00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.11.11 01:02:28 --- join: impomatic (~impomatic@42.147.189.80.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 01:06:26 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 01:49:29 --- quit: Bahman (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:50:20 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@5.238.159.115) joined #forth 01:50:52 --- quit: atommann (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:57:03 --- quit: asagk (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 02:01:20 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@c-73-220-86-28.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:01:47 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 02:10:09 --- join: asagk (~asagk@i59F6B754.versanet.de) joined #forth 02:24:55 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@14.127.26.171) joined #forth 02:28:49 --- join: true-grue (~grue@176.14.216.104) joined #forth 02:29:20 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Ave atque vale) 02:35:39 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-4.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 02:35:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 02:41:46 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 03:24:30 --- quit: Guest90777 (Changing host) 03:24:30 --- join: Guest90777 (~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber) joined #forth 03:24:34 --- nick: Guest90777 -> JX7P 03:42:04 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 03:43:55 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-68-40-49-135.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:47:16 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@14.20.6.167) joined #forth 03:48:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:08:39 --- quit: bjorkintosh (Quit: Leaving) 04:14:15 --- join: bjorkintosh (~bjork@ip70-185-232-160.ok.ok.cox.net) joined #forth 05:49:03 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:51:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:400:c002:5300:e51a:5ea4:7ff6:21a) joined #forth 06:00:43 --- join: tankfeeder (~Mike@193.178.177.61) joined #forth 06:01:03 --- part: tankfeeder left #forth 06:08:38 --- quit: JX7P (*.net *.split) 06:12:59 --- join: IRIXUser (~IRIX@2001:41d0:8:791d::1) joined #forth 06:12:59 --- quit: IRIXUser (Changing host) 06:12:59 --- join: IRIXUser (~IRIX@freebsd/user/kastengraeber) joined #forth 06:13:28 --- nick: IRIXUser -> JX7P 06:27:44 --- join: true-grue_ (~grue@176.14.216.104) joined #forth 06:29:23 --- join: beretta (~beretta@cpe-65-185-42-203.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #forth 06:30:18 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:30:46 --- quit: true-grue (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 06:30:53 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:400:c002:5300:e51a:5ea4:7ff6:21a) joined #forth 06:36:30 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-4.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 06:36:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 07:08:46 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 07:24:57 Zarutian, I have implemented cryptographic algorithms in Forth among them is the Zero-Knowledge Proof ( using discrete logs) http://hub.darcs.net/pointfree/forth-crypt 07:27:57 ...currently working on using forth-crypt with Lehs' arbitrary-precision arithmetic library: https://github.com/Lehs/BIG-INTEGER-ANS-FORTH 07:30:04 --- part: mtsd left #forth 07:32:27 --- join: xyh (~cicada@14.127.26.171) joined #forth 07:35:07 Lehs' bignum library seems to be the most feature complete Forth bignum library at the moment and the most useful for cryptography. 07:49:16 do we next see on amforth? :) 07:49:38 the real crypt I mean 07:55:07 Lehs' bignum has been working great for me. Lehs claims it is rather fast ...although I haven't benchmarked it yet. I've just started porting it to amforth and mecrisp-stellaris. 07:55:58 >16bit crypto is on its way!! 07:56:08 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 07:56:21 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 08:08:40 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-80.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 08:08:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 08:09:48 --- join: proteusguy__ (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-80.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 08:16:48 --- join: rpcope1- (~rpcope1@c-73-169-98-169.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:17:29 --- quit: rpcope1 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:17:32 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:17:34 --- join: proteusguy_ (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-80.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 08:33:11 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-68-37-169-152.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:54:40 --- quit: xyh (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [SeaMonkey 2.38/20151005122910]) 08:55:12 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@14.127.26.171) joined #forth 09:49:32 ( Just asked Lehs about licensing of his bignum library ) 09:55:09 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:55:56 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 09:59:08 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@14.127.26.171) joined #forth 10:18:57 --- join: python476 (56469e86@gateway/web/freenode/ip.86.70.158.134) joined #forth 10:36:00 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144233051.atnat0042.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 10:48:25 --- quit: xyh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:07:45 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:17:16 --- quit: python476 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:21:10 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144211033.atnat0020.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 11:24:39 --- join: mat4 (~claude@ip5b40a018.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 11:24:41 hello 11:54:07 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@14.127.26.171) joined #forth 12:31:21 hi xyh 12:31:41 what's up ? 12:33:08 working on a microcode engine 12:33:23 at current 12:34:19 oh a random hi :) 12:35:27 you still developing your concatenative language, right ? 12:36:24 yes 12:39:08 I think I know how to bring a dependent type system to my language now. 12:39:35 oh, what kind of dependent type system have you in mind ? 12:39:56 do you know agda or idris ? 12:40:35 I've studied idris some time ago 12:41:29 roughly like the dependent-type system of idris :) 12:42:56 I have experimental syntax examples here :: https://github.com/cicada-language/cicada-language/blob/master/test/list.cl 12:44:20 forth + dependent-type + local variable + pattern match + whitespace indentation to delimit blocks 12:44:31 let me give a moment for reading please 12:46:41 or idris [or agda] with postfix notation, and syntax optimized for function composition [instead of function application] 12:47:30 ok, like Idris your type system evaluate on variable binding (greedy, alias eager evaluation) 12:48:29 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 12:48:35 yes, eager is the natural way to do so. 12:49:00 and the syntax is not even fixed yet, so it is a bit too early to discuss about my little language :P 12:49:39 but I do experiments on syntax in this way. 12:51:40 I am learning lattice theory and subtyping now, it seems very hard to add good subtyping to type system like haskell, agda, idris ... 12:52:30 if it is too hard, I will give up this feature. 12:53:07 I do not even have a job now, it is full time fun :) 12:53:58 can you explain that a bit more precise ? I don't see why it should be hard to define subtypes in the languages you noticed, 12:54:16 however probably my understanding of a subtype differ from yours 12:55:05 how do you understand subtype ? 12:56:06 IMO, if type is encoded by interface functions (like in OO), subtype is easy to implement 12:56:37 subtype as range limitation of a given type 12:57:24 and yes, in object oriented languages that's easy because uniform 12:57:46 and then how do you encoded a range of a given type ? 12:58:34 languages like Nim have a range keyword for this: 12:58:56 type tSubtype : range [min..max] 12:59:57 Pascal: type subtype : min..max; 13:00:28 not all type can be ranged, only for types like 'number' [or types with order] 13:01:03 yes, that's the limitation 13:01:38 however it is possible to use records (structures) for more abstact type formats 13:02:07 which lead to the object-oriented approach 13:02:15 (in one way or another) 13:04:10 in ATS subtypes can be declared formal which is general applicable 13:04:24 ATS? 13:05:22 http://www.ats-lang.org/ 13:06:22 it is the actual most advanced member of the ML family in my opinion 13:07:12 (it is also one of the most complex programming languages for sure) 13:09:24 I see Hongwei Xi there, I think I just saw this name this morning ! 13:10:36 it is :: Dependent Types in Practical Programming, Hongwei Xi, September 30th, 1998 13:10:46 a paper :) 13:10:48 xyh: it rings a faint bell. 13:11:21 Zarutian: why the bell is faint ? 13:11:53 xyh: because I dont remember the association other than doing something with types. 13:13:02 * Zarutian doesnt follow data typing and such stuff that much. 13:13:31 hi Zarutian 13:13:43 mat4: ATS looks cool :) I still have too much to learn 13:13:44 h'lo mat4 13:15:44 Zarutian: I care about type because type can be viewed as theorem and function body can be viewed as proof. 13:16:35 xyh: Probably it is better to follow a more .. taoistic approach to programming than consume academic wisdom 13:16:45 xyh: perhaps I am too much influenced by actual hardware (I have read a lot about early computers and their ideas) 13:22:13 Zarutian: there exist some quite interesting, early hardware designs like the F8 CPU, do you know that design ? 13:22:52 mat4: it was by Chuck Moore or am I confusing it with F18? 13:23:23 yes, it was a design from Fairchild 13:24:10 prior to 6502? (I read somewhere that some F8 ideas influnced that chip) 13:24:21 yes for sure 13:25:01 prior to CDC 4000? but later than the A Binary Computer (colliqually called the ABC machine)? 13:25:42 sorry, I don't know. The CPU was sold somewhere around 1978 I guess 13:26:37 so younger than IBM 360 series I would gather 13:27:32 it was special in only exposing a control bus which was used for synchronisation of dedicated special processors which for example handling access to external memory 13:28:05 so the CPU itself had no address bus 13:29:24 how did it fetch instructions then? 13:31:55 the content of one processor register can be used as program counter. Its value is then exposed to the control bus and fetched be the external address bus. This circuit fetch the next instruction, increment an internal counter and address the data bus of the F8 CPU 13:32:50 eh, sorry I mean the content of the control bus is fetched by the external unit 13:33:09 sounds rather complicated and has issues with latency 13:34:18 it worked quite well because all these was done in between clock rises 13:34:46 (memory access was quite low thouse days) 13:36:56 memory wasnt as cheap as it is today 13:37:04 (at least not in bulk) 13:37:12 yes 13:38:08 you can see a somewhat related idea implemented in the Parallax Propeller (hub access) 13:38:49 now one could do much more with many processors that are similiar to the SPUs in Playstation 2. 13:41:18 I think there is always some kind of latency because out needed synchronisation. The question is how that letency can be efficient hided 13:41:34 ^latency 13:42:13 For the GA144 for example, efficiency depend on intelligent routing 13:43:11 Intel uses a ringbus (+ protocol) for there massive multicore CPU's 13:43:50 well with something like Flow Based Programming on top of the CPUs+wram units. 13:44:41 (each CPU or core has it own small working memory) 13:47:30 thats my point. For such CPU design access efficiency depends on the compiler 13:49:11 where for such old architectures like the F8 it is an inherent aspect of the hardware architecture 13:51:27 exploiting RAM access timings 13:52:21 which allows asynchron behaviour 13:53:07 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 13:54:56 --- quit: mat4 (Quit: leaving) 14:03:43 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 14:06:28 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 14:07:29 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 14:32:12 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:39:55 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-44-182-54.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 14:42:08 --- quit: Frek (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:50:05 --- join: Frek (~fredrik@traktor.sonixwave.com) joined #forth 15:03:49 --- quit: nighty^_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:04:04 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@www.taiyolabs.com) joined #forth 15:17:29 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 15:17:42 --- join: ASau (~user@netbsd/developers/asau) joined #forth 15:30:44 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@204.38.4.81) joined #forth 15:31:32 --- quit: phadthai (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:36:33 --- quit: true-grue_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:44:54 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 15:49:18 --- join: phadthai (mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net) joined #forth 16:41:40 --- join: gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) joined #forth 16:56:02 --- quit: gabriel_laddel (Remote host closed the connection) 17:32:36 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8C4B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 17:33:13 --- quit: MickyW (Client Quit) 18:29:08 --- join: atommann (~atommann@210.3.149.230) joined #forth 19:21:33 --- join: bb010g (uid21050@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vtashhbqzfayyoli) joined #forth 19:40:24 --- quit: impomatic (Remote host closed the connection) 20:14:05 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:400:8000:3da0:715b:a6b6:f51f:15d0) joined #forth 20:25:36 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:26:12 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-68-40-49-135.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:27:07 --- quit: atommann (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20:28:31 --- join: atommann (~atommann@210.3.149.230) joined #forth 21:15:34 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 21:44:32 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@46.62.172.163) joined #forth 22:13:31 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 22:15:32 --- quit: atommann (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:17:52 --- join: Bahman_ (~Bahman@46.62.172.163) joined #forth 22:18:29 --- quit: Bahman (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:20:17 --- nick: Bahman_ -> Bahman 22:25:37 --- join: atommann (~atommann@210.3.149.230) joined #forth 23:04:45 --- join: xyh (~cicada@14.127.26.171) joined #forth 23:28:23 --- quit: xyh (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [SeaMonkey 2.38/20151005122910]) 23:39:48 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.138.178) joined #forth 23:39:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.11.11