00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.12.19 00:03:25 --- join: protist (~javery@69.176.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 00:06:47 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:19:20 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-74.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 00:19:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 00:26:04 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 00:45:48 --- join: Savoyard (~Savoyard@unaffiliated/savoyard) joined #forth 00:50:36 --- quit: Savoyard (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 00:55:59 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144192220.atnat0001.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 01:11:43 proteusguy, it doesnt have an assembler ext yet but it compiles to native code. 01:12:24 ill be more than happy to send u the sources but you would need to put a non debian on the pi or i will need to fix fsave lol 01:13:02 ill need to email it to email it tho 01:15:20 hmmm... don't think I have a non-debian linux for it unfortunately. 01:16:02 how do I read/write/edit files/blocks in isforth btw? use command doesn't exist and I'm not aware of an editor. 01:17:55 --- join: true-grue (~grue@95-27-186-64.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 01:18:10 mark4, actually I've been meaning to try out xbps on my rpi so perhaps that would work? 01:18:37 if it is not based on debian probably 01:19:00 it's a from scratch low resource linux. 01:19:26 my email is my handle at gmail. 01:19:29 and working on debian can be achieved 01:19:47 kk gimme a sec, im under a cat 01:20:07 like "attack" but fury 01:20:18 mark4, meanwhile I'm playing around with isforth and can't figure out blocks/files/editing presently. 01:20:28 cat == very aggressive tribble with claws. 01:20:45 oh there is no blocks feature and no built in editor 01:21:08 this one has teeth too! lol 01:21:39 mark4, so one needs to create external .f files and include them in somehow? 01:21:44 i wrote a block file editor for the DOS version of isforth 01:22:03 include is done with fload. look in src/isforth.f 01:22:07 i encourage a load file 01:22:32 you write your application and fload the pieces parts to it 01:22:43 if you want to make a stand alone executable 01:22:47 ok thanx. strange not to have blocks in forth. :P but makes sense for a specifically linux targeted system. 01:22:47 do... 01:23:15 a block mechanism is doable 01:24:00 isforth is an indirect threaded forth? 01:24:27 no. its direct threaded 01:24:37 the raspi version is subroutine threaded/native 01:24:51 if i create some words at the command line and what to save them how can I write them to a file? is that possible? 01:26:06 not anything thats built in 01:26:07 it could be done tho 01:26:07 hrm 01:26:08 there IS a command histroy, might be able to modify that :) 01:26:20 how can I view the command history? 01:27:42 does cursor up work for u? 01:27:46 i dont think the history is saved presently 01:27:52 but it COULD be 01:28:26 if cursor up==up arrow then no it doesn't. 01:28:37 in fact that's something I'd very much like. :) 01:28:39 --- join: Azel (~Thunderbi@ANice-653-1-542-113.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 01:31:04 Here's the command I have to use to run isforth: TERM=xterm-utf8 ./isforth 01:31:51 ok what happens? 01:32:34 it works for me 01:33:20 ok no cursor up arrow means you need to type this 01:33:22 skmx 01:33:27 then cursor up will work 01:33:37 cursor up and down 01:33:38 scherrey@redsky:~/develop/forth/isforth-1.24b$ ./isforth 01:33:38 Unknown TERM: /usr/share/terminfo/x/xterm 01:33:38 Au Revoir! 01:33:56 you dont have a terminfo database for it in /usr/share/terminfo 01:34:06 do you have ANY terminfo databases in that location? 01:34:30 debian for example stupidly puts some terminfo databases in /lib/terminfo 01:34:34 its ok for them to PUT them there 01:34:39 its stupid for them to MOVE them there 01:34:52 if thats where your terminfo databases are then do 01:35:07 yes tons just not one that only says xterm. 01:35:16 cp -r /lib/terminfo/* /usr/share/terminfo/ 01:35:21 look in /lib/terminfo 01:35:24 see if it is in there 01:36:02 ah indeed there is /lib/terminfo/x/xterm 01:36:09 skmx is the name of a terminfo format string 01:36:13 you running debian? 01:36:23 kubuntu - which is derived from debian 01:36:41 yea thats debian - you WILL be able to run the packaged isforth 01:36:51 I built from source. 01:36:58 wait. you DID? 01:37:01 skmx is not a known command in isforth 01:37:08 smkx? 01:37:14 yes 01:37:15 smkx 01:37:29 ah that's much better. :) 01:37:35 theres a way to get isforth to do that for you as you launch it 01:37:52 yes I saw your startup forth file. 01:38:08 yea. copy that to ~/.isforth.rcf 01:38:21 with the skmx line not commented out 01:38:30 just ignorant about the commands. wish there was a nice help system that I could query word source/docs. 01:38:38 thanx. 01:38:40 well you have "words" 01:38:48 yes haha and a lot of them. 01:38:50 and a help system would be a good idea 01:39:04 yes lol 01:39:19 theres .vocs displays a list of currently defined vocabularies 01:39:25 .context displays the context stack 01:39:26 would be nice to do ? and have it show you it's source. 01:39:34 .current displays where definitions go 01:39:56 yea that is slightly more difficult but not impossible 01:40:13 but it would mean storing source name and line number in the words header 01:40:22 thats called a view 01:40:32 i used to have "see blah" 01:40:38 and it would decompile it 01:40:42 but see is broken right now 01:40:52 I see... pardon the pun. 01:41:23 it should be in src/ext/debug/bugsee.f 01:41:46 the debugger is broken presently, i was fixing it but never completed the fix 01:42:21 theres no debug or see in the arm version 01:42:21 that would take a disassembler lol 01:42:44 isforth has a disassembler now? 01:42:58 ive been out of work for almost 3 years, my bank account is down to its last $50. i just got a contract where ill be paid $1200 on completion 01:43:01 no no disassembler 01:43:11 it doesnt have any assembler either, thats another thing i was working on 01:43:22 but this contract is my primary focus right now 01:43:27 I mean the x86 one. 01:43:37 Understand. Is your contract a forth thing? 01:43:39 yea it doesnt. it needs one tho 01:43:56 no actually its C for an embedded arm board 01:44:26 http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=FRDM-K22F 01:44:39 that board. plus a wifi plugin module 01:45:01 its running the MQX operating system. and thers some deep dark secret black magic going on 01:45:17 i can rebuild the entire MQX operating system for this board (open soruce) 01:45:26 i can build the wifi modules example code and run it 01:45:28 but 01:45:45 the example code uses an IOCTL on the wifi board that does NOT exist anywhere in the MQX soruce tree 01:45:56 there is literally NO definition for it but it uses it 01:46:01 my application code can not 01:46:04 also. 01:46:19 the vendor hired you or someone trying to use the board? 01:46:21 thers iwcfg.h <-- wifi configuration for setting bssid, power etc 01:46:30 a vendor 01:46:59 i can build my soruces #include but the iwcfg.o module is NEVER linked against 01:47:06 more black magic bullshit 01:47:18 the build system is the IAR workbench for arm 01:47:27 well. i just installed the crossdev arm gcc 01:47:49 and now im building the MQX os with my gentoo build system for arm 01:48:07 i have to create the makefiles for the demo application and build that next 01:48:15 don't know anything about MQX. Not one I've ever encountered. I kinda like the arm however. 01:48:30 the MQX embedded OS is pretty good! 01:48:39 i think freescale own it now 01:48:52 this arm is a freescale device 01:49:03 yes I see. pretty good price too. 01:49:11 the last guy they hired to do this job couldnt do it 01:49:30 they hired me and when my boss found out i was flat broke... he paid me half up front 01:49:58 what work/job had you been doing before? full timer or freelance? 01:49:59 but ill have to spend most of that getting new tires for my car, i had a flat and i know the tires that are on there need replacing 01:50:26 i dont have any degree, getting coding jobs is difficult so i work as a consultant. agencies place me here or there 01:50:39 i have literally worked in most of the states at one time or another 01:50:49 east podunk idaho one day. mahwah new jersey the next 01:50:55 doing what tech primarily? 01:51:03 low level realtime embedded control 01:51:14 on any processor, with or without an embedded os 01:51:32 small community but they don't appreciate software as much as hardware... where you living now? 01:51:59 well i WOULD be on the streets begging for food by now other than a good christian friend of mine gave me a place to stay 01:52:02 im in dallas texas 01:52:37 Ah I used to live in DFW. The rare times I get back to USA I typically spend a week there with friends. Nice place. 01:52:37 if i can complete this job i would like to try port that ARM forth to THUMB2 (should be doable0 01:52:49 where are you now? 01:53:23 i need to learn thumb2 first tho lol. i only know ARM asm 01:53:24 Bangkok. I have a software development group here in Asia but our clients are around the world. Webservices primarily. Unfortunately don't get asked to do embedded work but I used to love it. 01:53:44 wow! 01:53:45 thumb is a PITA but good for staying tiny. 01:54:02 thumb2 is 16 and 32 bit opcodes 01:54:03 You do any FPGA stuff? 01:54:07 no :/ 01:54:10 thats hardware lol 01:54:16 i cant think hardware 01:54:35 Well it's both now - which makes it cool. Think of verilog as a C-like lang where every line of code executes at the same time. ;) 01:55:04 its a description lang, its a way to describe hardware... lol 01:55:08 its a hardware problem :P 01:55:21 do you run that software house? 01:55:23 I'm kind of interested in trying to design some stack machines with specialized feature handling. 01:55:37 Yes. http://proteus-tech.com we have just over 30 people now. 01:56:04 aha i see your photo lol 01:57:16 would kirit like to see my Android forth? lol 01:57:31 but no one's paying me to do this stack machine stuff - it's just my personal interest. who knows though - it could be something worth money one day. 01:57:33 its not ready for release yet, there might be some bugs left 01:57:43 yea 01:57:45 I'd like to see it. 01:58:43 its indirect threaded, had to be because of the android security model 01:58:53 cant run code from data space. cant write to code space 01:58:56 idea is to build hardware that is designed to run my software architecture (which is forth-like). Right now the opposite is the case for almost all projects. So code can be small, simple, and powerful with machine's helping enforce the architecture rather than work against it. 01:59:13 yea 02:00:00 I see. Right now I'm very curious about dealing with processors that can help address the fact that most apps are memory bus bandwidth limited rather than computationally limited. 02:00:19 yea 02:00:43 but that will always be the case i think 02:00:55 unless they come up with some new memory tech 02:01:03 I think stack machines with some specialized buses run in parallel can really do something new. Code size is super tiny and sits in local cpu memory and be able to move data on/off local stacks via specialized buses. 02:01:32 you need to talk to CM lol 02:01:40 CM? 02:01:57 chuck moore lol 02:02:06 you look tough as nails you do any martial arts? 02:03:05 Ah right - haha. Never anything serious. 02:03:44 what made you pick bangkok 02:04:01 Anyway - wanna try to prove some of my concepts via FPGA and language design then, if they seem worthy, do an ASIC of it. 02:04:27 yea cool. i could probably learn to do that but im a slow learner and a slow developer lol 02:04:36 I knew I wanted to build a team in Asia and Reuters asked me to build them one in BKK. I said I would do that for 2 years then start my own company and they agreed so here I am. 02:05:11 i would like to port my arm forth to thumb2 and make FORTH the embedded OS on that frdm 02:05:27 but i wont be doing that unless i complete this contract and they keep me on to do more work 02:05:39 i could port the entire board support to forth 02:05:49 I know how that works... haha gotta get the paid work done. 02:06:18 How long til you done with this one? 02:07:53 well i have been working on this for over a week and the estimate was for a week but like i said im the second guy to be brought on to do this 02:08:29 and im just now making headway. as of last night i am now building the MQX os in my linux 02:08:43 i just have to create the makefiles for the demo application 02:08:56 this will require i reverse engineer some precompiled object modules however 02:09:08 but thats a hoby of mine any way :) 02:09:34 if i can build the wifi demo code i can them build the wifi application they want me to build 02:09:43 just create an app on the device that sends a message to their servers 02:10:03 if i can do that then i can write a REAL app on the device that connects to their servers 02:10:15 they sort of do data mining 02:10:31 good luck! 02:10:42 yea im going to need it... and some divine help :) 02:11:26 but this guy just bought my loyalty, like i said, he paid me half up front when he found out my financial dire straights 02:11:50 then hopefully when you deliver you'll get more work. 02:12:33 thats the plan 02:12:39 the cat on the other hand has other ideas 02:12:47 im being purred at again 02:13:49 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:13:55 * proteusguy always owned dogs. :) 02:14:23 this isnt my cat but im a cat guy and it has bonded with m3 lol 02:14:31 i like dogz too 02:15:45 u get the arm forth? 02:17:03 --- join: true-grue (~grue@95-27-186-64.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 02:18:22 yes I did thanx. Will have to get that non-debian linux going on my RPi before I can try it. Will let you know once I have the chance. Thanx. 02:18:50 does it have block support or is it the same as isforth x86? 02:20:05 no block support 02:20:06 erm 02:20:22 you want the sources to my DOS version of siforth? that has a cheezy block editor in it lol 02:20:35 i should add block file support to isforth, it wouldnt be that difficult 02:20:56 well I mean how do I get forth code into it? same as isforth x86, correct? 02:21:05 you would say 02:21:16 ./isforth -fload source.f 02:21:18 or 02:21:20 ./isforth 02:21:28 fload source.f 02:21:41 gotcha. cool. look forward to playing with it. 02:23:37 proteusguy, you can always ask me any questions related to using isforth 02:23:48 its not that difficult but theres a lot in there 02:24:15 i tried to keep the design modular so that people could learn the system more easily 02:24:30 yeah I was able to figure most things out but a few missing bits had me confused. appreciate the help. 02:24:48 You code was quite clean. I prefer nasm as my assembler as well. 02:25:00 hate the AT&T syntax of gnu asm. 02:25:01 the arm vesion is gcc :/ 02:25:05 damn 02:25:12 the nasm macros are MUCh cleaner 02:25:19 I miss 6809 asm. 02:25:28 but gcc worked. i didnt use the at&t syntax tho. i used intel syntax 02:25:31 SANE syntax 02:25:34 ok well cool. 02:25:37 indeed 02:26:01 it's the at&t vs intel syntax that's my biggest issue. intel's much better. 02:26:25 at&t is because the original gnu assembler was for 68k 02:30:53 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 03:15:28 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 03:16:40 --- join: Ardeshir (~Ardeshir@5.119.66.176) joined #forth 03:19:38 --- quit: Ardeshir (Client Quit) 03:49:01 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 03:51:25 I remember when it was a big deal that the GNU project wasn't going to bother with 16-bit machines and instead target 32-bit 03:51:39 of course, that was a wise choice in retrospect 03:53:44 --- join: protist 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