00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.09.14 00:04:42 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 00:08:48 --- join: tankfeeder (~Mike@193.178.177.61) joined #forth 00:09:25 --- part: tankfeeder left #forth 00:51:19 --- join: xyh (~xyh@183.16.2.98) joined #forth 01:04:03 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 01:22:45 --- join: probonono (~User@ppp103-111.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 01:22:45 --- quit: probonono (Changing host) 01:22:45 --- join: probonono (~User@unaffiliated/probonono) joined #forth 01:31:31 --- join: impomatic (~impomatic@212.159.126.45) joined #forth 01:41:09 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 02:10:25 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Ave atque vale) 02:17:52 --- join: xyh (~xyh@183.39.239.152) joined #forth 03:00:01 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.245.129.118) joined #forth 03:03:41 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 03:38:26 --- join: xyh (~xyh@183.39.239.152) joined #forth 04:10:38 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@183.89.211.145) joined #forth 04:10:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 04:29:52 --- quit: carc (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:33:08 --- quit: asagk (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 04:41:35 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 04:42:52 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p57A2F506.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 04:45:43 --- join: asagk (~asagk@i59F6C19D.versanet.de) joined #forth 05:09:18 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 05:13:51 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-68-40-58-223.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:39:06 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-235-143.prtc.net) joined #forth 05:45:50 --- quit: Zarutian (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 05:47:52 --- join: BitPuffin (~usefulPro@host217-41-32-21.in-addr.btopenworld.com) joined #forth 05:52:05 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend/leaving) 05:57:58 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 06:30:28 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 06:31:04 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@91.98.223.109) joined #forth 06:46:16 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 06:46:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-68-40-58-223.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:12:37 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Ave atque vale) 07:20:28 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 07:36:55 --- join: xyh (~xyh@183.16.2.98) joined #forth 07:37:49 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 07:43:36 BitPuffin: good doc takes too much time to write, here are simple examples :: https://www.refheap.com/109508 07:43:41 --- join: _spt_ (~jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 07:44:23 xyh: cool I'll take a look! 07:51:10 --- join: proteusguy_ (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-133.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 07:58:11 xyh: hmm so >: can be attached to any word? 07:58:21 doesn't that make parsing a whole lot more complicated? 07:59:10 also it is not clear to me what your different memory allocation functions mean 08:05:40 >:variable is one word 08:05:52 :variable is one word 08:07:56 such special word is implemented by syntax extension 08:08:59 hm 08:11:26 I have 08:11:27 local-memory-even-area:*current-free-address* 08:11:27 local-memory-odd-area:*current-free-address* 08:11:27 globally allocated 08:11:32 the return-stack stores return-points 08:11:33 one return-point have 4 value : 08:11:39 | conjugate-local-memory | 08:11:39 | local-memory | 08:11:42 | local-variable | 08:11:45 | function-body | 08:11:59 father have 08:11:59 | local-memory | even | 08:12:00 | conjugate-local-memory | odd | 08:12:00 son have 08:12:02 | local-memory | odd | 08:12:06 | conjugate-local-memory | even | 08:12:11 you see the trick ? 08:12:52 the interface are just two functions : 08:12:56 allocate-conjugate-local-memory 08:12:59 allocate-local-memory 08:13:26 I don't think I follow at all :P 08:13:58 maybe you need to start a bit more concrete with what you're solving and how 08:14:54 what's the difference between conjuagate local memory and just local memory 08:15:03 I don't think I have enough context :) 08:16:51 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 08:17:21 in a call to (father), if use (allocate-local-memory) it takes a size (with byte as unit) and returns a address 08:17:37 if this address is in local-memory-even-area:*current-free-address* 08:17:57 then in the body of (father), it calls (son) 08:18:08 if use (allocate-local-memory) in (son) 08:18:24 returns an address in local-memory-odd-area:*current-free-address* 08:19:29 [I want (son) be able to return a block of memory to (father)] 08:21:56 if I only have one local-memory-area, and one interface function (allocate-local-memory), then (son) can not return a block of memory to (father). 08:22:50 why not? 08:22:58 can't it just put the address on the stack? 08:23:26 because (father) may also call (allocate-local-memory) 08:23:46 yeah which will push another pointer to the stack :P 08:24:19 when (son) returns, the local-memory is freed 08:24:50 [auto freed] 08:25:47 if (son) use (allocate-local-memory), the memory allocated is auto freed on exit. 08:25:47 if (son) use (allocate-conjugate-local-memory), the memory allocated is not auto freed on exit. 08:26:18 and thus can be returnd to (father) 08:26:52 (son) calling (allocate-conjugate-local-memory) just as (father) calling (allocate-local-memory) 08:28:22 all those parens, is this lisp? :-P 08:28:43 I think he's using it to distinguish regular talk from programming talk 08:30:12 xyh: okay so allocate-conjugate-local-memory just means that you're allocating memory that won't be autofreed on exit 08:37:05 actually I had written some Chinese doc last night, I translate it into English for you now. 08:37:36 [I do not have any Chinese reader actually] 08:37:39 >_< 08:38:20 haha 08:38:25 well I guess it's notes for yourself 08:39:48 I wish I chould gain some Chinese readers, but I have not. 08:39:59 * could 08:40:16 shamely so 08:40:59 don't you know any other programmers in china? 08:43:54 most of them do not understand what I am talk about. 08:44:14 I see 08:44:24 because they aren't forth inclined :P 08:44:27 maybe they just do not care. 08:45:03 maybe I know so few programmers, anyway ~~~ 08:45:44 I wonder if there's a good place online for discussing programming crap in chinese 08:46:29 aren't there like 08:46:33 multiple chinese languages :P 08:47:37 I know too little about china 08:48:00 anyway 08:48:03 the doc is section by section, 08:48:03 I want to add the English translation as a new section, just below its Chinese version. 08:48:03 would it be ok to you ? 08:48:29 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-133.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 08:48:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 08:48:52 xyh: you should probably make them separate pages entirely 08:48:54 BitPuffin: or you would rather to see a clean English doc ? 08:49:00 like one english version and one chinese version 08:49:06 of the website 08:49:16 though I realize that's probably slightly more challenging to maintain 08:49:17 ok 08:55:56 --- join: kumul (~mool@64.237.234.87) joined #forth 08:57:37 --- quit: yiyus (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 08:58:03 what's the time now, in your city ? 09:01:25 woah, thats oddly specific 09:01:32 do you know the time in your city xyh ? 09:02:16 i mean, i know the time in my timezone, but in my city? 09:04:32 a city is in a timezone ~ 09:05:40 xyh: 17:05 09:06:33 --- join: yiyus (1242712427@je.je.je) joined #forth 09:07:13 xyh: is it like 12:06 for you? 09:07:23 apparently that's the time in beijing 09:12:16 xyh: I noticed that your license for the language is all rights reserved 09:12:55 at least on the website 09:12:58 in the github repo it's different 09:18:24 I ll change the license about the web later 09:18:56 I wish I can finish the translation in 1 hour 09:20:16 cool 09:20:21 I think I'm heading home in roughly 1h and 40m 09:23:01 back home after work ? 09:24:33 yep 09:25:47 I know some people who only use IRC at work ... 09:26:18 well I do use it at home too 09:26:32 just that I'm probably not checking much it cuz I'm gonna be doing other things 09:44:25 --- join: proteusguy__ (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-99.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 09:45:55 --- quit: proteusguy_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09:46:01 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 09:58:38 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-99.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 09:58:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 10:01:27 BitPuffin: stay tuned when you get back :) 10:04:31 xyh: :) 10:05:10 xyh: when do you think it'll be done? 10:07:26 --- join: proteusguy_ (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-51.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 10:09:07 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:09:11 --- quit: proteusguy__ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 10:26:04 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-51.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 10:26:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 10:27:19 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144211009.atnat0020.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 10:40:55 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 10:51:52 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 11:01:45 BitPuffin: I am still translating, this is a snapshot :: http://xieyuheng.github.io/note/computation/cicada-language/cicada-nymph-note/show-all.html 11:03:44 chinese english is dialect of english used in china 11:03:45 o_O 11:03:56 never heard of that 11:10:22 just a joke 11:10:51 ah haha 11:14:07 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 11:18:10 --- quit: darkf (Quit: Leaving) 11:20:03 --- join: aftershave (~textual@h-137-26.a336.priv.bahnhof.se) joined #forth 11:23:56 xyh: I've read a little bit of it 11:24:01 but I'll probably have to continue tomorrow 11:24:08 by then you'll probably have gotten further too :) 11:27:03 yeah, see you tomorrow 11:27:49 do you dislike my english style yet ? 11:27:59 so called "style" ~ 11:28:27 xyh: nah I don't dislike it, it's a bit hard to understand sometimes maybe but it's not your fault since it's far from your native tongue 11:28:36 I mean english isn't native for me either 11:28:39 but it could just as well be 11:29:38 mark the hard to understanded part, I ll improve 11:30:31 you mean in your docs or when you write something? 11:31:02 you can create issues here :: https://github.com/xieyuheng/xieyuheng.github.io/issues 11:31:34 isn't it better to do it in the cicada repo? 11:32:48 this doc is in http://xieyuheng.github.io , not merged to cicada's web site yet. 11:32:52 but both ok 11:33:05 well I was thinking since it/s related to the language project 11:34:16 or email me: xyheme@gmail.com 11:36:30 well we're also both here a lot of the time 11:36:32 but anyway 11:36:33 moff 11:36:35 nice talking to y'all 11:42:35 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 11:43:27 --- quit: BitPuffin (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:02:05 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: leaving) 12:02:22 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@www.taiyolabs.com) joined #forth 12:15:33 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 12:39:07 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:39:21 --- join: xyh (~xyh@183.16.2.98) joined #forth 12:42:20 I finished the "* dynamic memory allocation" section :) 12:42:36 tangentstorm: give me a review if you have time :) 12:47:48 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 12:50:25 --- join: xyh- (~xyh@183.16.2.98) joined #forth 12:51:04 --- quit: xyh- (Remote host closed the connection) 12:54:48 --- join: xyh_ (~xyh@183.16.2.98) joined #forth 12:54:55 --- nick: xyh_ -> xyh 12:58:27 i don't right now but i'll try to remember. 12:58:37 :) 12:58:49 make an issue on github and assign it to me if you want 12:59:07 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b40b95e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 12:59:42 @tangentstorm in an issue and you will get notice ? 13:00:11 hi Mat4 :) see this :: http://xieyuheng.github.io/note/computation/cicada-language/cicada-nymph-note/show-all.html 13:00:52 hi all 13:02:12 xyh: I found your documentation style short but very understandable 13:04:13 I ll learn better english and improve it 13:04:35 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@2601:400:8001:14c9:4054:69ed:fbc8:d9b3) joined #forth 13:06:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:06:24 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144211009.atnat0020.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 13:07:08 tangentstorm: I see this :: https://help.github.com/articles/assigning-issues-and-pull-requests-to-other-github-users/ 13:07:20 xyh: does your interpreter implement ITC ? 13:07:31 it seems that I do not know how to use github well at all ~ 13:07:39 Mat4: yes 13:09:57 --- quit: mnemnia (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:09:59 then there exist a simplier way for defining variables by just declarding words for there initial values. Redefinations can be done by overriding the prior compiled code because the word lenght is constant 13:10:55 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-68-40-58-223.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:12:02 defining variables by defining functions ? 13:12:09 yes 13:13:07 function declaration and recompilation at demand (just an idea beside reading) 13:14:45 I think 'define-variable' tag the word declaration as variable, right ? 13:15:43 for example, I can do :: 13:15:44 : *define-variable:testing-numbers* 13:15:44 1 2 3 13:15:44 ; define-variable 13:15:47 *define-variable:testing-numbers* . . . << 3 2 1 >> 13:16:12 and 13:16:16 : *define-variable:testing-string* 13:16:16 "define-variable" 13:16:16 ; define-variable 13:16:16 *define-variable:testing-string* .s << define-variable >> 13:18:49 ok, what is the purpose of '; define-variable' ? 13:21:07 : abc ; == " abc " 13:21:46 [only roughly equal] 13:21:58 ":" is a function 13:22:33 double-quote is syntax extension 13:22:47 as ITC, [of course, you know it] there is an assembly function called "explain$function" at the head of each non-primitive function. 13:22:47 while for variable, there is an assembly function called "explain$variable" at the head of each variable. 13:23:34 ok, thanks for the explanation 13:25:11 my idea is that for a concatenative language variables doesn't differ from regulary word definations beside there execution context differs (in retro this would be the word class) 13:26:46 so it should be possible to compile them as regulary word defination (compile code to push a value to the stack) 13:27:58 if the variable content changes, then simply the prior compiled code can be replaced. This is possible because for ITC each thread composes only of addresses so the compiled code for pushing the value should be constant 13:28:51 this way variables donÄt need to be handled differently from any other defination. All needed is the possibility to recompilate prior defined words 13:30:04 I think this *can* simplify langauge design (probably) 13:31:39 in relation to cicada this would mean that the words 'define-variable' and 'define-function' are not needed 13:34:13 oh! I see your point! 13:36:09 there are many functions alike : (test-function) (test-do) :: http://cicada-language.github.io/code/core-test.cn/show-all.html 13:36:59 I even have (define-macro) and so on ... for a early verison 13:37:10 of the implementation 13:41:13 hmm, I think all these can be handled equally (always compiled) so it can be that all your different context words are avoidable 13:42:12 I would like to quote Errett Bishop here, about constructive math, he said "Meaningful distinctions deserve to be maintained." 13:42:30 for language design, the difference between function and variable is there, I have to give information [in the syntax] to the machine, to let the machine knows the difference. 13:42:41 I also wish the syntax can be as simple as possible, but only : ; seems too simple too me :) 13:42:50 * to me 13:43:43 so I made the : ; as " " and add a little function after it to process the string in different ways 13:45:39 ok, that's fine. It can be that the sources are better understandable this way 13:47:07 I hope this design helps :) 13:47:22 personally, I found an symbolic code representation like APL comfortable (however, I think my preference isn't generalizable) 13:52:31 do you like the (allocate-conjugate-local-memory) ? :) 13:53:44 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 13:55:06 symbolic v.s. word seems really a psycholinguistics problem to me, I wish to learn more to understand people's feeling about language. 13:55:59 'allocate-conjugate-local-memory' is fine 14:02:29 and yes, I think it is a psycholinguistics problem 14:03:18 (mainly) 14:14:28 however, for people with have no affinity to symbolic representations it is difficult to understand such oriented languages (and it seems to me that at least in Europe this is the majority) 14:20:06 you are thinking about Chinese chars ? in ancient Chinese, it is one char one meaning. 14:28:47 no I think about that some people found it difficult understanding mathematic notations independent of there education 14:31:58 on the other side, those people tend to understand complex, philosophical essays without problems as example 14:35:02 according to my observation, this is caused by different kinds of equivalent intuitional understanding 14:35:58 like there exist different styles of effective learning 14:36:22 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 14:38:58 and then there is some kind habituation by using scriptures 14:49:51 --- join: karswell (~user@208.32.199.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 15:30:26 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-232-151.prtc.net) joined #forth 15:33:42 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 15:47:23 ciao 15:47:32 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 16:00:47 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-64-237-232-151.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:02:55 --- quit: _spt_ (Quit: /0\) 16:03:17 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:04:03 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 16:13:52 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:14:44 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:400:8001:14c9:4054:69ed:fbc8:d9b3) joined #forth 18:35:12 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18:47:09 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@c-68-40-58-223.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:48:45 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18:50:03 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@2601:400:8001:14c9:4054:69ed:fbc8:d9b3) joined #forth 18:52:00 --- quit: mnemnia (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18:52:47 --- join: mnemnia (~mnemnion@c-68-40-58-223.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:54:21 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 19:17:48 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20:19:07 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@c-98-246-179-18.hsd1.or.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:19:07 --- quit: darkf (Changing host) 20:19:07 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@unaffiliated/darkf) joined #forth 20:27:59 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@91.98.223.109) joined #forth 21:00:11 --- quit: asagk (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 21:00:36 --- join: asagk (~asagk@i59F6C19D.versanet.de) joined #forth 21:47:19 --- quit: kumool (Quit: Leaving) 22:35:33 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:51:39 --- quit: mnemnia (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.09.14