00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.05.17 00:06:05 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-85-200.prtc.net) joined #forth 00:07:07 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 00:35:35 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 00:43:18 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 00:46:45 --- quit: mnemnion_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:47:02 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:55:21 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.145) joined #forth 00:57:11 tangentstorm: do you know the language ``shen'' , http://www.shenlanguage.org/index.html , the design of its syntax is the best ! 01:03:46 --- quit: xyh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01:04:16 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.145) joined #forth 01:23:55 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01:27:42 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:31:33 It doesn't have a syntax. 01:33:19 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 01:41:47 ttmrichter: yes, it use sexp (syntax-parse-tree) as its syntax, but there are little details. 01:41:52 in shen : (cases (= 8 9) kkk (= 8 7) aaa true error! ) 01:42:04 in scheme : (cond [(= 8 9) 'kkk] [(= 8 7) 'aaa] [else 'error!] ) 01:43:25 in shen : [1 (+ 1 1) 3] in scheme : `(1 ,(+ 1 1) 3) 01:45:39 Ah, it sounds, then, like it has a very small amount of syntax. 01:45:44 Slightly more than Scheme. 01:45:52 Slightly less than Clojure. 01:46:35 actually needs some parsing, when implementing its pattern-match system 01:46:46 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@162.Red-83-47-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 01:47:01 haskell-like pattern-match 01:47:14 Haskell-like or Erlang-like? 01:47:30 (As in is it statically typed or dynamically typed?) 01:48:17 ttmrichter: i do not know Erlang, so ... , it looks like haskell to me. 01:48:45 Well is it statically typed like Haskell or dynamically typed like Erlang? 01:50:01 dynamically typed like lisp, and set you can use ml-like type checking in it. 01:50:02 --- join: ASau (~user@46.114.25.173) joined #forth 01:50:23 (tc +) \* type checking (Like ML, mixed lists will not now be accepted.) *\ 01:50:27 (tc -) \* no type checking *\ 01:52:29 ttmrichter: cool? i like this language very much! 01:57:14 Meh. I'm not a fan of Lisps. 01:57:23 I admire them but will never use one. 01:57:38 Optional typing is cool, though. I loved it in Dylan. 01:57:40 hehe 02:06:26 --- quit: xyh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:21:03 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.145) joined #forth 02:33:42 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 02:50:15 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-25-34-171.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 02:58:53 --- quit: aranhoide (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:10:26 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 03:19:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 03:27:09 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 03:28:28 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 03:37:24 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 04:01:01 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 04:07:35 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 04:12:22 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 04:27:22 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 04:49:47 --- join: dkcl (~user@unaffiliated/dandersen) joined #forth 04:59:26 --- quit: bbloom (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 05:19:26 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:24:22 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:33:18 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.145) joined #forth 05:41:39 --- join: saml_ (~saml@pool-71-190-4-101.nycmny.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:16:08 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 06:35:33 in ``Build Your Own (Cross-) Assembler....in Forth'' by Brad Rodriguez http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/ , he said ``In a previous issue of this journal I described how to "bootstrap" yourself into a new processor, with a simple debug monitor. '' , ``this journal'' means ``TCJ'' ``The Computer Journal'' , but I can find it in TCJ ... anyone knows where to find it ? 06:44:57 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 06:45:34 --- quit: nighty-_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:59:21 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 07:19:41 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:20:12 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 07:24:29 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 07:54:31 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 08:07:32 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 08:19:15 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 08:27:25 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 08:39:08 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-87-136.prtc.net) joined #forth 09:09:45 --- quit: nighty-_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 09:11:04 --- join: true-grue_ (~quassel@95-25-104-15.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 09:12:58 --- quit: dkcl (Remote host closed the connection) 09:12:59 --- quit: true-grue (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 09:16:42 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-209-190.as43234.net) joined #forth 09:16:54 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 09:16:55 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 09:23:03 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 09:38:22 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 09:47:09 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:10:05 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 10:11:22 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 10:13:24 --- quit: nighty-_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 10:13:35 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:27:21 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 10:32:21 --- join: dkcl (~user@unaffiliated/dandersen) joined #forth 10:53:15 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 10:53:56 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.151) joined #forth 11:07:21 --- quit: xyh (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:11:25 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 11:27:04 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144216062.atnat0025.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 11:27:05 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:32:09 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 11:45:25 --- quit: saml_ (Quit: Leaving) 11:49:22 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:59:19 --- join: xyh (~user@2001:250:3002:5550:5642:49ff:fe5f:39f7) joined #forth 12:01:53 --- quit: impomatic_ (Remote host closed the connection) 12:07:31 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 12:13:37 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 12:16:06 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 12:20:27 --- quit: asie (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:40:05 xyh: http://archive.org/stream/the-computer-journal-51/tcj_51_July-August_1991_djvu.txt 12:47:58 --- join: gr8 (~gr8@dslb-188-097-007-054.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 12:49:01 hi. I decided to learn forth. which book would you recommend as a primer? I have some experiences with Scheme if that matters 12:53:43 "Starting forth"/"Thinking forth" books. Then read some articles about Forth internals (like http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/ ) and examine some good designed Forth systems code (like eForth). 12:55:29 ok thanks 12:58:30 crc: thx 13:01:41 --- join: gr81 (~gr8@dslb-084-059-078-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 13:02:35 --- quit: gr8 (Disconnected by services) 13:02:39 --- nick: gr81 -> gr8 13:02:43 gr8: ``jonesforth'' if you know assembly language, https://bitbucket.org/xieyuheng/jonesforth/downloads 13:02:51 not a book 13:04:55 gr8: the knowledge about scheme is always helpful, whenever you try to learn a new language. :) 13:05:40 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-85-200.prtc.net) joined #forth 13:10:36 Knowing simple, good designed PLs like Scheme just adds more frustration in case if you deal with C++/Java/etc in your work :) 13:13:04 true-grue_: absolutely. I think how much you understood the simplicity of such one, increases that effect. I literally got depressive having to write C++ code last semester in university :( 13:13:50 oh! sorry, I should not say that, for I only use a few functional languages. 13:15:08 idiocracy *everywhere* except some esoteric corners of programming 13:17:25 I hope that forth will be one of the latter 13:18:48 whats wrong with C++? 13:19:20 did it make you read a russian novel? 13:19:28 http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/ 13:20:09 i cant take that site seriously 13:20:44 I think it's not meant as such 13:21:04 but most of it is still true 13:21:26 saying that perl should be replaced with rc & awk is a bit extreme, and frankly fails in a lot of ways 13:22:27 replacing gtk with tk 13:22:33 go back to the stone ages 13:23:54 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.139.139) joined #forth 13:25:19 What's wrong with Russian novels? Scheme fells more like Chekhov's short stories :) 13:26:54 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 13:27:03 --- join: gr81 (~gr8@dslb-084-059-066-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 13:28:44 BTW, STL library originally was inspired in some ways by Scheme. Does anyone thinks that Scheme is "outdated technology" in comparision with C++? :) 13:29:11 --- quit: gr8 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:30:28 russian novels tend to be viewed as depressing. its popular culture which of course means its not true... although, in this case, it might be 13:31:43 Forth got its lambda construction implementation in the 90s (or even earlier). C++? Only recently. C+ is todays PL/I, a kitchen sink language. You can use it. But praising?... 13:31:57 --- quit: gr81 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:33:57 true-grue_: would like to know more about lambda in forth any links ? 13:34:03 i like Dostoyevsky 13:35:25 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 13:41:18 --- quit: ASau (Excess Flood) 13:42:39 One of the most simpliest ways: 13:42:42 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.139.139) joined #forth 13:42:44 : [: postpone ahead :noname ; immediate 13:42:45 : ;] postpone ; ] >r postpone then r> postpone literal ; immediate 13:43:00 And use like ... [: 2* ;] map ... 13:44:18 Another way (more Forth-specific): 13:44:25 : each: ( array) 13:44:26 r> swap dup @ >r cell+ r> 13:44:26 0 do 2dup 2>r @ swap execute 2r> cell+ loop 2drop ; 13:44:38 And example of use: 13:44:41 create arr 9 , 1 , -1 , -3 , 4 , 0 , 5 , -6 , -7 , 9 , 13:44:53 : count-negatives ( array - count) 0 swap each: 0< if 1+ then ; 13:47:09 I know that there is no lexical binding, but it's Forth afterall :) There were more complex lambda implementations in Forth though. 13:48:33 true-grue_: yeah, I am just implementing one. :) 13:50:26 xyh: One of those complex implementations: https://www.scm.tees.ac.uk/formalmethods/download/postlamb.pdf 13:56:48 true-grue_: great! thx for this link! :) 13:58:15 --- part: xyh left #forth 14:03:47 --- quit: DGASAU (Remote host closed the connection) 14:05:26 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 14:13:33 --- join: bbloom (~bbloom@cpe-68-173-7-82.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 14:17:24 --- quit: _spt_ (Quit: gone) 14:32:32 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:32:57 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:05:08 --- join: jonasbits (~Thunderbi@78-73-105-79-no162.tbcn.telia.com) joined #forth 15:06:48 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:08:51 --- quit: bbloom (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:09:33 --- join: bbloom (~bbloom@cpe-68-173-7-82.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 15:55:52 --- quit: irsol (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 15:57:07 --- join: irsol (~irsol@unaffiliated/contempt) joined #forth 16:04:46 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:10:58 --- quit: true-grue_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:29:31 --- quit: DGASAU (Remote host closed the connection) 16:31:01 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:51:10 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:54:46 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 17:04:13 --- quit: enthos (Remote host closed the connection) 17:12:48 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:16:50 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 17:25:37 --- quit: dkcl (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 17:29:59 --- quit: DGASAU (Remote host closed the connection) 17:32:13 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 17:53:46 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net) joined #forth 18:05:48 --- join: saml_ (~saml@pool-71-190-4-101.nycmny.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:16:26 --- quit: DGASAU (Remote host closed the connection) 18:19:07 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 18:45:57 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 20:17:15 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 20:47:11 --- quit: saml_ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 20:51:24 --- quit: dessos (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]) 22:18:27 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 22:18:33 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.151) joined #forth 22:19:27 --- join: yunfan_chrome (~yunfanchr@60.172.91.230) joined #forth 22:22:34 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 22:30:29 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 22:46:57 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 22:58:05 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 22:58:56 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:07:45 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 23:17:09 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:31:06 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-87-72.prtc.net) joined #forth 23:35:02 --- quit: kumul (Client Quit) 23:53:07 --- quit: yunfan_chrome (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:53:25 --- join: yunfan_chrome (~yunfanchr@60.172.91.75) joined #forth 23:55:51 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144231059.atnat0040.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.05.17