00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.03.26 00:00:19 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00:31:31 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@61.205.125.91.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 00:33:24 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-238-251.prtc.net) joined #forth 00:38:10 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 00:39:30 --- join: bjorkintosh (~bjork@ip68-13-224-81.ok.ok.cox.net) joined #forth 01:11:13 --- join: pgomes (~pgomes@ip923476d3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 01:12:24 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:24:22 --- quit: pgomes (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01:40:16 --- join: pgomes (~pgomes@ip923476d3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 01:51:24 --- quit: pgomes (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 01:59:12 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@98.208.35.89) joined #forth 02:02:02 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 02:54:37 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 03:03:23 --- quit: atommann (Quit: Leaving) 03:40:31 --- join: Yunfan-phone (~jyfl987@117.136.0.178) joined #forth 03:41:34 --- quit: Yunfan-phone (Client Quit) 04:06:04 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@cpe-67-241-148-119.buffalo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 04:16:21 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 04:17:34 --- quit: TodPunk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:19:52 --- join: yunfan_ (~roooot@192.241.238.111) joined #forth 04:20:55 --- join: bluekelp_ (~bluekelp@bluekelp.com) joined #forth 04:22:04 --- join: dzho_ (~dzho@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 04:26:16 --- quit: yunfan (*.net *.split) 04:26:16 --- quit: dzho (*.net *.split) 04:26:16 --- quit: bluekelp (*.net *.split) 04:31:42 --- quit: bjorkintosh (*.net *.split) 04:33:57 yunfan_, unfortauntely I think you'll find that high register count cpus don't offer any advantages to stack oriented languages.You really need machines that make stacks fundamental to get optimum utilization. MIPs is nice but I've not found it conducive to forth-ish languages. 04:34:55 --- join: bjorkintosh (~bjork@ip68-13-224-81.ok.ok.cox.net) joined #forth 04:47:06 --- join: true-grue (~grue@95-27-178-162.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 04:57:26 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:27:52 --- nick: Tod-Autojoined -> TodPunk 05:30:26 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.9.212) joined #forth 05:30:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 06:02:52 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 06:39:51 --- quit: xpoqp (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 06:45:42 --- join: xpoqp (~xpo@xpotd.td.org.uit.no) joined #forth 06:54:51 --- quit: xpoqp (Changing host) 06:54:52 --- join: xpoqp (~xpo@unaffiliated/xpoqz) joined #forth 06:55:05 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:59:39 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 07:06:28 --- nick: dzho_ -> dzho 07:11:04 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@c-73-51-235-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:34:23 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-237-251.prtc.net) joined #forth 08:11:49 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 08:39:53 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 08:41:53 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:44:42 --- quit: darkf (Quit: Leaving) 08:49:12 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 08:49:58 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 09:10:44 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 09:22:02 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:25:27 --- quit: GElliot_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 09:33:37 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 09:33:39 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 09:41:00 --- quit: Zarutian (Remote host closed the connection) 09:52:42 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 10:22:13 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 10:30:15 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 11:11:38 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 11:19:28 --- quit: probonono (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:20:02 --- quit: johnmark_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:34:29 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@c-73-51-235-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:38:57 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 11:44:24 --- join: pgomes (~pgomes@ip923476d3.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 12:05:57 --- join: koo5 (~sirdancea@236.152.broadband3.iol.cz) joined #forth 12:32:06 --- join: denysonique (~quassel@genkt-058-186.t-mobile.co.uk) joined #forth 12:32:06 --- quit: denysonique (Changing host) 12:32:06 --- join: denysonique (~quassel@unaffiliated/dennisonicc) joined #forth 12:37:05 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@3.sub-174-234-64.myvzw.com) joined #forth 12:56:04 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:02:09 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 13:13:49 --- quit: johnmark_ (Quit: Leaving) 13:26:14 --- quit: denysonique (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 13:42:57 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 13:51:59 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip188619bb.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 13:52:03 hello 13:59:43 Mat4: hi 14:13:59 h'lo Mat4 and dzho 14:14:57 I have been looking a bit into virtualization and it looks like Forth based cpus are quite easy to add minimal virtualization support to. 14:15:22 hi dzho and Zarutian 14:18:21 basically primitive-instruction traps, traps on stacks under and overflows and trap on calls is all that is needed. 14:18:55 especially for something like ngaro vm (which retro uses). 14:19:56 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 14:22:17 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.9.212) joined #forth 14:22:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 14:22:44 the problem is mainly port accessing to CPU features which can't virtualized in a secure way 14:24:16 Mat4: port accessing? can you clarify? 14:26:43 using ngaro as a concrete example: the IN and OUT instructions can be trapped on and emulated by other code while the invoking code is none the wiser. 14:27:46 Ngaro uses virtual ports as interface to external libraries. Think of an OpenCL interface for example where stream processing is done on a GPU. This scenario is not virtualizable in an easy (and secure) way 14:27:59 to my current knowledge 14:28:41 --- join: johnmark_ (~johnmark@c-73-51-235-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:29:41 those virtual ports in ngaro can only be accessed via the IN and OUT instructions, so trapping on them (a trap is basically like a call, except it puts the cpu back in non-trapping mode and the return address point to the trapped instruction instead of the one after it) 14:34:44 you can handle both instructions this way of course. However the interface functionality must be handled too and because there functionality isn't defined this means that this can't be possible in all cases 14:35:14 indeed 14:36:31 so for virtualization it's better to declare useful interfaces with virtualization in mind 14:36:31 for instance the file access port would need some bit of programming to emulate or implement access control for 14:38:36 another shortcoming is that Ngaro does not declare an exception model (this can be emulated though a virtual timer unit) 14:38:42 but I thing all the ports that ngaro vm defines are easily virtualizable via the aforetold mechanism 14:38:59 that's for sure the case 14:39:24 exception model? like what do to when trying to DIVMOD with zero and such? 14:40:24 yes 14:40:45 that's an easy addition however 14:48:04 otherwise the VM will simply sigfault in such cases 14:48:31 http://paste.is/7865/27406393/ might be a solution to this 14:49:07 (note log readers that above paste expires one week from now) 14:50:47 nice interface ! 14:50:49 Zarutian, what are you wanting virtualization to do for you? 14:52:02 proteusguy: enable me to run unmodified ngaro code 14:52:20 proteusguy: from inside other ngaro code 14:53:44 I see multiple use cases, like support for coroutines 14:53:59 What's ngaro? Do you mean build a virtual machine or implement full virtualization? 14:54:43 ngaro is a definition of a virtual machine that retro compiles to and runs on 14:55:43 Cool - wonder how I managed to never run across that? :P 14:55:53 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 14:55:58 it's basical a MISC style instruction-set 14:56:28 30 primitives and everything above that is an call to that address 14:57:12 31 primitives (off by one errot by me) 15:05:03 I've added two extended primitves for compiling and calling native code 15:05:21 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-85-80.prtc.net) joined #forth 15:07:22 however because of lacking interest that extended version is not updated though some years by me 15:26:50 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:28:10 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:31:16 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com) joined #forth 15:31:48 --- quit: koo5 (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:45:45 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 15:49:16 --- join: koo5 (~sirdancea@236.152.broadband3.iol.cz) joined #forth 16:25:27 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 16:30:06 --- join: vsg1990 (~vsg1990@cpe-67-241-148-119.buffalo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 16:32:35 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 16:34:55 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:42:06 --- quit: pgomes (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:45:25 --- quit: Mat4 (Quit: Verlassend) 17:13:13 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 17:18:01 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:21:38 --- join: gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) joined #forth 17:26:28 --- nick: koo5 -> illegalsandminer 17:31:49 --- quit: carc (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 17:33:18 --- join: carc (~carc@unaffiliated/carc) joined #forth 17:46:11 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:56:21 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-84-16.prtc.net) joined #forth 18:02:30 --- join: xyh (~xyh@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 18:22:55 --- quit: gabriel_laddel (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18:25:18 --- quit: vsg1990 (Quit: Leaving) 18:32:22 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 18:40:43 --- quit: carc (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18:46:24 --- join: carc (~carc@unaffiliated/carc) joined #forth 19:08:00 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@unaffiliated/darkf) joined #forth 19:20:50 --- join: ttmrichter-xm (~ttmrichte@113.57.245.68) joined #forth 19:26:30 --- quit: ttmrichter-xm (Quit: ttmrichter-xm) 19:46:34 --- join: atommann (~atommann@58.251.2.94) joined #forth 20:00:38 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20:03:30 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-84-16.prtc.net) joined #forth 20:29:14 --- quit: johnmark_ (Quit: Leaving) 21:29:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 21:30:43 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:55:20 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22:04:32 --- join: karswell (~user@87.114.85.103) joined #forth 22:09:42 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22:42:51 --- quit: atommann (Quit: Leaving) 23:17:07 --- join: dys (~user@ip-109-44-41-75.web.vodafone.de) joined #forth 23:40:27 --- join: atommann (~atommann@58.251.2.94) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.03.26