00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.09.03 00:21:46 --- part: xyh left #forth 00:29:01 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00:57:08 --- quit: beretta (Remote host closed the connection) 01:05:39 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 01:46:15 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 02:00:18 --- quit: mr-foobar (Quit: Leaving...) 02:02:19 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 02:02:31 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:30:27 --- join: mr-foobar (~mucker@49.205.73.166) joined #forth 02:32:29 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:34:33 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 02:39:55 --- join: impomatic__ (~chatzilla@81.174.174.142) joined #forth 02:40:37 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02:40:52 --- nick: impomatic__ -> impomatic 03:07:44 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 03:07:57 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:09:21 --- join: jyfl987 (~papapa@59.108.97.201) joined #forth 03:20:44 I440r are you there 03:21:22 maybe 03:21:28 :) 03:22:01 im implementing skip lists in c "my fave language... honest wouldilietoyou(tm)" 03:28:44 i also have a "sort of" court appearance tomorrow... i appear via phone 03:34:57 because for some reason my uint64_t foo declaration is being taken as a uint32_t foo wtf 03:35:02 digs deeper lol brb 03:36:41 oh that was a misschan lol 03:43:13 --- quit: jyfl987 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:44:44 mark4: You're going to court because of your uint64_t? 03:44:45 What? 03:46:48 exactly how u guess :) 03:47:00 im not going to court. court is in milwaukee wisconsin and im in dallas tx 03:47:08 im going to be there by phone only :) 03:49:55 my uint64_t problem was because of a missing ; on a prototype in a #include 03:50:01 gottal love c 03:51:24 im writing a series of high end macro assemblers in c. will support avr, 8051, mips, x86 32 and 64, arm, etc etc etc` 03:52:25 every assembler will share the same core... im working on the symbol tables at the moment, hashing the symbols then storing them in hash buckets of skip lists 03:52:26 Why don't you write those in a less insane language like ... Brainfuck? 03:52:47 (And I wrote such an assembler myself in Awk years back. I keep getting the urge to update it...:D) 03:52:49 because ill be open sourcing these as "jobware" 03:53:02 You can open source stuff that isn't C, you know... 03:53:03 i.e. if you use these for commercial projects gimme a job dammit 03:53:11 but nobody would use it 03:53:24 except die hards like us :) 03:53:57 That's OK. I'm writing my own Forth that I know damned well won't be used by anybody but me. :) 03:56:08 for arm yes? 03:56:21 well.. for arm cortex M which is thumb 04:03:01 --- quit: dch (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 04:04:55 --- quit: carc_00 (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 04:06:34 --- join: dch (sid1310@couchdb/committer/dch) joined #forth 04:09:22 Actually I'm aiming for making it as architecture-neutral as is possible (and no more). 04:09:36 I'm aiming for Cortex-M chips first, but STM8 next. 04:09:51 Then I'm going to aim at a retrotech machine (Interdata Model 70) just for kicks. 04:12:04 --- join: carc (~carc@unaffiliated/carc) joined #forth 04:12:41 im not a fan of the M series chips 04:12:45 labotomized 04:12:52 thumb is dumb 04:12:57 I am. Tiny and fast. 04:13:10 Thumb is a pain, yes, but that's why I'm coding a Forth. That way I don't have to look at it closely. :D 04:13:12 the A8 is tiny and fast too 04:13:37 have you seen my cortex-A8 forth? 04:13:44 Nope. 04:13:51 A8 is bloated in code size. 04:14:01 I have chips with 16KB Flash, 4KB SRAM. 04:14:17 A8 code would be a bit bit to fit anything meaningful in that space. 04:14:28 not true for forth 04:14:33 As I said, I agree that Thumb is a serious pain, but once I have a Forth I don't care any longer. 04:14:45 and from waht i have seen most thumb2 opcodes are not 16 bit 04:15:10 and you can do powerful operations in 32 bits with arm that takes 3 or 4 opcodes in thumb 04:15:11 Currently my Forth takes up 13KB. I'm working on shrinking that (and making it more usable with proper tasking), but I doubt I'll get it much smaller than 11. 04:15:32 well my a8 forth is a port of isforth lol 04:15:38 so it has A LOT in there 04:15:49 How big is the Flash space? 04:15:59 (Got a link for your Forth?) 04:16:31 i have a beagleboard xm 04:16:41 will have in a sec :) 04:18:02 Yeah. My target boards are an STM32F030F4-based board and an STM8S105K4-based board. 04:18:40 We're talking VERY tiny for modern kit. 04:19:39 The latter has 16KB Flash, 2KB RAM and 1KB E². 04:19:48 www.isforth.com/a4-unreleased.tar.bz2 04:20:20 my target was a beagleboard xm running gentoo linux off of a 1t usb hard drive lol 04:20:32 i.e. not running out of flash 04:22:03 Yeah, way out of scope for stuff I'd want to do. 04:22:12 With those resources I'd be programming in Mercury or something. 04:23:09 :) 04:23:11 Wait, are any of the isforth's bare-metal? 04:23:25 not really 04:23:29 :( 04:23:38 tho i could make the arm one work bare metal on the beagleboard 04:23:43 i treat linux as my bios 04:23:56 i have a not releasable yet avr forth 04:24:06 i wrote the avr assembler in forth 04:24:08 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:24:19 Mind if I steal ideas from isforth for my InterForth? 04:24:27 why would i mind lol 04:24:56 Some people are weird. 04:25:04 I'll credit where credit is due, of course. 04:25:19 NO YOU CANT COPY MY GPL'ISH CODE!! lol 04:25:26 Currently the engine for the STM8 side is shaping up to be a hybrid token/subroutine Forth. 04:25:27 some people are dumb :P 04:25:40 my arm is sub threading 04:25:53 My ARM will be direct I think. 04:25:58 Because calls are such a fucking pain in ARM. 04:26:18 well my ANDROID arm port of the A4 compiler i just linked is indirect threaded 04:26:41 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 04:26:42 its not interactive yet but it will take me all of 10 minutes to make it interactive :) 04:26:43 Oh, you have an Android port? 04:26:45 Cool. 04:26:58 I want a language that doesn't suck to explore Android systems. 04:27:02 yes as a shared dynamically linked NDK library 04:27:10 with JNI and all that crap 04:28:03 well you would need to interface to the library from java or learn to call java methods from forth via JNI. not impossible, just a MAJOR MAJOR pain in the ass 04:28:14 im building hooks to simplify that as much as i can 04:31:18 You'd have to make an object model just to begin the interfacing. 04:31:19 Ugh. 04:31:22 Fucking objects. 04:32:44 mark4: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=40855053571 is one of my future targets, as a real-world, non-toy example. 04:33:11 why is it all in chinese? 04:33:36 and the solder job on that looks real messy lol 04:33:58 Because it's a Chinese web site? 04:34:07 And the picture is of the hand-assembled prototype. 04:34:14 The real thing (due hopefully this week) will be a lot nicer. 04:34:42 cool lol 04:34:52 what will it be used for? 04:35:03 Well, Wukong Club is our makerspace. 04:35:22 really tho, who ever did the soldering there needs practice lol 04:35:37 And we're starting a line of smart sensor/actuators on an RS-485 based MODBUS. 04:35:41 That's the first one. 04:36:06 gdb is giving me pain 04:36:16 There's an STM32F040F4 (the 20-pin TSSOP) providing the smarts. 04:36:27 To the left is the RS-485 connection point. 04:36:39 To the right is the connection point for a one-wire temperature sensor (in this case). 04:36:50 single step in to a function. ok i get there. single step once and it skips 9 lines of code ahead into the middle of a for loop near the bottom of that for loop. i dont get to debug the for loop 04:37:10 That may be GCC's fault. 04:37:17 GCC does weird shit with its optimizations that fucks up debuggers. 04:37:50 So in the long run we want a bunch of these prefab smart sensor/actuator boards that just involve wiring up an RS-485 bus. 04:38:17 Allowing complex prototypes to be quickly built by medium-to-advanced hobbyist grade types. 04:39:04 yea let me turn -O off :) 04:40:17 ya. -O0 is the only way to debug so -O0 is the only way to release 04:41:01 For embedded systems I'd agree. 04:41:05 I might hazard a -O1. 04:41:22 -O2 or -O3 is insane. 04:41:59 never use anything above -O0 on a PIC24 04:42:01 or below 04:42:26 MicroCraps incantation of GCC is utter suckage 04:42:31 I adopt a broader. 04:42:40 Never use anything PIC24 or below. 04:42:49 I might hazard a PIC32 if I found a decently priced board. 04:42:53 take my advice keep it that way 04:42:55 But fuck I can't stand PIC's. 04:43:00 PIC32 is mips 04:43:03 (Their architecture.) 04:43:06 Yeah, I know. 04:43:11 That's why I'd hazard a PIC32. 04:45:42 Unfortunately I can't see reasonably-priced PIC32 boards out there either. 04:46:07 Indeed MIPS in general is GROSSLY underrepresented in the bare-metal eval boards world. 04:47:45 SoCs? Loads: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=36485130954 05:41:55 --- part: impomatic_ left #forth 06:22:50 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.159.7.91) joined #forth 06:44:48 --- quit: mr-foobar (Quit: Leaving...) 06:45:15 ttmrichter: but as i told you, imgtech has unveil a mips based soc which like rpi, its called ci20 06:45:23 ttmrichter: which a jz4780 inside 06:45:37 and a powervr gpu core, which is the best combination i think 06:46:19 And which is vapourware thus far. 06:46:26 You can't buy it. 06:46:34 There's no pricing information, even. 06:46:44 And the RPi isn't a bare-metal system anyway. 06:46:58 ttmrichter: they will give you one, i think, since you have reasonable projects 06:47:03 not like me, i am just a mips lover 06:47:16 They've closed down the giveaway. 06:47:52 then wait for the next . i have a friend work for ubuntu china, got many that boards 06:48:06 he just want to test them as a cluster 06:48:38 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:48:54 ttmrichter: and if you really interesting of that, contact happyaron at this irc server 06:49:14 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 06:52:08 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~quassel@93-43-152-73.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 07:10:35 I'm more interested in small embedded systems, not SoCs. 07:10:40 I've got SoCs. 07:23:38 what about qnx 07:32:23 I used to work for them. 07:32:31 Back when they were called Quantum. 07:32:56 But after they stopped calling the OS Qunix. :) 07:43:43 --- join: mr-foobar (~mucker@49.206.19.125) joined #forth 07:51:20 wow you worked for them 07:51:28 writing driver in forth? 07:54:20 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 07:54:33 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:05:19 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:07:30 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 08:11:55 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 08:12:15 Nope. I was in a testing position at the time. 08:12:26 This was in the ramp-up to the release of QNX4. 08:12:53 I was doing POSIX compliance testing and, later, because I had such a good instinct for breaking things, I was set to work to break the file system as much as I could. 08:13:08 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 08:13:39 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:21:09 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 08:21:20 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:23:46 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:25:58 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08:28:10 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 08:28:23 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:32:07 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:33:40 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 08:49:55 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 08:50:53 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:55:36 --- quit: clog (^C) 09:55:36 --- log: stopped forth/14.09.03 09:55:53 --- log: started forth/14.09.03 09:55:53 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 09:55:53 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | isforth.com | forthfreak.net | http://forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/ | www.greenarraychips.com' 09:55:53 --- topic: set by I440r!~mark4@cpe-192-136-220-10.tx.res.rr.com on [Thu Jan 02 15:51:09 2014] 09:55:53 --- names: list (clog MrMobius danfinch crc_ aksatac_ yunfan Zarutian mr-foobar ErhardtMundt Bahman carc dch impomatic nighty^ cataska proteusguy robdubya karswell` bjorkintosh joneshf irsol SoniEx2 rollertrump @I440r DGASAU nisstyre tangentstorm +bluekelp djinni joneshf-laptop Vuokko_ Adeon bbloom newcup koisoke_ ttmrichter mark4 TodPunk backer nox Anarch QtJVlWUUk krainboltgreene KipIngra- Quozl` enthos malyn C-Keen yiyus_ DKordic` es_ Zag rprimus dzho) 10:25:13 --- quit: SoniEx2 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 10:25:46 --- join: SoniEx2 (~SoniEx2@unaffiliated/soniex2) joined #forth 10:42:24 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 10:42:54 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Ave atque vale) 10:43:06 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:52:37 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 10:52:49 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:37:26 --- join: kylert (~Kyle@74-92-47-81-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 11:54:23 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 11:56:34 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:58:16 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 12:25:25 --- join: impomatic_ (~chatzilla@81.174.174.142) joined #forth 12:25:41 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.0.217) joined #forth 12:26:39 --- quit: impomatic 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-> karswell 14:30:39 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 14:35:38 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.0.217) joined #forth 14:53:18 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 14:53:30 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:56:50 --- quit: bluekelp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:57:29 --- quit: mark4 (Quit: Leaving) 14:58:08 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@cpe-68-203-183-77.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:02:54 --- join: bluekelp (~bluekelp@2001:470:1:41:9cfa:f502:7783:cec0) joined #forth 15:02:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +v bluekelp 15:12:29 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:15:48 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~quassel@93-43-152-73.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 15:28:39 so i dont know if this is due to something NOT working exactly the way i think it should but... on a 4.3Ghz machine it took 11.2 hours to insert 2.6 million symbols into a table where the table was basically just linked lists 15:29:00 ran the same test on my laptop after converting the linked lists to skip lists and it took 3.3 seconds to insert the same number 15:29:51 laptop is 1.66 ghz core 2 ( 15:30:09 desktop is a 4.3 (used to OC to 4.7) ghz i7 15:34:11 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:35:45 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15:54:55 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 15:59:03 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~quassel@93-43-152-73.ip92.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth 16:07:16 --- join: protist (~javery@137.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 17:14:02 --- log: started forth/14.09.03 17:14:02 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 17:14:02 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | isforth.com | forthfreak.net | http://forthworks.com/standards/DPANS/ | www.greenarraychips.com' 17:14:02 --- topic: set by I440r!~mark4@cpe-192-136-220-10.tx.res.rr.com on [Thu Jan 02 15:51:09 2014] 17:14:02 --- names: list (clog protist ErhardtMundt MrMobius +bluekelp mark4 ASau kylert SoniEx2 danfinch crc_ aksatac_ yunfan carc dch cataska proteusguy karswell bjorkintosh joneshf irsol rollertrump dzho rprimus Zag es_ DKordic` yiyus_ C-Keen malyn enthos Quozl` KipIngra- krainboltgreene QtJVlWUUk Anarch nox backer TodPunk ttmrichter koisoke_ newcup bbloom Adeon Vuokko_ joneshf-laptop djinni tangentstorm DGASAU @I440r) 17:17:51 --- join: robdubya (~robdubya@108-218-139-74.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 17:35:18 --- join: nisstyre (yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 17:53:51 --- quit: ttmrichter (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:54:49 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@192.241.205.8) joined #forth 18:00:35 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 18:29:44 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@162.243.137.152) joined #forth 18:35:38 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 18:36:26 --- join: nisstyre (yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 18:41:59 --- join: _schulte_ 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