00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.08.01 00:35:59 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144225150.atnat0034.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 00:40:16 --- join: xyh (~xyh@116.7.237.122) joined #forth 00:44:46 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 00:49:55 --- join: xyh (~xyh@116.7.237.122) joined #forth 00:56:15 + 00:56:37 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:09:51 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b40b95e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 01:31:59 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 01:50:02 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Verlassend) 02:16:07 --- join: true-grue (~grue@95-27-151-42.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 04:12:26 --- join: _spt_ (~jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 04:12:57 --- join: dys (~dys@ip-109-41-158-143.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 05:17:50 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 05:40:35 --- quit: _spt_ (Quit: gone to fix a server for Staffc CC) 05:56:28 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@cpe-67-241-148-119.buffalo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 06:12:29 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 06:12:41 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-68-45-16-225.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:55:58 --- join: dys` (~andreas@x5f722158.dyn.telefonica.de) joined #forth 06:56:22 --- nick: dys` -> Guest3767 06:57:26 --- join: xyh (~xyh@113.87.124.224) joined #forth 07:17:32 --- quit: Guest3767 (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 07:54:12 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 07:58:36 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 08:09:36 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@98.208.35.89) joined #forth 08:37:11 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 08:53:44 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-87-102.prtc.net) joined #forth 08:55:33 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 09:11:20 --- quit: darkf (Quit: Leaving) 09:51:16 --- join: protist (~javery@123.236.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 09:51:55 --- join: _spt_ (~jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 10:27:16 --- join: Dhark8 (~Thunderbi@75-161-114-35.albq.qwest.net) joined #forth 10:29:24 --- quit: Shark8 (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 10:35:02 --- quit: TodPunk (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.) 10:43:53 --- join: TodPunk (~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 11:04:52 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b40b95e.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 11:04:57 hello 11:08:18 Hi. 11:10:14 hi Dhark8 11:10:27 How's it going? 11:11:07 quite nice, I'm working on an editor for my colorforth version 11:11:23 or derivate ? 11:12:11 Cool. 11:21:14 found an elegant way to combine block editor usage with regular file streams (automatic formatting) 11:22:58 in addition source code can now be edited independent of the screen dimensions 11:31:02 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 11:31:19 --- quit: TodPunk (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.) 11:33:34 --- join: bedah (~bedah@host-091-097-168-056.ewe-ip-backbone.de) joined #forth 11:35:17 --- join: impomatic (~impomatic@31.185.136.135) joined #forth 11:43:46 --- quit: tangentstorm (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 11:56:04 --- nick: IRIXuser -> NotIrixuser 11:56:09 --- quit: JohnMarkM (Quit: Leaving) 11:57:59 Mat4: are yu coding asm or higher? 11:58:20 AMD64 asm 11:58:31 are you reaady to share yet? 12:00:14 I want to upload the sources when the editor is finished. However if you are interested I can upload the current state now 12:01:24 kurl? 12:03:32 wait a moment please for the upload 12:03:59 kk 12:04:04 tyyime 12:04:11 tytime 12:09:17 files uploaded 12:10:34 whe? 12:10:52 ok 12:11:32 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@24.1.223.32) joined #forth 12:11:50 --- nick: johnmark_ -> JohnMarkM 12:14:12 Mat4: run spelchk; saw two words spaceless. 12:14:30 oh, thanks 12:15:29 also; use parens around operands in macdefs. 12:15:48 the ins* macs espec. 12:16:42 also, for multiline macs, \\ is needed to prevent ambiguity 12:17:24 also, only 1 space before \\ for aesthestics 12:17:39 line-ups suck :) 12:18:58 also, "license:" is for sepcifying terms of use, not for repeating your ownership copyright. 12:19:17 pick a license model to invoke 12:20:03 technicly, your code is non-free as stated within. 12:20:50 oops; ... 12:21:18 I think you just study the Berana simulator 12:21:42 ok; so i see the lic. terms; the tabs for those paragraphs are too large and make it appear to be unassociated with the "license:" line 12:22:00 shorten the tabs and rm the blank line after "license:" 12:22:23 Mat4: i'm still tryin to figer what it does and how. 12:22:30 thanks, will do 12:22:42 the simulator ? 12:23:25 ya, it's densely written and horizontal 12:24:09 it's a test for the logic and formal correctness of my ISA 12:24:21 k 12:25:08 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 12:26:25 (it shows also that the simulation is able to execute program code at suprising high performance) 12:27:00 my current work lays in the assembler file by the way 12:27:29 kk 12:31:00 I plan to rewrite the simulator in Scheme one day to get away from C 12:35:58 (after an intense research in Nim, Rust, Ada, Phyton, Lua, SML and Haskell) 12:37:09 Guess why not in Forth. :D 12:40:27 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 12:40:36 That's also on my list. However using Chicken I can generate C sources on the fly 12:41:40 and more important I can learn another language 12:44:26 That's my main reason 12:45:39 Pf. 12:45:48 --- join: spt_1 (~jaat@host-92-24-254-2.ppp.as43234.net) joined #forth 12:46:33 The real reason is more like "after intense research in ..., I have found that it looks easier to write prototype in Scheme than in Forth or any of other listed language." 12:47:09 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 12:47:47 pff 12:48:11 more reasons existss to prevent a Doing than exist to encourage one. 12:48:32 ubck the trend, be original - just forth it! 12:48:39 --- quit: _spt_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:48:41 and ignore the mob. 12:49:07 --- join: _spt_3 (~jaat@host-92-24-254-236.ppp.as43234.net) joined #forth 12:49:13 writing Forth is DSL writing. just like Lisps 12:50:29 I agree 12:50:54 ASau: https://github.com/kragen/stoneknifeforth — guess why not in Scheme 12:51:42 Because "It is not expected to be useful." 12:51:46 --- quit: spt_1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:52:45 as written, I'm just curious how to program in a Lisp like language 12:53:08 ok here's an on-topic q: 12:53:52 in my forth, i'm separating Flags from the name's length byte, so that name is counted asciiz vector. 12:54:29 call new field FFA. what bits do i need to assign? 12:54:56 (travesre is gone; nfa, lfa, cfa, pfa are all rewrit) 12:55:26 The "A" in "NFA," "CFA," and "PFA" means "address." 12:55:35 i nkow; an homage. ;] 12:55:48 regularity 12:55:59 Quiznos: I would say it depend on the Forth modell. For a FIG oriented Forth for example you will need at least an immediate and smudge flag 12:56:02 Pf. 12:56:05 ITC 12:56:11 ok 12:56:12 "Homage." 12:56:17 Address is an address. 12:56:19 model 12:56:26 but its spoken oh-maj 12:56:33 heh 12:56:48 the [g] is silent. 12:56:50 hah 12:57:10 it is an address; address for flags. 12:57:25 somewhere between nfa and cfa 12:57:43 This layout is really stupid. 12:57:44 and nfa is a true pointer 12:57:55 i've shown it before: 12:58:14 struct Symbol { char name[]; *nfa, *lfa, *cfa, pfa[] } 12:58:14 If you still wish to continue using "smudge" bit, flags field should come first. 12:58:35 itll be there probably 12:59:18 Besides, keeping dictionary and code mixed is plain stupid. 12:59:34 so 2 req bits so far. i was thining of making flag use upgradable, extendable 12:59:49 it's required on linux x86 in protected mode 12:59:56 What for? 13:00:01 CFA is (*fp)() an dindrect pointer. 13:00:29 bc the insn cache line hates data. 13:01:19 Quiznos: If you take a look at a F83 oriented Forth you will see that the smudge bit is not needed. I think you know: http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving1.htm 13:01:43 ya i have his files locally. i do read em. 13:02:17 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144194075.atnat0003.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 13:02:31 but i'm poring, writing a FIGish itc forth. 13:03:04 at least as a model to start with, but as you seem i've already made some changes that are lkong over due to simplify things. 13:03:08 ITC is fine. You can always add an AOT compiler at demand for performance 13:03:12 (If forth programmers were a little bit smarter, they would abandon ": word ... ;" syntax as well.) 13:03:26 and replace it with what? 13:03:33 AOT? 13:04:19 ahead-of-time compilation (just static compilation before execution for a whole set of word definations = the application) 13:04:38 that's really trivial for an ITC interpreter 13:04:53 never heard of AOT; will investigate 13:05:26 the new Android runtime system for example uses one for code compilation 13:05:27 but that would remove the whole incrmental factoring time from the coder. 13:09:00 lessee, do i set the bits high on the cell or low? 13:09:32 Why does it matter at at all? 13:09:49 Quiznos: no, just write your application and compile after final testing (most Forths have words for that like save-system) 13:10:07 well; if i set low, then assigning higher bits to new uses is easier 13:10:28 but if set high, then [someth else here] 13:10:53 i think lower is better. 13:11:17 Pf! 13:11:36 so, smudge, that's 0; 13:11:48 ASau: why so vocal after all these weeks? 13:12:04 I assume you have a bitmask. If so bit testing would make no difference beside shifting to carry for comparison 13:12:06 are immediate and compile-only separate bits? 13:12:54 i was thinking of just wrapping bt or btc insns 13:12:57 or both 13:14:24 use shifts, the bit test instructions are microcoded on some processors -> slow (it should make no real difference however) 13:15:07 but bt just copies out the bit to CF 13:15:17 I would also seperate the immediate from compile-only state 13:15:21 k 13:15:39 but ya, bt is wrong for this use 13:26:28 is word 'cold' a primitive or colon? 13:26:47 to get the address of the staratup labels to jmp to 13:33:59 I don't understand how you will factor these word out for implementing the functionality as colon defination 13:37:19 ok; (watch for the Cish terminology) 13:37:56 1. a CFA is the symbol for a word, you can derive name from CFA. 13:38:23 2. for a primitive, CFA.value is address of subr in .text 13:38:34 that's the 'indirection' in ITC 13:39:03 and next() does a 'jmp dword [ebx]' at the end. 13:39:07 yes, so what ? 13:39:38 which words are you referring to for factoring? 13:39:49 as I see it cold can be a primitive word 13:40:14 a colon def is a list of .data labels that are CFAs 13:40:48 for primitives, the CFA is `ip@ dd IPget' 13:40:52 for instance. 13:41:23 the .code label is upcased to distinguish from downcase .daata names 13:42:01 in FIG, cold has a primitive subr part and a colondef 13:42:52 so, when linux kernel loads the ELF binary, my _start subr saves sesp, sets and saaves ebp and flls into next() 13:43:24 oops; falls into the standard forth jmps cold and warm labels 13:44:11 which means, ergo, they have to be primitives. 13:44:13 ok 14:01:01 --- quit: dzho (Quit: leaving) 14:01:19 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 14:02:02 --- quit: dzho (Client Quit) 14:02:33 --- quit: _spt_3 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 14:02:53 --- join: _spt_ (~jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 14:03:19 --- join: dzho (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 14:04:39 --- join: spt_1 (~jaat@host-92-24-242-144.ppp.as43234.net) joined #forth 14:07:23 --- quit: _spt_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14:33:42 --- quit: bedah (Quit: quit) 14:36:05 --- nick: Dhark8 -> Shark8 14:41:34 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Verlassend) 15:04:07 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:21:07 --- nick: MrM0bius -> MrMobius 16:26:48 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:34:47 --- quit: spt_1 (Quit: gone to fix a server for Staffc CC) 18:03:33 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 18:10:47 --- join: TodPunk (Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 18:14:37 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@cpe-67-241-148-119.buffalo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 18:21:17 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 18:21:37 --- join: ASau (~user@46.114.75.242) joined #forth 19:27:02 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 19:27:23 --- join: ASau (~user@46.114.75.242) joined #forth 19:44:50 --- join: xyh (~xyh@183.39.239.234) joined #forth 20:20:11 --- join: xyh- (~xyh@183.39.239.234) joined #forth 20:20:38 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@unaffiliated/darkf) joined #forth 20:20:40 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20:59:34 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Goodnight everyone!) 21:38:22 --- quit: xyh- (Remote host closed the connection) 22:53:36 --- join: protist (~javery@123.236.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 23:40:16 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 23:58:31 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-87-102.prtc.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.08.01