00:00:00 --- log: started forth/15.01.10 00:33:20 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.159.235.203) joined #forth 01:02:29 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 01:04:53 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 01:09:47 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 01:10:02 yes. 01:10:05 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 01:15:11 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@61.82.90.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 01:15:52 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 01:18:20 --- join: impomatic_ (~chatzilla@87.113.51.120) joined #forth 01:20:13 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 01:20:15 --- nick: impomatic_ -> impomatic 01:31:34 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 01:32:30 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@87.113.212.45) joined #forth 01:38:39 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 01:39:13 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@81.174.160.174) joined #forth 01:41:10 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 01:45:22 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 01:47:27 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144219084.atnat0028.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 02:01:26 --- join: true-grue (~grue@95-27-148-121.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 02:58:49 --- join: burper (~burper@66.131.140.82) joined #forth 02:58:49 --- part: burper left #forth 03:29:59 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 03:34:30 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:19:36 --- join: impomatic_ (~chatzilla@84.139.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 04:19:53 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:20:01 --- nick: impomatic_ -> impomatic 04:21:19 I440r: That would explain ASau for sure. 04:57:18 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 04:58:57 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@87.112.230.36) joined #forth 05:02:23 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Ave atque vale) 05:04:02 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 05:04:28 --- join: impomatic_ (~chatzilla@37.152.254.219) joined #forth 05:04:28 --- nick: impomatic_ -> impomatic 05:04:51 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.159.235.203) joined #forth 05:10:24 --- join: ravi_ (~ravi@222-154-118-105.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 05:12:52 --- nick: ravi_ -> chemuduguntar 05:16:46 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 05:18:56 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 05:23:17 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 05:32:24 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 05:41:23 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 06:00:06 --- join: burper (~burper@modemcable082.140-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 06:00:07 --- part: burper left #forth 06:01:35 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:03:00 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@139.6.208.46.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 06:25:49 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-236-22.prtc.net) joined #forth 06:27:09 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 06:47:35 --- join: impomatic_ (~chatzilla@220.35.200.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 06:47:45 --- join: saml_ (~saml@cpe-24-102-97-97.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 06:48:33 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 06:48:44 --- nick: impomatic_ -> impomatic 06:54:24 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:55:54 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.159.235.203) joined #forth 07:19:05 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 07:22:01 bjorkintosh: what is FPL? 07:31:19 lol @ ttmrichter 07:34:06 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 07:37:12 --- join: impomatic_ (~chatzilla@87.113.166.106) joined #forth 07:37:20 Functional Programing Language. 07:37:35 Languages like Haskell or Fortran or the MLs or Mercury (if you avoid the nondeterminism). 07:37:53 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 07:37:58 Argh! 07:38:06 Not Fortran. Erlang. 07:38:13 Brain said one thing, fingers typed another. 07:38:21 lol 07:38:31 so YOUR the one messing with my code! 07:39:10 To be fair I was reading a page that was describing the early days of Fortran, so my fingers were primed. 07:39:26 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 07:39:38 --- nick: impomatic_ -> impomatic 07:43:52 --- quit: darkf (Quit: Leaving) 07:57:42 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 08:02:05 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 08:07:01 --- quit: samrat (Remote host closed the connection) 08:10:51 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 08:12:44 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 08:18:50 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144218206.atnat0027.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 08:20:47 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 08:27:39 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 09:07:44 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 10:18:30 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 10:22:53 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 10:26:41 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 10:30:33 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 10:44:29 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-239-150.prtc.net) joined #forth 10:49:03 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:52:07 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11:05:31 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 11:27:27 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 12:05:11 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 12:21:52 --- join: _spt_ (~jaat@host-92-18-143-117.as13285.net) joined #forth 12:21:52 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 12:21:52 --- join: _spt_ (~jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 12:26:16 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.159.192.176) joined #forth 12:28:44 --- join: karswell` (~user@87.113.81.255) joined #forth 12:38:16 --- quit: chemuduguntar (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 12:41:27 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 12:41:41 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 12:45:37 --- join: Zarutian (~Adium@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 12:55:16 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 13:01:31 --- join: socash (~16Bitt@108-205-173-124.lightspeed.fyvlar.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 13:04:43 --- join: chemuduguntar (~ravi@222-154-118-105.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 13:22:18 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 13:26:05 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 13:52:43 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 13:56:29 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-239-150.prtc.net) joined #forth 14:03:01 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-72-50-86-240.prtc.net) joined #forth 14:05:22 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 14:28:14 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 15:15:45 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@98.223.189.47) joined #forth 15:23:01 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:38:58 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 15:43:30 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 15:44:21 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:59:11 is there a way to create a marker in gforth from within a definition? 16:07:45 <_spt_> maker? 16:08:00 <_spt_> marker? even! 16:08:51 I thin it's a way to forget things 16:08:58 marker thisplace 16:09:04 <_spt_> what kind of marker, just create a dummy word or a value. I done that befor 16:09:30 <_spt_> I just use : task ; 16:09:33 did you use defer? 16:10:06 <_spt_> and forget task. I'm old school forth, forth -79 ! 16:12:48 problem i am trying to solve is, i am creating data structures on the dictionary using allot 16:13:04 i want to be be able to rewind back to the start to clear my data 16:14:53 <_spt_> I not sure I can help you with that, but I guess you would keep an index pointer, a variable which tracks the start and just fill in the locations with 0's 16:22:53 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 16:24:40 --- quit: saml_ (Quit: Leaving) 16:30:47 i think they have marker foo then later you say foo 16:31:10 in my forths i have a way to set the fense to anything and i just say "empty" 16:31:49 spt forgetting is not that easy. you have to remove all the headers too, dont know of gforth keeps headers and code separate 16:32:27 dont really consider gforth a real forth anyway 16:35:15 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: zzZZ) 16:35:49 at a crunch you can have : forget-me ; 16:35:52 forget forget-me 16:38:05 it won't let me do this, : savepoint marker sp ; 16:38:25 because marker is a creating word i believe 16:38:33 marker sp 16:38:35 .... 16:38:36 .... 16:38:36 sp 16:38:50 marker creates a self forgetting word 16:40:48 --- quit: _spt_ (Quit: gone to fix a server for Staffc CC) 17:07:05 --- join: Zamenhof (~Greyhat@12.181.213.135) joined #forth 17:27:48 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 17:43:57 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Leaving.) 18:32:55 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:38:32 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 18:43:09 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 18:43:20 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:44:02 I440r: forth community is like cult community, there're always `real` forth :] 18:46:24 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-202.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 18:46:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 18:57:21 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 19:01:50 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 19:05:05 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 19:15:08 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 19:21:31 anyone have opinions on Object Oriented Forth by Pountain? 19:25:17 --- join: darkf (~darkf___@unaffiliated/darkf) joined #forth 19:33:47 --- join: noneofmynickswor (~mool@adsl-72-50-86-240.prtc.net) joined #forth 19:37:36 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 20:28:22 I do! 20:28:41 Adding object orientation to Forth is like adding object orientation to anything: a bad idea. :D 20:32:53 --- quit: noneofmynickswor (Quit: Leaving) 20:43:23 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 20:59:56 those involved in the Forth Scientific Library do not think so 21:01:49 https://www.taygeta.com/fsl/docs/fsl_structs.html 21:02:22 there is good OOP (smalltalk and Common Lisp) 21:02:35 and bad OOP (C++) 21:03:00 I don't think OOP in forth must necessarily be bad 21:12:59 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 21:13:39 --- join: gabriel_laddel (~user@2601:9:4f81:acb0:221:6aff:fea4:6db8) joined #forth 21:13:40 --- quit: gabriel_laddel (Changing host) 21:13:40 --- join: gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) joined #forth 21:31:29 --- quit: Savoyard (Quit: Be back later ...) 21:41:38 oop in forth might be a fun academic thing to do but it would not add anything to the language that it does not already have 21:41:44 other than excessive complexity 21:41:58 which is my biggest critisism of ans forth. ans forth makes fore more complex 21:42:35 yunfan, no my definition of a real forth pretty much disqualifies msot of my forths 21:43:16 My definition of "real forth" is "scratches an itch that its writer had". 21:43:38 if it cannot recompile itself its not a real forth 21:43:54 Ah, I haven't done one of those. 21:44:03 There's always a kernel written in the assembler. 21:44:12 well a metacompile is simple enough if you have the assembler extension 21:44:32 Yeah, but I've never really had a need for one so never bothered looking into it. 21:44:50 a meta compiler just compiles things to a target buffer, not as an extension to itself 21:45:14 Yeah, I know how to go about it in general. Just never done one. 21:45:44 if the need was there i doubt you would have any problems writing it 21:46:55 current forth I'm working on, I have a plan for a "compiler" that can take a word or wordlist and turn it into an executable file 21:47:17 so just recompile everything into a new wordlist, and there's the new forth 21:47:43 have you looked at tom zimmers tcom? its kinda old but a good example 21:47:46 it was for dos 21:48:10 I440r: Nah, back in my DOS days I was not really connected to the wider scene. Living in the middle of Outer Buttfuck kind of nuked that possibility. 21:48:14 it basically metacompiled your application code and the kernel all in one go but only included code that was used 21:48:47 I'm actually thinking of adding that as a v2 thing to InterForth (my current project). 21:49:11 Where you develop on the host, "compile" it into a .elf file that has ONLY the words you use, then upload that to the hardware. 21:49:15 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 21:49:18 That's for the really restrictive environments. 21:49:39 its just a simple form of deadwood removal 21:49:51 just dont put the deadwood in there to begin with :) 21:49:57 Where the dead wood includes the toplevel. 21:50:04 There wouldn't be a console. 21:50:26 Among other things. 21:51:30 anyone ever go through Knuth's Art of Computer programming and try to do the algos in forth? 21:51:42 heh over my head 21:53:39 well it depends on how he describes the algorithms 21:53:55 i can implement any algoritm i understand 21:54:12 quite well, at least in my opinion 21:54:13 --- quit: mnemnion () 21:54:14 he uses an assembly language MIX (now MMIX for 32 bit) 21:54:35 he is still alive? 21:54:53 yes afaik. 21:55:00 still working on another vol. of AOCP 21:55:12 how many are there 21:55:26 4 thick vols. 21:55:38 ive seen them in the book store 21:55:56 they are impressive books to look at lol 21:56:06 never looked IN one tho 21:56:29 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@142-254-26-6.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 21:56:50 he was supposed to have one on parsing and compiler algos, but it hasn't come out yet 21:56:56 who knows if he will get to it. 21:57:31 ive never seen any parsers written in any other language that are as elegant as ones written in forth 21:58:20 http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~uno/taocp.html 21:58:38 Prolog is very nice for writing parsers. 21:58:52 Lisp too. 21:59:03 forth, prolog, and lisp have a lot in common 21:59:26 I've never seen a parser written in forth, got any handy examples? 21:59:52 ive implemented a shortest path in forth 22:00:43 and skip lists 22:01:06 did a region flood fill back in the 80's 22:02:02 --- join: MrMobius_ (~MrMobius@2601:f:400:1241:f922:564c:a111:3bb) joined #forth 22:03:51 a parser in forth would be interesting 22:06:09 --- join: spoofer (~cruella@72.10.28.164) joined #forth 22:06:55 --- quit: spoofer (Client Quit) 22:15:15 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 22:19:46 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22:26:57 Prolog is very nice for parsing, yes. Functional languages like SML are also good for it. 22:27:06 Especially if you build a combinator library for it. 22:27:12 (Or use someone else's built one.) 22:31:32 --- quit: MrMobius_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 22:42:45 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 22:46:10 I440r, I'd love to see your skiplist implementation. 22:46:58 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:49:36 Regarding OO in forth - I'm a big fan of proper OO which is independent little "computers" sending messages back and forth to each other versus the standard implementation of class-oriented computing. 22:51:15 To do proper OO you're really thinking contexts and roles. You'd basically attach a local dictionary for the object in your dict stack and some encapsulated local data and then use words as interactions between these contexts and you have proper OO. 22:56:00 --- join: Proteus-android (~androirc@49.230.178.13) joined #forth 23:16:36 --- quit: Zamenhof (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:20:34 proteusguy: The class-and-object crap was an implementation detail when Kay put forth OOP as a concept. 23:20:46 So of course the industry missed the point and thought the implementation detail was OOP. 23:33:47 Yep pretty much. But now there's an architectural style called SCI that is trying to fix that. 23:34:12 DCI not SCI. My autocorrect is playing games. 23:35:40 I just stay away from imperative systems in general. 23:35:49 Outside of embedded space, I mean. 23:36:01 In embedded space you don't have much choice. :) 23:36:28 But there, I work with things so small that the "benefits" of OOP really don't add up. 23:38:22 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:39:25 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 23:48:36 I did a lot of C++ using templates in embedded space and got better objct code optimizations than plain old C and far better source code size. Just gotta know your tools. 23:49:06 Naturally we didn't use virtual stuff or exceptions. 23:52:45 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/15.01.10