00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.11.02 00:57:59 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 01:13:41 --- join: C-Keen (cckeen@pestilenz.org) joined #forth 01:57:03 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@121.33.190.144) joined #forth 01:00:15 to let the dictionary existed in an imagefile staticly. and let the vm interprets it. 01:14:32 --- quit: ttmrichter_xm (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 01:25:49 to let the dictionary be a execution format, part of the dictionary could be linked with the whole. 01:48:50 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 02:51:37 --- join: true-grue (~grue@128-68-52-247.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 04:11:25 Retro's VM is byte coded, with direct threading for subroutines 04:57:41 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@113.119.215.135) joined #forth 05:01:51 --- join: vanila (~user@unaffiliated/vanila) joined #forth 05:26:15 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 05:32:08 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 05:33:46 --- quit: dubosec (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 05:36:39 --- join: dubosec (~user@66-190-86-54.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 06:29:04 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 06:45:32 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 07:24:48 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 07:31:44 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@2001:858:5:3a41:99d8:b33b:fce0:c986) joined #forth 08:40:21 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 08:44:33 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 09:00:30 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 09:34:10 --- join: pgomes (~pgomes@ipb2182f12.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 09:35:43 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:37:35 crc, xyh re retro vm: though stacks can be dumped to, just prior to saveing, memory and restored just after restoring the memory 09:39:03 but I havent looked into if delta encoded images are used or not. (Simply XOR and runlength encode Zork VM style) 09:40:17 (that is each memorycell is xored with the one in the original image and then (conceptually at least) the results are runlength encoded) 10:06:02 --- quit: impomatic_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 10:20:59 --- join: impomatic_ (~digital_w@249.57.115.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 10:26:39 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 10:47:10 --- quit: samrat (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 10:57:21 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 11:00:36 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:02:48 --- quit: impomatic_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:07:09 --- join: impomatic_ (~digital_w@182.188.189.80.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 11:08:23 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11:11:37 --- join: dys (~user@tmo-100-175.customers.d1-online.com) joined #forth 11:19:29 --- join: KipIngram (~kip@209.40.205.22) joined #forth 11:49:21 --- join: Mat3 (~Mat@ip5b414c9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 11:49:23 hello 11:54:22 --- quit: pgomes (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 12:06:03 --- quit: dubosec (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 12:39:37 --- join: pgomes (~pgomes@ipb2182f12.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 12:51:02 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 13:00:01 h'lo Mat3 13:05:11 hi Zarutian 13:22:07 I am wondering why little endian became so popular 13:28:47 I think some basic logic operations such as additions are slightly simplier implementable 13:29:09 sorry, mean arithmetic operations of course 13:30:31 --- quit: pgomes (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:49:04 it is actually harder as one has to route the Carry In and Carry Out signals over or under the operand signals 13:49:59 I think it became popular because pointer arithmetic was easier (this of course on byte addressable memories) 13:50:19 --- quit: impomatic_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:52:37 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@87.112.74.32) joined #forth 13:56:41 hmm, that depends on the cirquit I think 14:00:36 most simplest adder circuits use propagation carry. Fast adder circuits use look ahead or progressive addition (the latter a bit slower) 14:08:47 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 14:41:22 with carry propagation, my understanding is, that the endianess does not matter becuse regardless of the MSB each carry has to be forwarded 14:45:10 ^because 14:45:16 anyway 14:55:39 one trick to implement addition is to use rom logic lookup tables for 9 bits in and 5 bits out (the 9 bits in are two nybbles from one operand each and carry in and the 5 bits are the result nybble and carry out) 15:01:18 ok, another trick is to precalculate possible overflows and forward the logic dependent on it. In this scheme big endian can be advantageous but again, I think it depedns on details of the logic implementation 15:01:32 ^depends 15:02:16 maybe little endian irritates me because it doesnt make sense on cell addressed memories. 15:02:51 for deeper details I must study real implementations at logic level to get a conclusion 15:03:18 also probably because one then cant use left bit shifts to speed up multiplications. 15:04:06 yes, that's definitly a disadvantage 15:05:22 for such dicussions, I found these side interesting: http://www.visual6502.org/ 15:08:24 indeed 6502 was interesting design. 15:13:35 the most prominent part of that CPU seems to be a PLA 15:15:54 Programmic Logic Array? 15:16:40 yes 15:17:17 what was the diffrence between them and Programmic Array Logic again? 15:23:50 PAL's compute the sum of products whereby a PLA combine logic blocks dependent of a control register delegating a single output 15:24:42 take a look here: http://www.pagetable.com/?p=39 15:25:22 ah, yes I read about that 15:30:16 do you know how many layers were used in 6502? 15:31:40 no 15:34:25 you think 8bit memories won out in these old computers due to more lines needed for address? 15:37:37 I saw somewhere where same 16 bit bus was used for both addresses and data (three strobe control signals were also provided: write_enable, read_enable, address_enable and \ready from device) this bus was made aviable for expansion cards via female card edge connectors. 15:38:18 it required an address latch on each card though 15:42:46 ?!??, probably the TI99/4a 15:45:25 I do not know, saw this in an .pdf of a scanned in old manual/textbook somewhere 16:15:07 ciao 16:15:15 --- quit: Mat3 (Quit: Verlassend) 16:31:24 --- join: pointfree (~pointfree@v-192-223-24-230.unman-vds.internap-nyc.nfoservers.com) joined #forth 16:59:56 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 17:08:50 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 17:11:53 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:12:02 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 17:18:58 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 17:30:29 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 17:31:48 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 17:36:26 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:38:32 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 17:45:37 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:50:40 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 17:55:17 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:10:07 --- quit: vanila (Quit: Leaving) 18:43:27 --- join: samrat (~samrat@123.236.183.195) joined #forth 18:50:20 --- quit: samrat (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:07:36 --- join: ehaliewicz (~user@50-0-50-37.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com) joined #forth 20:54:22 --- part: DKordic left #forth 21:13:21 --- join: samrat (~samrat@61.12.96.226) joined #forth 22:09:33 --- join: pgomes (~pgomes@ipb2182f12.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) joined #forth 23:06:35 --- quit: cataska (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 23:07:32 --- join: cataska (~cataska@118-163-69-1.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 23:16:34 --- quit: pgomes (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:56:39 --- join: protist (~javery@91.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.11.02