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11:24:30 <IRIXuser> attempting to divorce forth from direct memory access to the host while still retaining such notions as execution tokens is proving a fun time
11:39:23 * _spt_ is installing debian then gforth on an old laptop to play with while my wife talks about divorce!
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12:51:06 <IRIXuser> voila
12:51:14 <IRIXuser> through some trickery, i now have execute 
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13:35:31 <pointfree> DKordic: Thanks, I've emailed Ting inquiring about buying the book. I hope he has a copy.
13:35:32 <pointfree> There used to be a PDF on the internet -- but it's gone.
13:46:00 <pointfree> Soni, there was an interesting discussion on Single-Stack Forth in comp.lang.forth (1995): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.forth/4m-0s9oI25s
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15:05:02 <IRIXuser> there we go, create implemented
15:09:39 <Rhyis> Is there a standard way people use array functions that consume the preceeding array and the pointer? The insane amounts of swapping and dupping are starting to get to me. x.x
15:14:14 <ASau> Welcome to stack machines!
15:14:29 <Rhyis> ... Macros can save me! D:!
15:14:39 <ASau> You have volunteered to do all that swapping and dupping.
15:14:46 <Rhyis> Fiiiiine. <.<
15:15:12 <Rhyis> Okay, seriously though, I think I mis-typed myself. Forgive me; I'm on a roadtrip, and to save myself from the madness of 20 Questions, I began writing in Forth.
15:15:22 <ASau> If you want to stop wasting your time, just stop wasting your time and move on to some modern technology.
15:16:07 <Rhyis> Well, this is my choice. ..And my only choice. Well, this or Python, and I'd rather learn Assembly than that. So there. o_o.
15:16:33 <ASau> You could have learned some more modern programming language.
15:16:43 <Rhyis> I'm working on a 25 year-old server. x.x
15:17:09 * Rhyis moves back onto topics that are actually productive, relevant, and don't involve a complete rewrite.
15:18:55 <Rhyis> So, the implementation of Forth I'm in handles arrays _weird_. To me, at least. All the primatives expect the array and an integer representing the pointer on the stack, and consume both while returning their result. This makes simple things like getting an item from the array a pain in the face, and I'm having issues figuring out exactly where to put my swaps and dups to actually get an item out of the array and move it to the top of the stack, 
15:18:56 <Rhyis> all without actually consuming the array or pointer, nor having duplicates. Does aynone have any tips?
15:19:16 <Rhyis> ...Nevermind. I'm an idiot. "over over". Sorry. x.x
15:19:37 <IRIXuser> and now it actually works :)
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15:21:27 <ASau> There exist 2dup, 2over, 2swap and friends.
15:21:34 <IRIXuser> ah, it's fun writing a forth in c++11/14 and trying to keep everything 100% safe and without a single pointer in sight, while tricking the forther into thinking they have an entire computer to themselves
15:21:48 <Rhyis> Yes, but that just reaches down and takes it from N-down in my implementation, ASau.
15:24:39 <IRIXuser> ASau: i ran into another of your projects incidentally
15:24:43 <IRIXuser> aPFoRTH
15:25:23 * ASau shrugs.
15:25:59 <IRIXuser> i presume you ditched it in FiCL's favour?
15:27:06 <ASau> More like the opposite.
15:27:18 <ASau> Anyway, it is all dead now.
15:27:57 <IRIXuser> well, with that attitude, it is
15:28:49 <ASau> At some point I thought that fixing bugs and maintaining legacy code cost less than rewriting.
15:29:07 <IRIXuser> oh, you're writing your own now? that's even better
15:29:27 <ASau> No.
15:30:03 <ASau> When I need anything from my legacy code, I just rewrite it in anything more maintainable.
15:30:26 <IRIXuser> so, you're abandoning forth - a shame
15:31:14 <IRIXuser> why not indulge yourself - extend or rewrite forth into something you could better tolerate. throw in registers and constructs to automate the loading of the stack with parameters and their retrieval, the possibilities are without limit
15:31:46 <ASau> If you haven't noticed it, I've done it already.
15:32:12 <ASau> I have thrown Forth away and rewritten my code into whatever looked appropriate.
15:32:43 <ASau> In some cases it was CL, in some cases it was SML, in some cases it was Java even.
15:34:24 <IRIXuser> time to reintroduce forth or a forth derivative, then
15:34:30 <ASau> No.
15:34:59 <ASau> There's no place for Forth anymore.
15:35:24 <ASau> Even if I run into the case when I need to write something with code generator,
15:35:34 <ASau> I shan't use Forth.
15:36:50 <ASau> I'll use something in the style of Java or Lua.
15:37:42 <ASau> Or CL, if I am lazy on parsing side.
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15:42:39 <Rhyis> Ironically, I'm writing in MUF, which is basically "Forth that thinks its LUA". <w<'
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15:44:26 <sbp> Rhyis: what does the <w<' word do?
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15:51:21 <ASau> Anyway, if you want to learn the hard way, nobody can stop you.
15:51:47 <ASau> Yet I'm not going to go back.
15:51:50 <ASau> I've seen that all.
15:54:12 <ASau> I used various implementations of Forth: written in assembler, written in text preprocessor on top of assembler, cross-compiled from another Forth, written in Forth and self-hosted, written in Forth and cross-compiled, written in C and so on.
15:54:41 <ASau> Plus I have fixed a lot of shit Forth code that I know what is the usual quality of Forth code.
15:55:59 <ASau> I know that I am able to program in intermediate representation, yet I'm not going to program everything in a language that is actually IR with somewhat more human notation.
15:58:03 <Rhyis> sbp: Sorry, it's like "<.<", but I'm furry and forget that I'm on Freenode sometimes. x.x..
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19:11:37 <pointfree> Quiznos, Yep, I'm running Linux.
19:11:37 <pointfree> How are you deblocking and reblocking Forth blocks with dd?
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