00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.09.02 00:00:18 I440r ok see you tomorrow 00:11:41 jyfl987: There's a good online resource for all that. Hang on. 00:11:49 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00:11:58 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/threaded-code.html 00:12:00 this? 00:12:17 No, this: http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/moving1.htm 00:14:01 ttmrichter i have read this before, but as i said, english is not my native language, i might have some misunderstanding. so i need to ask the authors question to check if i understand it right 00:14:49 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:15:18 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:23:05 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:23:47 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:25:03 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 00:25:15 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:31:14 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:32:39 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@118.174.6.122) joined #forth 00:33:04 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00:38:30 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 00:45:48 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 00:46:00 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:49:48 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:50:59 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00:51:00 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00:56:30 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 00:56:43 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 01:22:11 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 01:33:47 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 01:36:48 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 01:43:07 --- join: ASau (~user@46.114.26.169) joined #forth 02:02:06 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 02:07:03 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-230-116.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 02:10:58 --- quit: cataska (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 02:11:14 --- join: cataska (~cataska@118-163-69-1.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 02:16:46 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 02:26:00 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 02:29:45 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-142.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 02:37:11 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:45:59 --- quit: cataska (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02:46:53 --- join: pgomes (d4b9b9a4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.212.185.185.164) joined #forth 02:49:10 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 02:53:06 --- join: cataska (~cataska@118-163-69-1.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 02:55:47 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 02:56:00 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:58:19 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 03:12:48 --- join: IAm_thor (~PircBotX@31.221.70.157) joined #forth 03:12:49 --- part: IAm_thor left #forth 03:35:00 so im writing an avr assembler in c. i have a dictionary of about 2.6 million unique words and im computing the hash for each symbol and adding it to a symbol table based on that hash 03:35:20 ive added 1.7 million so far and no false hash collisions 03:35:31 that's really a huge dictionary 03:35:32 but its getting slower and slower 03:35:40 yes thats the point 03:35:52 but the point it not the size 03:36:02 if i can generate 2.6 million unique hashes on 2.6 million unique strings 03:36:06 i think the keypoint is the forth's way to searching from dictionary 03:36:08 then ill call my hash safe 03:36:23 im using the forth way to search the dictionary but im NOT doing any string compares 03:36:28 just hash compares 03:36:55 and i didnt sleep yet and its alread 630 am lol 03:37:15 im up to 1.8 million symbol insertions with no collisions on hashes 03:37:22 the hashing algorithm is my own 03:38:02 but what i forgot to do was add a deliberate collision to the end of my dictionary lol 03:38:04 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 03:39:48 2 million symbols 03:39:59 but its down to about 100 additions per second now 03:44:43 2.2 million hashes added, no collisions. NOBODY is going to have any assembler sources with 2.2 million unique symbol names lol 03:46:45 so either my hash search doesnt find any collisions or there are none lol 03:47:06 adding a deliberate collision should prove the code 03:48:28 but 2.2m is not a large number for a mordern hash 03:48:42 its minute 03:48:53 this is a 256 bit hash 03:48:56 64 bytes 03:49:20 our redis server has some dict data which has up to 180m keys 03:49:29 meaning if the hash is not totally crap you should pretty much not see a collsion before the sun expires 03:49:53 and i am interesting what avr chip are you use 03:49:55 no assembler source would require even 2.x million lol 03:49:57 is it avr32? 03:50:02 yes 32u4 03:50:11 but my assembler will work on ANY avr chip 03:50:20 tho i only created the profile for the u4 03:50:41 2.2m words is too crazy to me 03:50:53 i wonder how the following developer do his work 03:51:01 nobody writes foo.asm with 2 million unique symbols :P 03:51:28 also how you naming those words 03:51:43 its quite a hard job 03:51:46 they are real words but a mix of languages 03:52:50 and are you working for NASA's mars project :] 03:53:00 i wish 03:53:18 im porting my avr assembler to C and making it a full blown macro assembler 03:53:36 im smoke testing my symbol additions and searches 03:53:47 every time i add a symbol right now i first verify that it is unique 03:54:03 up to 2.5M symbols in the table so far 03:54:18 less than 100 symbols being added per second now tho 03:54:28 al most done tho 03:54:29 mark4: how about the resource that chip has 03:54:48 this isnt being run on a avr :) 03:55:57 no , i mean the target board might not have enough memory for 2.2m words, so you dont worry about that 03:56:19 no. its only 32k flash on the 32u4 03:57:03 but i could understand it, since if someday they want to extend some functions, it would be harder than hiring cobol programer 03:57:16 mark4: then why you test up to million words 03:57:30 to verify i dont get hash collisions 03:57:47 im not doing any string compares 03:57:57 if you do "jmp foo" 03:58:22 i calculate a hash for foo. search the symbol table for a symbol with that hash and if i find it i return the address it refers to 03:58:45 but i have to go zzz now lol 03:58:53 mark4: but any hash solution will give you a chained link solution for that case 03:59:06 that's why there're hash collisions attacking 03:59:21 no. i do not store symbols with identical hashes 03:59:30 got it 03:59:44 you just do i = hash(symbol) 03:59:48 and then store i 03:59:59 so the hash algorithm has to be so good that a collision is next to utterly improbable 04:00:23 --- join: protist (~javery@175.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 04:01:14 try md5 or other things 04:02:13 no. md5 is not designed for this kind of work. a better hashing algo for this sort of thing would be the FNV hashing algorithm 04:02:26 md5 is computationally expensive 04:02:45 yes, but many chip has hardware support 04:02:59 so does other important hash algorithm 04:03:08 and i cant guarantee that the processor your running on supports it :) 04:03:39 "you need to upgrade your computer to one that supports hardware md5" is not a good way to make friends lol 04:03:45 then why not let they buy some chip which support it :] 04:03:56 "you cant use my software because your hardware sucks" lol 04:04:01 yes 04:04:14 ok i have to sleep :) 04:04:18 i dont like they ask software handle all the things 04:04:28 i just went out for dinner 04:06:05 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 04:06:14 your not in texas :) 04:06:22 or you should have invited me! 04:06:23 lol 04:07:03 --- join: karswell` (~user@87.112.13.240) joined #forth 04:09:00 --- quit: jyfl987 (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 04:16:05 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:18:00 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:37:27 --- quit: pgomes (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 04:38:46 --- join: pgomes (d4b9b9a4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.212.185.185.164) joined #forth 04:40:52 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 04:41:04 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:41:58 I440r: Thanks for the advice earlier. 04:53:54 --- part: xyh left #forth 05:06:22 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:14:47 --- quit: _schulte_ (Quit: leaving) 05:21:55 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@121.33.190.150) joined #forth 05:27:18 --- quit: mr-foobar (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 05:28:23 --- join: mr-foobar (~mucker@49.205.73.166) joined #forth 05:41:05 --- quit: bjorkintosh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:50:23 --- quit: mr-foobar (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 05:57:59 OK, so now I have an incentive to finish off this Forth. 05:58:00 http://shop112953855.taobao.com/ 05:58:14 That cute little board there is perfect for a very small Forth system. 06:08:37 your chinese must be good! 06:16:42 xyh: Why? 06:17:00 Just to clarify, that's (partially) my shop. 06:17:30 If you go to the board's entry and scroll down, you'll see a picture of me assembling a bookshelf. 06:24:22 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 07:02:33 My Chinese is no good. What are the specs for this device, ttmrichter ? 07:13:00 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 07:15:16 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 07:33:23 proteusguy: It's a simple little device: has an STM32F030F4 MCU with USART1 connected to RS485 and some of the GPIO connected to a one-wire thermometer. 07:34:15 Remaining GPIO (including SPI and I2C, IIRC, multiplexed on) is broken out into a convenient block. 07:35:06 Firmware out of the box supplies MODBUS RTU on the RS485. 07:44:08 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 07:51:15 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@188.159.7.91) joined #forth 08:08:18 STM32 is an arm soc? 08:16:53 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 08:21:30 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 08:36:54 --- join: IAm_thor (~PircBotX@31.221.70.157) joined #forth 08:36:57 --- part: IAm_thor left #forth 08:48:45 --- join: mr-foobar (~mucker@49.206.19.125) joined #forth 09:09:04 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 09:10:10 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-84-118.prtc.net) joined #forth 09:11:27 proteusguy: An MCU. 09:11:41 ARM Cortex-M0 09:11:50 16KB Flash, 4KB SRAM. 09:19:49 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:20:38 --- quit: Zarutian (Remote host closed the connection) 09:21:30 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@168-110-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is) joined #forth 09:27:00 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09:29:37 --- quit: joneshf (Remote host closed the connection) 09:30:02 --- join: joneshf (~joneshf@98.208.35.89) joined #forth 09:31:36 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 09:43:09 I guess you're only using thumb asm in there cause you won't fit much code with 32bit ops. 10:19:13 --- join: impomatic_ (~digital_w@81.174.174.142) joined #forth 10:34:48 --- quit: pgomes (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 10:51:03 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 10:51:50 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@hokuriku.rural-networks.com) joined #forth 11:03:49 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 11:06:45 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 11:26:04 --- quit: karswell` (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:41:03 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 11:52:35 if its an M it doesnt have arm opcides, onmly thumb and thumb2 11:57:47 impossible to type when a cat is atttacking your hand as your doing it lol 12:17:56 --- join: ASau (~user@46.114.26.169) joined #forth 12:55:36 --- part: xyh left #forth 13:00:17 --- join: bjorkintosh (~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net) joined #forth 13:19:02 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 13:19:20 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:23:40 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 13:33:48 --- quit: MrMobius (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:36:30 --- join: karswell` (~user@87.112.13.240) joined #forth 13:51:44 --- quit: xyh (Remote host closed the connection) 13:53:50 --- join: yhx (~user@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 14:09:20 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 14:29:31 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 15:06:43 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.0.217) joined #forth 15:08:09 --- join: robdubya (~robdubya@108-218-139-74.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 15:08:15 --- quit: ASau` (Remote host closed the connection) 15:08:31 afternoon 15:09:15 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.0.217) joined #forth 15:10:11 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:12:05 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 15:17:53 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 15:18:06 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:22:53 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:24:52 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 15:46:50 --- quit: MrMobius (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:47:33 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:50:33 --- join: beretta (~beretta@cpe-74-135-127-101.swo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:51:30 --- quit: MrMobius (Disconnected by services) 15:51:42 --- join: MrM0bius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:17:23 I found a neat Raspberry Pi Forth bare metal OS. Can't wait to use it. 16:17:31 Especially since it seems to be updated frequently. 16:54:17 --- quit: beretta (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 16:59:29 krainboltgreene, whats it called? 16:59:37 and whats it written in 17:00:02 I440r: https://github.com/organix/pijFORTHos 17:00:14 Seems to be pretty well documented too. 17:00:29 ugh its just jonesforth 17:00:47 jonesforth is HORRIBLE 17:01:16 Even as a starting point to understand a simple forth implementation? 17:01:28 SPECIALLY as that 17:01:41 Ahah 17:02:13 you want to learn the internals of the forth language look at tom zimmers FPC for dos or at my isforth 17:02:34 jf is trivial compared to isforth but isforths kernel is WAY better partitioned 17:02:59 you will learn orders of magnitude more about linux asm coding, forth and the internals of forth with isforth that you EVER will with jones 17:03:10 To be honest, I don't get forth at all. So I'm just reading books now. (Thinking Forth ANS now) 17:03:33 thinking forth is kind of advanced. have you read starting forth yet 17:03:53 I think I have it. 17:04:09 Even then, it helped me a lot on an assigment I had at school. 17:04:22 That day I read the "keep it simple and have it working" part. 17:05:23 So hey, it cool. And I'll note starting forth and isforth code. 17:05:25 Thanks :) 17:05:41 Zag: I've had significant fun with Starting Forth, but I got a dead tree copy. 17:05:57 well isforth is not ans compliant so there are words in the modern rewrite of starting forth that will not apply 17:06:03 if you have problems im here :) 17:06:18 krainboltgreene, what edition? first or second? 17:06:26 Yeah. And it seems to be a theme in forth. 17:06:28 Let me find out. 17:06:34 All basically the same, but not really. 17:06:57 isforth is absolutely 100% compatible with the ISFORTH standard :P 17:07:11 Great then! :D 17:08:56 isforth runs in x86 linux as a 32 bit executable only. 64 bit might be in the works eventually 17:09:05 I440r: First edition. 17:09:18 NICE!!!!!!!!! 17:09:23 I have it working here, somewhat. I still have an x86 17:09:29 hold on to that, you have a VERY rare collectors item there 17:09:51 what distribution do you use? 17:10:00 Mint. I just have to change $TERM 17:10:02 if it is debian you will have problems but i can help u with those 17:10:09 i just refuse to have the fix BUILT IN 17:10:19 Ahah 17:10:20 mint is debian based? 17:10:26 Ubuntu-based 17:10:31 yes which is debian based 17:10:37 you will have issues with isforth 17:11:03 in fact, while the isforth kernel will run anything it compiles will not 17:11:37 I'll see I guess. Maybe problems will be hiding. 17:11:42 i would HIGHLY recommend you ditch any debian based distribution. 17:11:53 problem is that debians binutils are NOT pax aware 17:12:07 I440r: Picked it up for a $1 at The Last Bookstore in LA. 17:12:21 krainboltgreene, ! 17:12:25 Thing is, I don't know a lot about administering a computer. And I tend to make things crash.. a lot. 17:12:29 And Mint *just works* 17:12:48 my father had 2 first editions of it from the time it was published but they got destroyed due to mold :( 17:13:05 you want to learn linux? 17:13:09 I know it ain't great. But, jesus I'm tired of fitghing to get my wifi to work. 17:13:10 enough so that you dont break things? 17:13:21 i can give you a "crash course" 17:13:31 you dont even need to uninstall your mint yet 17:13:36 if you have the drive space 17:13:49 instal virtualbox and get that working 17:13:51 I know, basically how it works (Lion's book on the way tho). I just like randomly crash gcc or X, or stuff. 17:13:57 I have a really shitty computer. 17:14:23 then install GENTOO inside the virtualbox - you will learn more about administering linux just doing that FIRST install than any amont of time running any debian based distribution 17:14:24 So, I'll see. When I'll have the motivation I'll try something else. 17:14:39 define shitty? 17:14:56 Yeah I had it for a while, untill X just refused to start.. Because.. And I had a friend to install it for a second try. And the wifi just 'refused' to work. 17:15:09 2.1ghz single-core. 1.7G of ram 17:15:44 i think that is on the hairy edge of being unusable in any debian based distribution, specially ones based on ubunty 17:15:58 ubuntu installes EVERYTHING including the kitchen sink 17:16:15 Yeah it is. I have dwm to try and use as little as possible of.. everything.. 17:16:19 so your guaraneed to have crap running that you will never use taking up resources you need 17:16:33 I know. But it works. And I need a computer :/ 17:16:52 i highly recommend you just burn that install and install gentoo - you will need to be able to read the gentoo handbook as you do the install 17:16:56 just take your time. 17:17:35 and gentoo doesnt use systemd which if you want to learn how bad systemd is look at boycotsystemd.org 17:17:49 Yeah I read about it.. 17:17:51 thats just one page of info on why systemd is the worst thing ever to happen to linux 17:18:03 Just the wikipedia page is enough to make me wanna never use it. 17:18:50 well your using it 17:18:54 ubuntu uses it 17:19:00 so do all debian based distros 17:20:26 Mh. You really do have good arguments you know. 17:20:36 lol 17:20:46 im very opinionated 17:20:54 I am too. 17:22:07 Yeah I think I'll figure something out this weekend. 17:22:40 i recommend gentoo as a being thrown in at the deep end with floaters to help :) 17:22:59 just keep the handbook handy and follow its directions and actually LEARN shit 17:23:13 even if you decide not to stay with gentoo you will learn more installing and using it 17:23:26 and #gentoo here has 85264529452 people all ready and willing to help the beginner 17:23:29 Yeah, thing is, it really takes a while to compile all the things. 17:23:38 in #debian when i used that all i got for help most of the time was "RTFM" 17:23:44 it does 17:23:55 I have time tho, so it might not be a problem. 17:23:56 but you get to decide WHAT gets installed 17:24:02 I know 17:24:18 It was a good experience I had with it. 17:25:01 also, gentoo follows the FHS, debian does not 17:30:18 Well, thanks for all the tips. :) 17:56:24 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 18:28:22 If you don't mind systemd arch linux is one way to make life easier too 18:29:35 My route in Linux has been Slackware -> Redhat -> Debian -> Slackware -> Ubuntu -> Arch 18:30:13 And I've stayed in arch more than five years now :) 18:40:28 --- join: jyfl987 (~papapa@59.108.97.201) joined #forth 18:55:35 --- join: beretta (~beretta@cpe-74-135-127-101.swo.res.rr.com) joined #forth 19:25:35 --- quit: jyfl987 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:31:16 look at boycotsystemd.org 19:31:41 and truely understand how BAD systemd is 20:16:06 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:32:48 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-110-168-229-145.revip5.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 21:19:48 --- quit: yhx (Remote host closed the connection) 21:21:46 --- join: xyh (~xieyuheng@2001:250:3002:5550:6ea1:cc0f:bcb2:b187) joined #forth 22:10:49 --- quit: cataska (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:14:56 --- quit: mr-foobar (Quit: Leaving...) 22:15:20 --- join: jyfl987 (~papapa@59.108.97.201) joined #forth 22:23:02 --- join: cataska (~cataska@118-163-69-1.HINET-IP.hinet.net) joined #forth 22:31:05 --- quit: MrM0bius (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 22:38:58 --- join: protist (~javery@63.225.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 22:40:11 --- join: MrMobius (~Joey@c-98-223-189-47.hsd1.in.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:40:48 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:41:27 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.0.217) joined #forth 23:12:40 --- join: mr-foobar (~mucker@49.205.73.166) joined #forth 23:27:42 --- quit: jyfl987 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 23:32:47 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 23:51:32 --- join: pgomes (d4b9b9a4@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.212.185.185.164) joined #forth 23:52:48 --- quit: pgomes (Client Quit) 23:55:32 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.09.02