00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.11.25 00:12:08 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@46.209.222.130) joined #forth 00:16:18 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00:16:19 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.139.197) joined #forth 00:45:58 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@84.241.8.144) joined #forth 00:47:35 --- quit: PoppaVic (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 01:51:46 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 02:01:52 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 02:20:11 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 02:20:27 --- join: samrat (~samrat@182.72.122.6) joined #forth 02:41:04 --- join: true-grue (~grue@128-68-26-199.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 02:49:30 --- quit: TodPunk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:50:05 --- join: TodPunk (~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 03:30:32 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 04:19:20 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 05:15:52 --- quit: TodPunk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:15:57 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 05:31:31 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 05:39:32 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 05:58:09 --- quit: vanila (Quit: Leaving) 06:05:00 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.114.33.233) joined #forth 06:07:53 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 06:11:59 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 06:14:53 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 06:52:29 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 07:58:53 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 08:14:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-244.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 08:21:17 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 09:04:24 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:16:50 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@c-76-31-212-235.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:37:11 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:38:04 --- join: PoppaVic (~pops@unaffiliated/poppavic) joined #forth 09:59:46 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 10:04:10 --- join: DKordic (~user@109-93-184-117.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 10:44:48 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 10:45:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 10:49:54 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 11:15:10 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 11:15:31 --- join: Mat4 (~claude@ip5b414c9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 11:15:35 hello 11:15:46 h'lo 11:16:07 hi Zarutian 11:16:34 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 11:17:38 ASau: thank you mentioned that paper, quite useful read 11:21:09 : 2DUP OVER OVER ; : half-adder 2DUP AND >R XOR R> ; : LSHT $7FFF AND $0001 LBR ; : addStep LSHFT half-adder ; : UM+v2 half-adder addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep addStep ; 11:21:55 LBR := LeftBitRotate 11:23:13 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 11:32:56 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 11:36:21 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:41:09 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 11:44:32 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 11:45:08 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 11:49:35 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 11:55:49 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 11:57:03 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 12:16:05 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 12:16:40 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 12:21:05 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 12:21:55 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 12:38:35 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 12:49:17 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 13:19:22 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 13:37:16 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 13:37:55 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 13:38:27 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:38:57 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 13:39:38 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 13:47:54 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 13:48:29 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 13:53:02 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:55:24 --- join: beretta (~beretta@cpe-65-185-42-203.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #forth 14:07:49 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@88.98.199.146.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 14:32:03 --- quit: impomatic_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 14:33:36 --- quit: carc (Quit: QUIT) 14:33:49 --- part: Mat4 left #forth 14:38:14 --- join: carc (~carc@unaffiliated/carc) joined #forth 15:06:47 --- quit: beretta (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:15:50 --- join: vanila (~user@unaffiliated/vanila) joined #forth 15:23:53 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 15:32:21 --- join: beretta (~beretta@cpe-65-185-42-203.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:35:59 --- join: MrJoestar (~lucas@186.223.33.123) joined #forth 15:36:44 I'm trying to do square root in forth. How can I do that? I've searched for a function that can do that and I found nothing. Thanks. 15:36:50 --- join: rcny (~rcny@2804:14c:3ba8:27d:8638:35ff:fe62:14c0) joined #forth 15:37:21 hello there 15:39:24 Can I write an OS using Forth? 15:39:45 to compete with Linux and BSD 15:39:50 No. 15:40:50 Ok thank you. 15:41:06 you can but then you have to figgure out all kind of stuff not usually in the base wordset of most forths 15:42:16 MrJoestar: http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=259987 http://www.codecodex.com/wiki/Calculate_an_integer_square_root#C 15:43:42 and ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/.../91040a.pdf 15:45:57 and https://archive.org/details/Forth_Dimension_Volume_04_Number_1 15:48:47 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@67.164.37.196) joined #forth 15:53:22 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 15:57:25 oh cool. i didn't realize archive.org had stuff like this scanned too! 16:02:38 --- quit: rcny (Quit: Saindo) 16:07:52 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:32:14 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:49:09 --- join: saml_ (~saml@pool-71-190-3-251.nycmny.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 16:56:49 bluekelp: I got pissed after grabbing V1-6 - the rest is autodownloading and I'll tarball that. I've only a few years of originals 16:57:05 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:28:18 sheesh 17:28:41 I'm away from the channel for a while, and shit like that interaction with rcny happens 17:28:52 ASau: you should be ashamed of yourself 17:31:04 one certainly can write an OS in Forth and it's at the very least misleading to tell someone they can't 17:32:07 often the Forth interpreter/compiler *is* the OS... but nothing stops one from writing an OS in Forth. Except, of course, stupid answers like yours 17:33:19 bluekelp, Hello 17:34:50 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 17:35:07 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~quassel@93-43-163-57.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 17:38:31 Hi 17:38:49 howdy 17:39:00 I think we should ban DGASAU/ASau because he is nasty to everyone and hates forth 17:39:18 he has been constantly horrible to people for weeks 17:39:43 every time I come here i see him bullying and insulting new people 17:42:05 http://lpaste.net/115058 17:42:31 i think if you agree that he is excessively poisonous here then /msg bluekelp to agree with me 17:42:33 --- join: DKordic` (~user@178-221-78-59.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 17:42:48 because currently it is thought of as not bad enough to ban, would be excesively strict - but I think that it really is fair to do so 17:43:04 please do not /msg me unless you are really really uncomfortable stating your opinions in public 17:43:24 bluekelp, it will deter people to comment if they have to state it publically because then the troll can see it and attack them 17:43:32 maybe PM me about it then I can relay to bluekelp 17:43:39 I mean I have seen him just being outrageously mean for no reason and talked in PM to them 17:43:52 and they're like "I have no idea why he comes here if he hates forth" 17:44:00 and "he does this for years" 17:44:13 --- quit: DKordic (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 17:45:39 i eyeballed the lpaste URL above and its contents match my recollection 17:45:49 lol ok 17:45:56 "discuss amongst yourselves" 17:45:58 implying I am trying to edit logs? 17:46:28 no, i stated that to be open about the convo in case anyone would doubt it 17:47:45 DocPlatypus: one cannot write an OS that competes to any of BSDs. 17:47:52 Let alone linux-based one. 17:47:54 sure one can 17:48:05 Prove it then. :) 17:48:05 what prevents you? 17:49:04 I could understand if you said that in #freebsd or #openbsd or #netbsd or #linux or whatever 17:49:09 but not in #forth 17:49:24 the proof is simple: for every line of c code in bsd, there is an equivalent line of forth code. 17:49:42 I guess you guys are discussing whether you can write BSD In forth or something 17:49:44 that's not really the point here 17:50:15 tangentstorm: that's only theory, try doing that. 17:50:32 no thanks. 17:50:41 See? 17:50:42 the burden is on you to prove it can't be done. 17:50:45 That's why you cannot. :) 17:51:04 vanila: it was from earlier. such is the nature of IRC convos. also the last time i saw ASau chime in. seems apropos to me. 17:51:05 "It can't be done" doesn't require proof. 17:51:07 your lack of understanding of basic logic doesn't prevent me from doing anything. :) 17:51:08 anyway I hope that even if ASau isn't banned for being consistently nasty and worthless maybe he will improve a little 17:51:09 It's negative statement. 17:53:40 what brings you to #forth, vanila ? 17:53:49 forth 17:54:47 okie doke. good talk. :) 17:55:03 :/ 17:57:10 i meant.. like.. what got you interested in forth? :) 17:58:57 just because one programmer is unwilling to do it, does not make it impossible, and certainly does not prove that it is not possible 17:59:47 and as to what brings me here... I'm a hobbyist programmer who happens to admire the novel way that Forth does things. I miss the days of BASIC, of being able to try something by putting it in the interpreter 17:59:54 tangentstorm: btw, before appealing to "basic logic" you'd better learn it yourself ;) 18:01:27 In particular, your "the burden is on you to prove it can't be done" is classical fallacy. 18:02:30 I would already be writing code, but I have no use at present for an OS that proves the concept 18:05:00 --- nick: Tod-Autojoined -> TodPunk 18:15:17 bluekelp: I grabbed all the issues, sorted by volume, symlink by year. Tarballed. You want a link when it's done synching dropbox? 18:17:58 --- quit: MrJoestar (Quit: Leaving) 18:20:33 please. how large is the file? 18:21:33 So is anyone here doing any Forth on Github? 18:22:28 bluekelp: and STILL synching dropbox ;-) 18:22:58 ricky_ricardo: I use Github and I am designing a Forth-like language (although it is becoming more and more less Forth-like) :: https://github.com/cicada-language/ 18:23:30 ricky_ricardo: and there are lot of repos about forth on Github 18:23:53 xyh: Very cool! 18:23:54 ricky_ricardo: https://github.com/tangentstorm 18:25:17 Just starred your repo 18:25:30 Very cool to see people writing Opensource with FORTH 18:26:16 "with Forth" - bwahahaha ;-) 18:26:47 ricky_ricardo: thx, and this :: https://github.com/crcx?tab=repositories 18:27:37 ricky_ricardo: the author is also in here 18:28:18 ricky_ricardo: and https://github.com/slavapestov/factor 18:36:22 ASau: you just say NO to a person who wish to "write an OS using Forth" ... I feel so sad about that, and I wish I were there at that time ... (if you could give some concrete advises and reasons, some concrete criticism on Forth, to that person, it will be much better.) 18:36:28 when I new person comes into #forth, he assumes people in #forth are Forth experts, and they like Forth. if even such a people say "NO" to him, how would he thinks ... 18:36:40 * a new person 18:39:44 my advise is that, to new person coming here, you leave that kinds of questions to other people. (if your answer is just a "NO") 18:40:58 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~RodgerThe@24-113-134-96.wavecable.com) joined #forth 18:42:05 Other people will invoke logical fallacies even only to give incorrect answer that is aligned to their wishes. 18:42:38 So, no. Your advice is wrong. 18:45:45 right now if I could /kick ASau I would 18:46:18 You have to understand that ASau is incapable of changing his mind about anything. 18:46:25 right 18:46:30 my advise is very personal (with my good wishes to you too). and I think I can talk with the person who is new to forth and wish to write an OS in Forth, without invoke logical fallacies into him. 18:46:59 He is a severely limited individual and unable to see that other people can do things that he can't. 18:47:07 and unfortunately, the age-old IRC advice of using /ignore only makes the problem that much more dangerous 18:47:13 So if he can't do something, it must be impossible. 18:48:32 There's no point arguing with someone who isn't interested in (or capable of) learning something new. 18:48:55 Except maybe just for fun. :) 18:49:19 have any of you folks played around with K? 18:49:28 RodgerTheGreat!!! 18:49:33 hi tangentstorm 18:49:43 * tangentstorm uses j quite a bit. 18:49:54 it's been a while since I stopped by freenode 18:50:02 I ought to put it back in my usual rotation 18:50:24 there are some k fans in #jsoftware (no k channel afaik) 18:50:29 tangentstorm: I've tinkered with J several times but I'm finding K cleaner and simpler to work with 18:50:44 an APL with nicely integrated anonymous functions is huge 18:50:53 what is K? 18:51:14 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:51:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_(programming_language) 18:52:00 like many APLs the official implementation is a commercial product but there is an open source dialect: https://github.com/kevinlawler/kona 18:52:39 I'm finding many parallels between the attitude of K's author and that of chuck moore based on some interviews I've read 18:53:07 i have a start on a forth inner interpreter in j: https://github.com/sabren/b4/blob/master/go/b4.ijs 18:53:32 that's neato 18:53:37 looks pretty terrible without syntax highlighting :/ 18:53:57 APL dialects have a tendency to resemble line noise and be impossible to skim 18:54:26 not entirely unlike forth for the uninitiated 18:54:40 that would take me a while to learn 18:55:10 it's one of those languages that looks like something between hieroglyphics and chicken scratch at first glance 18:55:15 yeah 18:55:32 (!R)@&{&/x!/:2_!x}'!R -- I mean, say *what*?! 18:55:57 I just started seriously trying to pick up K maybe a week ago and after doing some exercises I'm starting to be able to read it fairly easily but dense expressions can trip me up 18:56:13 I imagine it's sort of like learning to visualize the stack 18:56:18 --- join: xyh (~user@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 18:56:24 eventually larger and larger phrases make sense to you 18:56:40 * tangentstorm has definitely found that to be the case. 18:56:57 is that real K code, DocPlatypus ? 18:57:08 let's see 18:57:18 assuming R is a scalar 18:57:33 !R generates a list 0 1 .. (R-1) 18:57:34 at first i thought you were quoting my j but that's not valid j 18:58:00 ' is "each", we're applying a monad to the list 18:58:11 the {} is the monad 18:58:20 you can tell because it uses the name x inside 18:59:04 tangentstorm: why surprise to see RodgerTheGreat ?? 18:59:05 x, y and z, if used in a function body make that function monadic, dyadic or triadic, respectively and act as automatic arg names (you can specify an arglist explicitly if you want) 18:59:29 xyh: i read about him in story books as a child, but i never knew he was real until today. :D 18:59:39 anyway I'm probably rambling to nobody but suffice to say it's valid K 18:59:58 cool 19:00:19 * tangentstorm attempts to decipher it then. 19:00:40 if you want an absurdly concise manual: http://kparc.com/k.txt 19:00:54 if you want an actual manual: http://web.archive.org/web/20050504070651/http://www.kx.com/technical/documents/kreflite.pdf 19:03:55 some things are overloaded to an inconvenient degree and the language has some sharp corners but I like many of its ideas 19:03:57 it's a prime number generator 19:04:18 yeah that seems about right 19:05:13 enumerate all the divisors, see what mods to zero, extract those indices, map them back to the original list 19:06:15 they could have done something like S@&{&/x!/:2_!x}'S:!R and reused that sequence 19:07:16 tangentstorm: that was straight from the Wikipedia article 19:07:23 hm 19:07:29 cool 19:07:36 oh and this filter thinks 0 and 1 are prime numbers 19:07:38 haha 19:07:49 RodgerTheGreat: where is an open K implementation ? 19:08:00 kona on github 19:08:09 kona is K ? 19:08:09 https://github.com/kevinlawler/kona 19:08:12 yeah 19:08:23 I think it's best described as a "K dialect" 19:08:27 it tries to be K 19:08:33 how hard would it be to write a K implementation in Forth? 19:08:43 that's an interesting question 19:08:48 might be doable 19:09:00 as always in forth memory management is the big challenge 19:09:30 embedding it as a DSL would be a challenging exercise 19:10:10 I remember I have readed K's author interviews Joy's author one day 19:10:15 the main feature of apl/j/k is the ability to work on multiple values simultaneously. 19:10:22 RodgerTheGreat: I know how to do GC in forth-like lang 19:10:37 I wrote a GC in forth twice 19:10:41 xyh: RodgerTheGreat is the author of mako 19:10:57 oh! I see 19:11:05 I readed your GC, 19:11:07 oh wow have people actually heard of mako now? 19:11:11 haha 19:11:31 my GC is better than yours :P 19:11:53 I don't doubt it 19:12:00 my GC was just trying to be as simple as possible 19:12:01 mine is incremental :P 19:12:43 I did manage to use my GC for some "real" projects like a Logo interpreter 19:13:40 one of my more recent unrelated projects was/is a high level assembler for an obscure game console with nice forthy syntax: http://johnearnest.github.io/Octo/ 19:14:35 it is funny :) 19:14:43 I think have some ideas about GC worth sharing. 19:15:00 I ll write doc some day 19:16:47 if only we could have a tagged architecture that used meta bits to distinguish pointers from values 19:16:55 GC would be so much easier to write 19:22:54 RodgerTheGreat: one can just view two values [one type tag, one actual value] as one typed-value 19:23:01 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 19:23:17 if you make some assumptions about alignment sure 19:28:19 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 19:40:27 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 19:54:05 --- join: spoofer (~cruella@72.10.28.164) joined #forth 19:54:16 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 20:03:23 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:05:58 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 20:07:11 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@98.208.35.89) joined #forth 20:22:53 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 20:36:08 --- quit: saml_ (Quit: Leaving) 20:52:54 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 20:57:31 --- quit: spoofer (Remote host closed the connection) 21:14:09 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-220.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 21:17:08 --- quit: DKordic` (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 21:39:49 --- join: samrat (~samrat@61.12.96.226) joined #forth 22:08:04 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 22:08:44 picolisp has 64-bit cells in a 32-bit address space, where each byte has its own address. 22:09:47 since 64/8=8, that means you only ever actually use addresses that are multiples of 8. 22:10:25 which means you have 3 bits in each pointer to use for whatever you want. 22:19:27 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 22:40:42 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 22:53:15 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@180.183.139.197) joined #forth 23:13:17 --- quit: vanila (Quit: Leaving) 23:25:05 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 23:34:12 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144200088.atnat0009.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 23:34:40 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 23:42:08 --- join: samrat (~samrat@61.12.96.226) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.11.25