00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.10.24 00:10:00 most forth these days wouldn't be forths according to chuck moore. 00:10:57 too big, too complicated 00:11:05 and probably according to the forth inc. chuck's forths aren't forths as they aren't ans forth conforming 00:11:28 JohnEarnest, probably also what you wrote ;-) 00:12:19 I mean we are talking about a guy who wrote a chip design system in a hex editor before he rewrote it in his own forth system again. 00:12:39 well, I've done a number of forth interpreters of varying levels of complexity; don't think I've ever come anywhere close to ANS compliance though 00:14:48 I feel like having create...does> is kinda important to consider something a "full" forth but colorforth veers off in its own totally different direction with different extension mechanisms 00:17:19 'night folks 00:17:34 night 00:17:41 --- quit: JohnEarnest (Quit: JohnEarnest) 00:30:27 --- join: true-grue (~grue@176.14.218.33) joined #forth 02:11:00 --- quit: xyh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:11:31 --- join: xyh (~xyh@14.153.27.203) joined #forth 02:57:10 --- quit: aftershave (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 04:24:38 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 04:36:00 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:41:12 --- join: kulp (kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 05:26:31 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 06:40:01 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-236-45.prtc.net) joined #forth 07:17:30 --- nick: xyh -> xyw 07:24:55 --- join: JohnEarnest (~rodgerthe@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 07:41:17 --- nick: xyw -> xyh 07:45:03 JohnEarnest: I am thinking of making some devices as cute as wikireader :) 07:45:21 cool! 07:47:15 sold only as hand made cute thing, with all home invented techs 07:47:34 sounds extremely forthy 07:49:44 atommann is not here today, I learn how to make things from him :) 07:53:05 I'm a fan of Rossum's work: http://rossumblog.com 08:02:35 It's funny how people boast of software based on FICL... 08:07:46 JohnEarnest: I have to finish my language design first :) the type system takes me so long. it now looks like 'agda with RPN in a simpler version of org-mode' 08:08:01 haha 08:12:34 I am not sure how the VM will fit small chip with tiny memory, because it requires two hash-tables, to implement something like the symbol of lisp. 08:12:40 but I will try 08:14:04 JohnEarnest: star my repo and stay tuned :: https://github.com/cicada-language/cicada-language 08:14:06 :P 08:25:24 With some effort JVM fits 32K of memory. 08:25:28 JFYI. 08:45:30 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 08:51:43 32k is not "tiny memory", heh 08:53:59 --- quit: kumul (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:54:29 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-236-45.prtc.net) joined #forth 08:54:46 oh! 32k would be hard enough for me to port the VM. 08:55:36 certainly, but it is very big ram for many (deeply) embedded systems 08:57:32 yeah, it's true. so maybe embedded system is not the field I would involved too much. 08:58:17 I will just use forth when playing with embedded system :) 08:58:42 --- quit: kumul (Client Quit) 08:59:37 I play with amforth on AVR last week 09:08:52 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:10:31 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8C610.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 09:19:38 --- quit: xyh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:22:18 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 10:47:06 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-236-45.prtc.net) joined #forth 11:02:39 --- join: xyh (~xyh@14.153.27.203) joined #forth 11:03:05 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 11:07:51 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 11:18:11 --- join: Mat4 (~hotelgast@p5099b706.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 11:18:14 hello 11:22:57 h'lo Mat4 11:23:19 hi Zarutian 11:23:29 been thinking about tagged values in memory and on stacks. 11:24:14 tag as type-tag ? 11:24:17 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11:24:24 Tags being "instruction" "call"/"return"/"branch target" and such 11:24:24 how do you want to implement tagging ? 11:24:46 part of memory cells (have four bits extra ber cell) 11:24:54 s/ber/per/ 11:25:43 a cell in function body has 4 bits type-tag ? 11:26:19 pretty much implement safeLite from http://www.crash-safe.org/assets/fatptr_ccs2013.pdf but using dual stack machine instead of RISC arch 11:26:26 hmm, a traditional Lisp approach I think 11:27:09 I think 28 bit cells with the remaining 4 bits available for tags would still be plenty for most applications 11:27:45 the types would be enforced on the hardware level and hence be rather simple. 11:27:52 The PicoLisp interpreter reserve some bits for tagging atom formats 11:28:20 if you have tag bits on everything to distinguish pointer from non-pointer it is really, really easy to implement precise garbage collectors 11:28:21 for instance trying to execute something else than "instruction" or "call" would result in a fault 11:28:29 JohnEarnest: yeb 11:30:16 Zarutian: what data formats do you differentiate ? 11:30:21 JohnEarnest: also makes implementing object-capabilties access control extremely easy. (Not doing pointer arithmetic by usual ALU instructions but by specialized PointerUnit makes the pointers unforable) 11:30:42 yeah 11:31:02 and clearly doing something like dividing number by a pointer makes no sense 11:32:01 Mat4: the aforesaid "instruction", "call"/"return"/"branch target" pointers, "integer"/"datum" singular values and per haps some others that would act like NaN does in Floating Point calculations. 11:33:04 and do you have a hardware or software implementation in mind ? 11:33:13 Mat4: so the list of types would be explict. 11:33:59 Mat4: the afore linked low-fat ptr in hardware (or fpga logicware) 11:40:29 interesting project, I look forward to see your implementation 11:43:31 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-171.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 11:43:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 11:44:35 however, I'm unsure if a hardware implementation is preferable 12:26:49 --- part: Mat4 left #forth 13:00:07 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 13:11:12 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144198180.atnat0007.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 14:23:25 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 14:49:43 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 14:57:00 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-234-152.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:25:51 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:06:56 --- quit: TodPunk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:07:14 --- join: TodPunk (Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 17:10:28 --- quit: JohnEarnest (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17:17:20 --- join: JohnEarnest (~rodgerthe@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 17:18:29 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 20:14:52 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:14:52 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:31:51 --- join: proteusguy__ (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-230-19.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 20:31:54 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-230-19.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 20:31:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 21:09:55 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 21:15:52 --- quit: asagk (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:23:08 --- join: xyh (~xyh@14.153.27.203) joined #forth 21:30:30 --- join: asagk (~asagk@i59F6D4B2.versanet.de) joined #forth 21:44:42 --- quit: backer (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:44:49 --- join: backer (~backer@cowbell.employees.org) joined #forth 22:11:33 --- quit: JohnEarnest (Quit: JohnEarnest) 22:55:39 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 23:12:54 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:13:57 --- join: karswell` (~user@121.212.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.10.24