00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.01.27 01:46:28 --- log: started forth/15.01.27 01:46:28 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 01:46:28 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | isforth.com | forthfreak.net | http://forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/ | www.greenarraychips.com' 01:46:28 --- topic: set by I440r!~mark4@cpe-192-136-220-10.tx.res.rr.com on [Thu Jan 02 15:51:09 2014] 01:46:28 --- names: list (clog lynx` true-grue protist denysonique +proteusguy beretta joneshf-laptop Bahman darkf Keshl TodPunk +crc djinni nighty^_ karswell` irsol ggherdov` DKordic` diginet MrMobius nottwo_ +KipIngram krainboltgreene jameseb gabc 17SABL1X4 tangentstorm newcup ttmrichter Guest94893 yunfan_ +bluekelp enthos bjorkintosh Vendan carc aksatac malyn quuxman_ nisstyre 7YUAAFJF9 yiyus dzho) 02:22:08 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@31.146.90.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 02:52:22 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~erhardt@93-43-152-240.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 02:53:47 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:58:35 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 03:09:02 --- quit: bluekelp (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 03:12:04 --- join: bluekelp (~bluekelp@2001:470:1:41:11aa:cfc9:cfef:301b) joined #forth 03:12:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v bluekelp 03:16:50 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:21:49 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04:11:44 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:17:43 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 04:17:56 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-68-45-16-225.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:36:23 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 04:51:27 --- join: saml_ (~saml@cpe-24-102-97-97.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 05:04:18 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~erhardt@93-43-152-240.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 05:05:58 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Ave atque vale) 05:10:00 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@89.41.21.166) joined #forth 05:22:25 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:57:14 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~erhardt@93-43-152-240.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 06:21:37 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 06:26:00 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 07:07:56 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:27:27 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 07:46:52 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@89.41.21.166) joined #forth 07:49:56 --- quit: darkf (Quit: Leaving) 08:16:34 --- join: gabc_ (~zag@skizzk.fr) joined #forth 08:19:33 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:19:34 --- quit: gabc (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:21:56 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@li611-52.members.linode.com) joined #forth 08:45:33 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 09:01:54 --- quit: fantazo (Read error: Connection timed out) 09:02:37 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 09:32:21 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 09:38:03 --- quit: 7YUAAFJF9 (Quit: "") 09:47:23 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:51:54 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-35.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 09:51:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 09:56:20 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~erhardt@93-43-152-240.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 10:07:20 --- quit: malyn (Disconnected by services) 10:07:38 --- join: aOJlsfctE (~malyn@server.strangegizmo.com) joined #forth 10:11:31 --- nick: aOJlsfctE -> malyn 10:31:55 --- nick: Guest94893 -> Hakkavelin 10:32:15 --- quit: Hakkavelin (Changing host) 10:32:15 --- join: Hakkavelin (~Polarina@unaffiliated/hv) joined #forth 10:35:18 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 10:35:40 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 10:50:36 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 10:52:23 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 11:19:04 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 11:29:12 --- quit: nisstyre (Changing host) 11:29:12 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 12:03:22 --- join: malyn_ (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 12:09:00 --- nick: gabc_ -> gabc 12:09:30 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~erhardt@93-43-152-240.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 12:20:00 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 12:24:17 --- quit: nighty^_ (Remote host closed the connection) 12:28:37 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 12:30:12 --- join: nighty^_ (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 12:45:21 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 12:48:18 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-35.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 12:48:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 13:02:29 anyone other than Chuck run a bare-hardware forth as his/her primary workstation? 13:06:42 bluekelp: Is there any point in it? :) 13:12:48 --- join: ehaliewicz (~user@204.11.226.50.static.etheric.net) joined #forth 13:13:17 true-grue: sure. have complete control of the hardware and a pure forth. all the "linux forths" are just high level apps - they can't do anything something written in python couldn't 13:14:17 plus, being close to the hardware is fun. i miss those days 13:14:51 i was intrigued by mention of Chuck having a CAD-like forth and using it to develop the GA chips. wondered how much "code" is actually involved in something like that 13:18:20 Well, being close to old and simple hardware is a good thing, of course, we all miss it. But being close to modern, complex "Python"-oriented hardware... tiny and simple Forth looks strange on top of all of this :) 13:20:12 yes. but then why run tiny simple forth on today's hardware except for retro-fun? 13:26:22 Well, there are some people who know only one language -- Forth. They like Forth because with it they may not know about programming and tools more than they need to solve their problems. 13:41:16 --- quit: malyn (Disconnected by services) 13:41:17 --- nick: malyn_ -> malyn 13:41:35 --- join: aIZr\`BnD (~malyn@server.strangegizmo.com) joined #forth 13:54:44 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144208238.atnat0017.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 13:56:30 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Remote host closed the connection) 14:01:19 Is there somethin akin to, say, "7 break", which will break out of seven nested if-then statements without needing to add more code to the program, oωo? 14:10:27 In unrelated news: Infinite loop + privelaged program + live server = absoutely terrifying. I can't even describe the amount of panic that hit me for a few seconds. x.x... 14:17:19 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:18:03 Keshl: "Don't do that." :p 14:18:34 Yes.. XD 14:19:03 "I don't always test my code but when I do, I do it in production." 14:19:15 I thought I had the instruction limit on! xwx... 14:19:23 It was supposted to be 80,000 lines, tops. NOPE. x.x 14:19:28 Er, instructions. 14:20:17 Fortiently, it was in debug mode, and the sendqueue blocks when it's full and it kept filling, thus only used about 45% of the CPU so I could just casually kill it. 14:25:06 what system is this? 14:25:26 --- join: protist (~javery@195.238.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 14:29:32 I'm not sure what you mean by "system". Sorry, I'm entirely self-taught and I use a weird-butt fork of Forth that's probably got different terms. Bare with me. x.x 14:30:29 The fork I use is called "MUF", short for "Multi-user forth". Basically it's one big giant REPL system, where many users can just inject code wherever and it'll start execution at the next loop. The actual hardware is a single-core CPU at about 2.5 ghz, about 1 gig of ram. 14:31:47 Due to the nature of systems like these, there's no real Googlable examples for actual /MUF/ stuff. The Helloworld on Wikipedia doesn't even /remotely/ compile on this system, for example. 14:32:14 But, it does encompass all of Forth's basic components, so sometimes I poke around here when I'm trying to find basic information or rant. -ω-. 14:36:53 hehe. is it running inside another OS or bare hardware? 14:37:28 It's virtualized, thankfully.. XD 14:37:48 Has to be. The environment it runs on is *anchient*. To put it simply, when it got /32-bit support/, that hit the headlines. 14:38:42 Haaaaaaah... Only two really obvious bugs left, after about 18 hours of work. o_o. And then I just gotta do this another six times or so! ='D! 14:42:51 ... Why didn't I ever think of replacing strings with $define's before today? It makes things so much less confusing. .ω. 14:47:02 Shiny! One left! .... One that's /really/ getting over my head, but, still! One! o_o! 14:47:37 Crud. Forgot an entire function. Scratch that. <.< 14:55:29 --- quit: saml_ (Quit: Leaving) 15:26:25 --- join: MrMobius_ (~MrMobius@149.160.160.72) joined #forth 15:52:58 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 16:27:26 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 16:34:51 Keshl: what is the system for? 16:39:54 Ish a MUCK, oωo. Basically a thing made for really hardcore roleplayers. 16:40:12 Some people describe it as a tripple-A game without graphics.". <ω< 16:45:43 a MUCK is similar to a MOO/MUD ? 16:47:18 heh. the wikipedia mentions MUF. 16:49:55 Yesh. -ω-. Except we focus more on roleplay, not on stats. 16:50:19 Rule zero is "If it ffeels right, just do it", and there's a command that says "Turn the game engine off and just post this exactly how I write it". <ω< 16:53:16 furry related? i didn't know this is where the fandom got its start. and related to forth no less. heh. 16:53:36 It is, oωo, but with sane, logical reasons! 16:53:43 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:53:48 Ones that'd take me ike four hourd to explain! (That's how you know the backstory's valid. <ω< >w>...) 16:53:52 *like 16:54:35 is the system linked to IRC? i notice words at the end that look a lot like forth word names 16:54:49 Nuh, oωo. I jus' type dis way. -ω-. 16:55:50 ah ok. how did you end up in MUF? bc of the muck? at first i thought you were maintaining an old legacy system at work for some niche vendor, etc. 16:56:49 Yes, oωo. Well, that /is/ a legacy system, and, er.. It's both, okay? XD 16:57:42 got it. i'm learning a lot of random things today :) 16:57:49 Shiny. -ω-. 16:59:10 is MUF "sector" based like traditional forths and how do you handle user security? 16:59:34 Whus dat mean, oωo? I really don't know any terms. xwx... 16:59:38 (i'm still reading about it on the wiki - any other links other than http://www.realityfault.org/programmer/docs/index.html i should check out?) 16:59:52 ( Yes -- Ours. Well, sorta.) 17:00:07 (Every MUCK is /so/ different that MUF knowledge basically isn't transferrable between worlds.) 17:00:35 that makes sense given how you'd make different "primitive" words and build upon them 17:01:01 ( Best advice is to pick a MUCK, ask to be made M1, then read their manual lots. oωo.) 17:01:42 well, for editing the system - creating new rooms or game mechanics - do you edit a file and restart the system, "load" those files and the system parses them, etc.? also, how does the system tell the admins from the general user and if any user can define new words, how do you keep them from hijacking the system, etc.? 17:01:57 M1 = privileged user? 17:02:43 Basically, oωo. There's M0 through M5, W1 through W5, and "nothing". 17:02:48 (Typically. For us, at least.) 17:03:19 "nothing" has no privlages to do /anything/. Can't even make a post without special help. It's generally used on objects that are meant to be read only by external programs, not generate their own events. 17:03:38 M0 is a regular user, for us at least. They can write in MPI, but not MUF. 17:04:14 M1 can do MUF, has a 20k instruction limit, all programs run as if they're setuid to the underprivelaged user, and any outpiut has that user's name prepended to it. 17:04:28 M2 doesn't have the setuid stuff, has /some/ access to more commands, and an 80k limit. 17:05:27 M3 isn't documented that great, apart from having a 320k limit. Sorry, mistake, m4 and m5 dun exist. <ω< 17:05:43 interesting. so you can script your own stuff but not effect change to the environment, etc. 17:06:05 w1 has no instruction limit and can set programs to autostart, W2 can change ownership of properties and stuff (But not of higher levels) and impersonate other users.. 17:06:32 so w* are the "wizard" levels? 17:06:42 W3 can read "@props". Basically, they're all read-only until you hit W3. W4 has filesystem access on the server its self outside the MUCK's sandbox, W5's root. oωo. 17:06:46 Si, oωo. 17:10:46 And sorry, didn't remember to ask your other thingy. xwx. So, no rebooting is needed. It's an REPL, so as soon as someone puts it it just becomes "live", so to speak. I think I answered the rest with M's and W's, oωo. 17:30:58 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 17:41:39 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:46:47 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 18:27:38 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@unaffiliated/darkf) joined #forth 18:29:20 --- quit: ehaliewicz (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 18:58:21 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 19:06:28 hrm, i kind of like the idea of a "pure forth" online environment. each user can have his/her own dict and the interpret loop can enforce security. 19:07:04 there was talk about a "forth bot" here a while ago. similar concept. 19:18:27 bluekelp: what do you mean by `online` ? you want someone host your dict and interpret on server side or just javascript side 19:19:31 we were talking about mucks, muds, mushes, etc. i like the forth-like nature of the muck and its MUF language 19:19:57 and wondered about a pure forth online environment in which the people create the world - but in as pure a forth as possible 19:20:12 mostly just thinking about the idea 19:21:36 should we update the /topic? neither isforth.com nor forthfreak.net are server much up to help people who drop by 19:21:44 serving* much up 19:25:54 oh, muds :] 19:26:20 i knew there're mmorpg game helping people learn java language 19:27:14 player need to use java like curse 19:27:36 but i think forth like language or SQL like language would be more suitable under such case 19:36:29 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:37:36 --- quit: mnemnion (Client Quit) 19:42:15 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:55:30 --- join: gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) joined #forth 20:11:32 --- quit: karswell` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:13:28 --- join: karswell` (~user@201.67.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 20:24:48 --- join: ehaliewicz (~user@50-0-50-166.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 20:32:09 --- quit: ehaliewicz (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 21:02:19 yunfan_: MUCKs are based on a Forth-like language. 21:05:16 --- join: ehaliewicz (~user@50-0-50-166.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 21:17:17 ttmrichter: but i dont like text-based game 21:23:08 Oh well. :) 21:26:33 i am too young to miss that kind of game 22:46:54 I'm 21. .ω. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.01.27