00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.04.15 00:10:46 --- join: dys (~user@ip-109-44-229-119.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 00:23:55 see yourforth 00:24:26 pretty sure it's based on lina (maybe even same author?) but it's scaled down and follows the jonesforth literate style 00:24:31 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:29:06 --- join: mnemnion_ (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:29:13 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 00:39:46 hm, ok 00:56:22 --- join: atommann (~atommann@63-246-135-194.static.sagonet.net) joined #forth 00:58:18 --- quit: atommann (Remote host closed the connection) 01:22:22 --- join: atommann (~atommann@63-246-135-194.static.sagonet.net) joined #forth 01:34:28 --- quit: mnemnion_ (Remote host closed the connection) 02:01:34 --- quit: atommann (Remote host closed the connection) 02:17:02 --- join: atommann (~atommann@63-246-135-194.static.sagonet.net) joined #forth 02:19:08 --- join: true-grue (~grue@95-27-157-209.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 02:19:34 yeah it is by the same guy, and it's also much smaller than lina's asm kernel 02:20:17 but it's not for arm and I haven't been able to find an arm binary of fasm.. so I've been using gas for assembly on Android, as there are several ports of gcc for it 02:21:10 so you're making a native android for android? 02:21:15 er 02:21:17 so you're making a native forth for android? 02:22:34 no, I was just looking at porting lina to Android. seems pretty doable, but not for me, not unless I don't do much else for the next few weeks. 02:31:14 --- quit: atommann (Remote host closed the connection) 02:34:17 --- join: atommann (~atommann@58.251.2.94) joined #forth 02:48:10 benefits from lina on android: 1) I can run lina stuff on my android laptop, instead of just on my webhost over ssh. not having this is kinda aggravating, but I can live with it. gforth is available after all. 2) being, itself, something I might expand into a way to develop android apps, in competition with gforth. 02:49:41 for #2... looking at gforth's android compilation stuff finally... I think it won't be too much trouble to get working reliably. 02:50:36 android laptop? 02:51:13 yeah. HP came out with a decent one. $100 incredibly cheap ones have been out for a while. 02:51:40 huh. does it have like a touchpad/mouse kind of thing? 02:52:10 yeah, a touchpad mouse, three USB ports (only used a controller so far, for Vendetta Online), bluetooth, normal HID stuff. 02:53:13 the ironic thing about normal android tablets is that you need something like the surface of a desktop to type comfortably on them, because the (non-)hinge between the heavy tablet and the light keyboards are so weak. so they're unstable without a flat surface. 02:53:47 with a laptop I can type comfortably in bed. which is what I'm doing right now. 03:01:38 --- join: t4nk700 (5c28f947@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.40.249.71) joined #forth 03:03:28 :) 03:16:08 dview: the model named elite ? 03:16:37 --- quit: t4nk700 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 03:16:40 as i knew HP has brought a chromebook/android laptop which use usb for power supplyment 03:17:42 --- quit: atommann (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03:18:18 yunfan: the HP Slatebook 14. it doesn't use ChromeOS - it's just Android. It doesn't charge from USB. 03:20:26 dview: so how you got that in $100 03:21:06 I didn't. I paid $300 for it, through Amazon. I was contrasting it with $100 Android laptops. 03:22:16 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 03:22:23 okay 03:22:34 android seems has its own dynamic linker 03:25:27 tangentstorm: how about the ? :: https://github.com/sabren/b4/issues/1 03:30:14 yeah you have to git add lib/xpl or the makefile will overwrite it 03:32:16 I did "git add ." there, and git submodule is not updated anymore, but the error still. 03:45:58 hrm. 03:46:21 yeah but you have to git pull it again. 03:46:27 hang on i'll just try to fix it. :) 03:47:15 okay i pushed a new version 03:47:41 git reset . ; git pull ; make retro 03:47:46 ^ hopefully should fix the problem 03:56:26 ... alright. screw that. it'll be far easier for me to learn enough x86 and arm assembly both, to get lina on Android, than to build gforth for Android. 03:59:36 hey you could try building my pascal implementation of retro. 04:00:22 (you can get crc's retro app from google play, but it's not a native/console app, as far as i know) 04:00:53 fpc can target android. 04:01:32 * tangentstorm should be the one trying this... will do so after i finish my current thing. 04:02:29 Isn't the major issue with Android the facts that code and memory are very segmented ala harvard architecture? Can't just go into the interpreter and make new words on the device itself. Have to develop/build on a hosted environment then send to target. 04:02:52 I'm not that interested in retro. and no the google play app is not that good; it's also dead. but if you have instructions that should work, I can try them for you in a bit. 04:03:58 android is linux under the hood, and you can run a linux console 04:03:58 fwiw I understand Mark is moving isforth to Android. You might wanna talk with him. 04:04:21 proteusguy: no, there's no issue with Android except that Apple poisoned developers by being A) first, B) good, and C) crazy hostile to development. So lots of people made first-impression decisions which they still haven't reevaluated in a timely manner. 04:04:31 tangentstorm, yes but Android adds some really hard core security stuff that makes the normal dev cycle for forth a lot different. 04:05:19 probably true, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to develop words on the device. 04:05:46 tangentstorm, hmm... I had heard otherwise but have never tried. Would be happy to get confirmation of that fact. 04:05:55 specifically, you can extend the interpreter just fine on android - you can do that already with gforth. it performs identically as on a desktop. you do not need a hosted environment to develop for it. You can already make normal Java apps with Terminal IDE and such. 04:06:13 dview: i don't actually know how to do it. you can actually run fpc (free pascal compiler) as a native android app, and/or cross-compile but i've never sat down and worked through it. 04:06:17 cool - glad to hear. 04:07:38 dview: even if you don't want to use retro itself, the virtual machine on which it rus is very well designed, and is basically already a forth inner interpreter. 04:08:06 http://retroforth.org/docs/The_Ngaro_Virtual_Machine.html 04:08:28 and there are already a ton of different implementations of ngaro. 04:08:32 oh and there's mako 04:09:27 https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Mako <- implemented in java, geared towards games rather than being a full forth. 04:10:23 i don't remember exactly what i had to do, but it wasn't too hard to get the games running. 04:11:28 proteusguy: someone comfortable with assembler could port lina in a few days, I'm pretty sure, using an easily acquired on-android copy of gas, from kbox. gforth was just annoying because of the endless dependency tree that I had to set up on linux, and because more than one dependency seems to be unstable - including gforth itself, since to get the android stuff you have to get it from git. 04:12:17 tangentstorm: the same error, I am giving up for now :P 04:13:01 dview: you are not interested in forth-like language ? but only the standard forth ? 04:13:24 tangentstorm: as readily as I gave up on cross-compiling gforth myself, it's both a full forth and really good for games on android. Its OpenGL support is great. It's just the 'app deployment' stage that's broken right now. 04:14:36 ok. sorry, xyh. i'll take a look soon. 04:19:33 xyh - sure. I don't like code rot. I like libraries. I like being able to read other people's code and their being able to read mine. I don't like re-learning basic stuff like "how to print a number" because a special snowflake thought that 'announce-int' was a better word. and all the incompatibility is, like one Wirth language into another (WirthL: now with extensible structs!), always attached to actual loss of functionality, and to features that could have 04:20:08 --- join: GeDaMo (~GeDaMo@212.225.93.112) joined #forth 04:20:19 ranty, but that's also about all the rant I have in me on it. 04:20:38 since android dev is stymied for now, I guess I'll get back to work on forth for the web. 04:45:57 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@cpe-67-241-148-119.buffalo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 04:48:33 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:22:36 --- quit: karswell` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:30:25 i think you guys are all focus on implement forth native on android, not to make forth easily use on android 05:31:04 i'd like to programming onboard, which means i want to coding on my android phone. and i want it to be convinient using the touch screen 05:32:44 for eg, forth word are made of existing word and number, so if you have a tree structure on memory, you could let the user select an existing word easier by finger across the screen instead of using the soft keyboard 05:35:03 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:39:55 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 05:53:08 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Ave atque vale) 06:04:58 yunfan, yeah it's not forth to me if I can't code in the target environment. of course some super tiny ones you can't but certainly anything with an ARM processor certainly can. 06:05:30 I want to use forth easily on android - just, with a keyboard. the *apps* are what I want to respond to touches. 06:05:48 but you can work on a UI like that with gforth easily enough, as it is. 06:06:09 * proteusguy will be back in half hour or so... 06:06:21 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 06:09:00 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 06:17:12 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-84-9.prtc.net) joined #forth 06:31:31 --- join: MrMobius_ (~MrMobius@c-71-206-218-187.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:44:37 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@183.88.33.190) joined #forth 06:44:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 06:52:28 * proteusguy is back. 06:52:30 What I miss? 06:52:41 Nowt 06:53:26 the revolution. chuck moore popped in, renounced his evil ways, and pledged to support COBOL. 06:53:45 * proteusguy is gravely disappointed. Thought forth would be ruling the world by now. 06:53:57 Be the change! :P 06:54:15 * proteusguy realizes how easy it would be to implement a COBOL system in forth... scary! 06:54:50 you seem to have a consulting company. create some forth jobs :) 06:58:12 Well... I'm selling this company and do have the idea for a forth-like language which I want to implement as the asm for a stack-based processor idea I've had for a few years. We'll see if it happens. Probably a year or two away... 06:59:09 Unfortunately the demand for systems we get are all full stack web services and not really forth-ish embedded systems. I'm not prepared to do forth at that large scale level. Would have to develop a different stack-based language. 07:00:15 We are doing something for a client that involves creating a statically typed concatanative language for manipulating data streams. Implemented in python right now but runs in mobile devices. I could convert that to a forth-like embedded system for Android later on after the MVP. 07:00:49 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@c-73-51-235-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:01:07 fun. 07:01:26 have you seen kitten? 07:01:32 yes indeed 07:01:40 http://kittenlang.org/ for those who haven't 07:01:48 what we're doing is partly inspired by that in concept. 07:02:17 * tangentstorm was considering porting cat to work with unity3d. there's already a c# implementation. 07:02:22 --- nick: johnmark_ -> JohnMarkM 07:04:20 is pretty nicely done for such a simple implementation. 07:05:09 sounds like a cool project, in any case. 07:06:45 If I can ever finish it. Have a big conference demo next Tuesday and several key parts to integrate... hopefully we can have a nice demo. 07:06:58 tangentstorm, you in Texas or am I remembering wrong? 07:17:51 yes, dallas/fort worth 07:18:09 --- quit: darkf (Quit: Leaving) 07:18:09 you? 07:19:43 a forth-ish language on client side for manipulating data? are you inventing carrier IQ again? 07:38:37 tangentstorm, I'm living in Bangkok but I lived in Dallas around 1990-1992. I still go back and visit whenever I'm in the states (about every other year). Grew up in Forth Smith Arkansas mainly. 07:39:33 yunfan, nothing at all like Carrier IQ. 07:40:30 i'd almost ask we knew any of the same people from the bbs days, but i guess dallas and fort worth were long distance calls back then. 07:44:14 haha I was definitely in and amongst that scene from 1983 onwards. :) There was a Dallas BBS we used a lot... ClearviewBBS or something like that. Was pretty popular. Naturally being in the phreak scene, LD wasn't a large concern to us. ;) My public handle was Larry "Bud" Melman. 08:00:20 i was (817) only... we had a big multi-line community board called chrysalis. 08:01:07 i had a couple different handles back then. sterling, eldude, sabren 08:04:39 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-72-50-84-9.prtc.net) joined #forth 08:05:31 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:09:57 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:17:03 --- quit: MrMobius_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 08:18:32 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 08:26:37 tangentstorm: do texas people take gun allday? 08:27:39 yunfan, most good Americans do. I had a carry permit in Atlanta. 08:29:04 proteusguy: do your state have the `stand your own ground` rule ? 08:30:30 yunfan, I don't recall. Don't think we needed it. 08:30:46 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 08:31:44 proteusguy: it looks like the florida has it 08:32:01 i am very agree with that (maybe because i live in china :L) 08:33:15 I have a famliy sword hanging on the wall. 08:35:03 my dad keeps a pistol handy, and my mom carries one around whenever she takes a road trip. 08:35:17 we have a gun safe full of rifles and stuff for hunting. 08:35:23 i'm not much into it. 08:35:42 (i live in my parents old house, and a bunch of their stuff is still here) 08:41:27 --- join: I440r (~mark4@38.122.200.194) joined #forth 08:41:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 09:46:59 yunfan, the only states that need such a law are the ones that have some other stupid law that requires you to run away from people who assault you. Frankly that's unAmerican and against your natural human rights. So a stand your ground law should never be necessary in the first place. 09:53:43 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-84-9.prtc.net) joined #forth 09:57:51 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:16:58 proteusguy, stand your ground ftw 10:17:15 running away from an attack == "go ahead and shoot me in the back" 11:06:59 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.12.127) joined #forth 11:36:29 any law specifying a duty to retreat is invalid 11:37:25 they may apply to a statutory citizen but NOT to the people. i am not a statutory citizen unless i chose to be and it is I who defines when i am and am not a statutory citizen 11:38:33 p.s. there is no such thing as a "soverign citizen". if you are a citizen you are not soverign 11:49:41 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@46.22.110.168) joined #forth 12:07:19 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 12:13:46 I440r, indeed. BTW - not to get off topic for the thread but, how's your Android forth coming along? ;) There was some conversation about doing forth development on the target device (inside interpreter/editor context) earlier today. 12:17:39 proteusguy, ive not been working on it for a while, i need to revamp it to have an actual interface where an application can send strings to its input buffers to be processed within its quit loop 12:17:47 right now it doesnt have a quit loop 12:18:04 quitters never win. :) 12:18:14 the only viable way i can see to give it a expect/query is via sockets 12:18:31 i didnt quit i got a job which im working 80+ hours a week on for a pittance 12:18:46 I think he was referring to th quit loop. ;) 12:18:53 i make double burger flip wage where i should be earning over 100k 12:18:57 oh lol 12:19:18 right now im in BLE hell. (bluez) 12:19:36 there are no tutorials for bluez other than python and FUCK PYTHON 12:19:42 so i have to learn dbus 12:19:52 * proteusguy is writing python as we speak - and likes it! 12:19:58 need some python advice? 12:20:00 seems like there are no tutorials for dbus either 12:20:10 yeah, it was a dumb joke 12:20:13 no i have less than zero interest in ever developing anything in python 12:20:35 most jokes are dumb :) 12:20:44 speaking of that, i saw a dallas embedded programming job on stackoverflow not too long ago, and meant to tell you about it. it's c++ -centric though. 12:21:19 basically with bluez all i have is the dbus api. as ive told them, an API is just a pile of wood. i need to build a house wth that pile of wood and i have no blueprint 12:21:51 they tell me what they have. they dont tell me how to use it, where to use it, when to use it or WHY to use it 12:21:53 bluez? 12:22:00 http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/66002/firmware-engineer-ilumi?searchTerm=embedded 12:22:12 im finding the same problem with dbus. they give you a good description of what it is followed by an API list 12:22:21 bluez is the ONLY bluetooth stack in linux 12:22:43 wow stackoverflow has a jopbs search? 12:22:49 whodathunkit 12:23:34 yeah. i think it was their business plan all all along. 12:24:21 so i have a bluez api listing and a description of every call. NO documentation on how to use that API. 12:24:35 the bluez devs say i dont need one, all i have to do is learn dbus 12:24:47 well.. dbus has an API listing and no documentation on how to use it 12:24:53 fucking awesome 12:24:57 what's the device doing? 12:25:18 i need to do a BLE scan for advertisements and i need the RSSI of every advertisement AND the advertisement data 12:25:33 and i need to do it in C not command line and not python 12:26:07 i will need to have 40 or 50 different devices all watching for beacons from 400 or 500 people and tracking every single persons location 12:26:22 and i need geofences and i need to track the length of time each person spent within a given geofence 12:26:32 cool... is this a tracking tool or something to help establish peer-to-peer sessions? 12:26:50 its for use in hospital emergency rooms. how long was a patient wating 12:26:58 how long did the doctor spend with that patient 12:27:03 where did the patient go 12:27:07 where did the doctor go 12:27:20 how long did the doctor spend hitting on the cute nurse... that sort of thing :) 12:27:27 sounds like a cool app. 12:27:33 i wont be doing any of the analytics 12:27:39 and it wont be an android app 12:27:44 what's the device your code runs in? 12:28:03 it will run on a raspberry pi 2 12:28:19 it will have a xbee mesh network connecting all the observers 12:28:28 i already have the xbee mesh network developed 12:29:27 one (or more) of the PIs will have some connection to the cloud 12:29:31 Definitely an interesting project. 12:30:22 Is xbee got the bluetooth? I don't recall raspberry pi having that on board. 12:30:35 but im utterly stonewalled by the almost complete and utter lack of real documentation or example code for bluetooth low energy in linux 12:30:58 i have only been able to find ONE piece of example code in C that does BLE observing 12:31:10 and to get the RSSI that creates a connection. something i KNOW it does not need to do 12:31:22 I'd seriously prototype the thing in python at first just to see it run. Then migrate to a C/C++ stack. (or heck - even forth!) 12:31:24 and in my scenario it CAN NOT EVER make a connection to the devices it is observing 12:31:33 and its also using the deprecated bluez api 12:31:38 fuck python 12:31:46 haha why the hatred of python? 12:32:08 i already have python code here that the chinese skript kiddie intern downloaded and went to the boss "look what i did boss" 12:32:17 and that is ALSO using the deprecated api 12:32:37 and said skript kiddie doesnt know SHIT about bluetooth or ble or bluez development 12:33:36 ive done nothing for the past month other than spend 80 hours a week studing the bluetooth 4.x core spec, try to learn bluez and dbus 12:33:52 so that i can develop production ready code for a production stable system 12:33:58 For what you're trying to do (basically capture device pings promiscuously) I'd probably look at the bluez source and then simply implement only the parts I needed to do this bit. No doubt the APIs are probably mostly at a higher level with added complexity than you want/need. Probably could seriously prototype it in forth quite fast. 12:34:03 what the skript kiddie downloaded will NEVER be production ready 12:34:35 yeah the api exposed to python probably doesn't even let you get to the low level you desire. 12:34:39 proteusguy, i have looked at the bluez sources. stripping out BLE scanning from anywhere inside that gordian knot would takes over a month for me 12:35:05 the python api will be thrown out witin a couple of months probably sooner 12:35:20 that entire API is deprecated and will be removed from bluez in a not so distant future update 12:35:35 i.e. ANY application using that deprecated API will be instantly BROKEN 12:35:57 and the python bluez api is using the sockets api not the dbus api 12:36:10 i suspect thats already rewritten ready for the upcoming release 12:36:28 but the little skript kiddie code our skript kiddie intern downloaded and went to the boss with wont be 12:36:54 so while im working my ass off trying to learn this shit and come to understand it my boss is now pissed off with me because "look he has something that works" 12:36:59 err no boss. no he fucking doesnt 12:43:10 whats more his raspbery pi will probably fall over dead withina few months of use 12:43:39 tangentstorm, that job looks pretty interesting actually. I lived in Richardson and Irving when I was in Dallas. First contract was Ericson then IBM. 12:44:01 4 gig flash card. 3.8 gigs used 12:44:29 proteusguy, i currently live in dallas, spitting distance from richardson 12:47:07 my flash card is also 4 gigs of which i have used 1.1 gigs and SOME of that is development tools which i can remove for production 12:47:58 of course, he can upgrade to a 8/16/32 gig flash card increasing his chances of living longer but i can do the same thing.. or NOT and be cheaper 12:48:54 also. his debian system will have extreme dependancy bloat. my trimmed down gentoo install on this pi has zero dependancy bloat 12:49:16 because in gentoo i can very finely control the deps of just about every package i install 12:49:30 you have a tough sell convincing the boss your way is better. there is value in something that works now and can be tweaked and optimized and hardened later. 12:49:50 and the system is likely to fail long enough after it is "done" that the correlation won't be obvious to all 12:49:54 bluekelp, it cant be tweaked. it has to be totally rewritten 12:50:15 and skript kiddie isnt going to be doing that 12:50:32 it also wont be able to handle the workloads this system is going to be put under 12:50:49 yeah. i don't have the embedded background, proteusguy, but i thought it was worth passing along. 12:50:52 no interpreted language will be able to handle these workloads 12:51:23 possibly. i don't know the specifics of the workload. but perception here matters 12:51:52 maybe you need to show how that system falls down, or else you'll just look like the bitter old dude complaining that some young whippersnapper got the better of him 12:52:06 seriously. people don't know how hard these systems are to actually do 12:52:16 they don't know what they don't know 12:52:35 part of your job is to educate and illustrate this - else we'll all be replaced with script kiddie interns next week 12:52:46 then the world will fall apart the week after 12:53:01 bluekelp, my boss wants instant gratification, i dont think he CARES what is required of a SYSTEMS engineer 12:53:07 after pyNukyularReakt0r is released into production 12:53:16 skript kiddie isnt engineering anything, he is downloading it 12:53:30 that's an education problem. sounds like your boss maybe wants a prototype and not a production system? 12:53:44 does s/he know the difference? 12:53:51 no. i gave him the prototype weeks ago 12:53:55 using arduino 12:54:07 that's why i suggest demonstrating your value and experience by showing how the other system fails so quickly 12:54:12 he wanted to use arduino in production because.. .u know.. thas just plug and play drag and drop 12:54:18 otherwise people will form opinions and assume it works 12:54:32 till i told him his arduino is out of ram with just the xbee stack and has no bluetooth 12:54:38 ah, so your boss really doesn't know much about systems 12:55:03 he designed and developed the cloud system this company uses 12:55:13 he knows UBBER high level web/net development 12:55:18 but again, part of the job is educating them 12:55:27 i have been trying :) 12:55:30 yep. he's an application developer. not a software engineer. 12:55:34 including the skript kiddie 12:55:42 he will actually be a good engineer some day. 12:55:44 unfortunately ADs don't know that they don't know everything. 12:56:07 people are of 3 minds. what they know, what they dont know and what they dont know they dont know 12:56:14 i forget who said that 12:56:24 i would say 4 things 12:56:37 what tbey know. what they think they know. what they dont know and what they dont know they dont know 12:56:59 anyway - for your own job and the success of the product you have two jobs - one is engineering and the other is communication/education 12:57:02 good luck 12:57:19 ha - i like that (what you know, etc.) 12:57:27 until i get ANY ble scanning working with RSSI in c i have no means of communicating 12:57:51 i have c code to do ble scanning but it does not have RSSI 12:58:10 i might be able to extract that because for a ble beacon the RSSI is actually in the beacon data 12:58:12 somewhere 12:58:18 throw real load at the script version and show it fall apart. then explain why. then perhaps they'll start to understand that this isn't all bolt-together API work 12:58:39 cant. we have two raspberry pi. skript kiddie off in his corner 12:58:42 in the application developer world, it really is all mostly bolting together tools other people have written and "good enough" 12:58:46 me in mine. no networking between them OR US 12:59:01 ask the other guy for a demo and push it to its limits 12:59:10 thats how arduino development goes too 12:59:39 cant. need a production xbee network and 4 or 5 HUNDRED beacons. not the TWO that i have 13:00:22 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 13:00:33 also im not touching his system at all 13:00:36 hrm. seems like it's amateur hour. if they intend to run it w/that many beacons they'll have to test it at some point 13:00:55 bluekelp, ya dont say? ! 13:00:59 lol 13:00:59 don't touch it - that's why i said ask for a demo. if he can't track several tens of units, it's obvious it won't scale to hundreds 13:01:16 he is overloaded with work with ONE beacon 13:01:32 "we just need to put the right 'algorithms' in there" 13:01:44 he has alot of buzz words he likes to use 13:02:11 ok that's good. walk over there with your other two and then start pushing him to get detailed on the "how" - maybe have your boss put the other beacon in his pocket. 13:02:16 how are you going to do that? you dont even understand the code or any of the implications of using it... .. . and.. what algorithms would those be? 13:02:42 it's not easy. maybe mentoring him would help him to understand just how much he doesn't know 13:02:59 people get defensive and dig in when threatened. and then you have a diff set of problems 13:03:10 he has resisted almost every effort i have made to put him on track 13:03:33 i have stopped doing that. if i see a way i can help him i do it but im not going to be banging my head against his wall 13:03:56 he is not a bad guy, he is very polite and like i say he will be a good engineer some day 13:04:11 what are you contributing to the situation? serious question. your comments here ("fuck python") indicate you might not be approachable 13:04:18 but he is in a box and that box contains his current experience and he wont go outside the box 13:04:20 i'm not there to observe so i have to guess from afar 13:04:26 --- quit: Keshl (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 13:04:27 anyway, good luck. i need to run out for a bit 13:05:06 good question, im in MY corner continuting to research what i need to know to get a real system developed 13:06:03 meanwhile when he scrws up his PI linux which he did again yesterday im more than happy to go there and fix it for me 13:06:03 even though ive not touched a debian system in close to 15 years lol 13:06:46 ick debian 13:06:46 im not going to be putting ANY effort into helping him with his doomed to failure non system 13:26:36 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip188619bb.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 13:26:38 hi all 13:27:04 Hi Mat4 :) 13:27:26 hi GeDaMo 13:27:35 what's around here ? 14:23:45 --- join: Keshl (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 14:24:12 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Remote host closed the connection) 14:31:25 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Verlassend) 15:02:22 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@cpe-67-241-148-119.buffalo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:19:31 --- quit: GeDaMo (Remote host closed the connection) 15:30:22 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:32:53 --- join: MrMobius_ (~MrMobius@c-71-206-218-187.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:45:26 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8D2D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 15:47:17 --- quit: MickyW (Quit: Verlassend) 15:49:58 --- join: MickyW (~MickyW@p4FE8D2D1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 15:51:38 --- quit: MickyW (Client Quit) 15:57:34 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 15:59:23 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 16:16:01 --- quit: MrMobius_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:19:35 --- quit: carc (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 16:21:20 --- join: carc (~carc@unaffiliated/carc) joined #forth 16:25:42 --- join: karswell (~user@87.114.71.59) joined #forth 16:33:20 --- join: Keshl_ (~Purple@24.115.181.94.res-cmts.gld.ptd.net) joined #forth 16:34:09 --- join: DQxJKEcIG (~malyn@server.strangegizmo.com) joined #forth 16:35:16 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 16:40:26 --- join: tsumetai` (x@unaffiliated/tsumetai) joined #forth 16:41:23 --- quit: malyn (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:41:23 --- quit: nighty^_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:41:24 --- quit: jTK]vu\Cq (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:41:24 --- quit: Keshl (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:41:24 --- quit: tsumetai (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:41:24 --- quit: bjorkintosh (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 16:41:29 --- join: malyn_ (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 16:41:53 --- nick: malyn_ -> malyn 16:41:55 --- join: demonview (~jf@75.94.26.174) joined #forth 16:41:56 --- quit: demonview (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:42:20 --- quit: dview (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:42:55 --- join: bjorkintosh (~bjork@ip68-13-224-81.ok.ok.cox.net) joined #forth 17:01:08 --- nick: Keshl_ -> Keshl 17:12:43 --- join: dview (~jf@75.94.26.174) joined #forth 17:16:01 --- quit: mnemnion () 17:17:28 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:36:08 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 17:36:12 --- quit: TodPunk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:00:10 --- quit: dview (Quit: Bye) 18:02:27 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 18:25:00 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 18:31:01 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 18:32:54 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@98.208.35.89) joined #forth 18:33:34 --- nick: Tod-Autojoined -> TodPunk 19:47:33 --- join: atommann (~atommann@58.251.2.94) joined #forth 19:47:59 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@unaffiliated/darkf) joined #forth 20:40:23 --- join: saml_ (~saml@cpe-24-102-97-97.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 21:14:05 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 21:25:21 --- quit: saml_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 21:28:11 --- part: Plazma left #forth 21:31:28 --- quit: JohnMarkM (Quit: Leaving) 22:04:10 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 22:04:38 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 22:21:56 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 22:27:38 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-87-73.prtc.net) joined #forth 22:53:18 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 22:53:24 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:07:52 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 23:32:42 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:34:11 --- join: karswell (~user@87.114.71.59) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.04.15