor.php maybe? 19:18:33 arm cortex r8 i think 19:18:36 ah yes 19:18:54 hrm. actually it's http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/clq/R_series/2015/0514/R8.html 19:19:25 https://github.com/NextThingCo/CHIP-Hardware/ 19:19:29 ^ has some pdfs 19:19:36 i would really like a literatly commented asm forth - mostly just the inner/outer interp - to start with. 19:19:43 i wonder if the allwell one is a clone of the arm one? 19:19:57 i tried (and to date failed - gave up a while ago due to time) to write my owm arm asm forth 19:20:41 dunno about ARM ASM, but there's probably a c version of retro's vm (which is basically an inner interpreter) 19:21:16 i want bare-metal forths though. i'm stalled (due to time/interest) a bare metal x86 boot-sector to hardware forth too. got stuck on a bug after porting/mergeing with jonesforth 19:21:32 but had a basic keyboard and video driver going that worked insude of qemu 19:21:54 oh i see. the allwinner R8 thing is the ARM R8 + GPU + camera/memory... so i guess sort of like a motherboard or SIC? 19:21:59 and at the same time i was porting jonesforth from att to intel syntax and may have been (?) upgrading it to 64bits - but later found another project that did that 19:22:20 i'm not sure which is in the CHIP 19:22:24 yourforth probably 19:23:01 i prefer asm forths because i'm on a low-level/retro kick and also a small/lean kick 19:23:18 for no legit reason other than "because" and for the fun of it 19:24:01 iirc i was going to use a c version of an inner compiler to then modify the output asm to try and debug my failed arm (stm32) project 19:24:24 that's cool. but the inner interpreter is pretty much a black box and a nice abstraction layer over whatever's underneath so you can start with pretty much any forth if you just want to play around, and then replace the inner loop later. 19:24:24 but i wind up with too many possible paths to take and get sidetracked by other interests. le sigh. 19:26:02 well part of the fun is understanding in depth how it ticks 19:26:38 i understand completely. :) 19:26:45 that was the fun going back to asm as well. it wasn't (obvious in retrospect) for the efficiency of development :) 20:35:36 --- quit: wa5qjh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:36:33 --- join: wa5qjh (~Thunderbi@121.54.58.133) joined #forth 20:51:34 --- quit: Kumool (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:03:48 bluekelp: that's the problem with hobby projects 22:04:07 there is are no constraints, just what you want to focus on 22:04:22 which is my eternal problem 22:05:19 but also why I like forth... if I want the system to be of my own making from soup to nuts, it's at least somewhat possible :) 22:07:24 and on that note, I, uh, have my ALU and internal buses roughed out and I'm working on instruction decoding now 22:08:27 I'm using the yosys+icestorm toolchain for the lattice ice40. That's about as close to the ideal as I can get without spending stupid money. 22:12:35 hoping to fit a 32 bit stack machine in one of the bigger chips, with 5x6 bit opcodes in a 32 bit instruction word, with flags at the end to specify jump/call/5x6 format, and a unext instruction for looping within the instruction in the style of the greenarrays nodes 22:12:59 it is a great way to learn a lot but not a great way to make progress... 22:49:15 Gracana: what's your project? 22:49:30 Gracana: have you checked the "from nand to tetris" course? 23:36:45 --- join: leaverite (~Thunderbi@112.198.90.219) joined #forth 23:38:21 --- quit: wa5qjh (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 23:38:22 --- nick: leaverite -> wa5qjh 23:40:33 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 23:56:22 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/16.06.27