00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.05.11 00:09:40 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 00:22:46 --- join: nop0x07bc (~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com) joined #forth 00:41:03 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@93-80-109-11.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 00:52:13 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 01:04:15 --- join: DGASAU (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 01:09:19 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.140) joined #forth 01:12:47 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-72-50-86-148.prtc.net) joined #forth 01:14:03 --- quit: kumul (Client Quit) 01:44:44 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/900 01:44:57 and see this (not factor code) : https://www.refheap.com/85331 01:45:04 xyh! just the person i wanted to see. 01:45:11 hehe 01:46:03 if our text editor can edit this ! 01:48:02 check this out: https://archive.org/details/relationalprogra00macl 01:48:34 it's the code for a syntax-directed editor from 1982 01:49:10 the guy was experimenting with a relational programming language, and this is one of the applications he created with it. 01:51:13 tangentstorm: how do you find of the LambdaStack ? 01:57:32 i don't understand the question. 01:58:17 you mean the refheap link? i don't understand the code. :) 02:04:03 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 02:05:40 sorry about my english ... yes, the refheap link. and the book is very cool ! ^_^ , I will paste more example code. 02:06:37 i actually do think i understand it now. 02:07:26 haha 02:07:54 it's just very different from what i'm used to. :) 02:08:37 you are smart to understand it just by one example ! 02:09:14 well i know what a lambda is.. :) i may also be wrong :) 02:10:32 i think it's the quadratic formula 02:12:08 --- quit: xyh (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:12:14 --- join: xyh` (~user@121.33.190.140) joined #forth 02:13:54 hrm. no, just (lambda (a b c) (sqrt(4ac - (b*b))-b / (2*a)) 02:14:47 yes, just this 02:18:57 tangentstorm: it is 4 in the morning in the U.S. ! 02:22:38 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 02:28:53 yep 02:29:14 https://www.refheap.com/85333 02:30:47 tangentstorm: you must be very sleepy now ! 02:31:26 oh, i see... so you're proposing this as a solution to the alleged unreadability of concatenative languages? 02:34:28 yes 02:36:08 very readable ! 02:41:00 does it actually work? 02:41:46 it is imaginary language 02:41:50 I can implement it 02:43:17 maybe I can solve the text editing problem just by a emacs mode! 02:45:31 maybe :) 02:45:49 why would this be harder or easier than editing anything else? 02:47:01 you try to edit it !!! your will know. 02:47:05 haha 02:47:27 it is about the indentation 02:50:18 it seems to me that the distinction between infix, lisp-style, or postfix notation is kind of meaningless when you have a database. 02:50:30 a graph database i mean. 02:50:48 ? why 02:51:02 if you store your program as a graph then you can render it any way you want. 02:52:25 cool, :) but this is not the directed-graph-processing which I mentioned. this is a forth-like language 02:55:06 oh 02:55:08 I have lots of languages in my mind to be designed and implemented. I call this forth-like language ``xiaolinguist'', ``xiao'' in chinese means ``little''. 02:55:27 :) 02:55:32 --- quit: nop0x07bc (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 03:15:38 --- quit: xyh` (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 03:16:56 --- join: xyh (~user@121.33.190.140) joined #forth 03:18:34 --- part: xyh left #forth 03:22:38 --- join: nop0x07bc (~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com) joined #forth 03:58:50 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 04:58:59 --- join: saml_ (~saml@pool-71-190-4-101.nycmny.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 05:20:55 --- join: interpol_agent (~kvirc@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 05:21:32 anyone versed on the windows install? 05:24:34 of what? 05:25:33 just ask your question, interpol_agent ... [ assuming it's in some way related to forth... :) ] 05:26:34 Installed the windows binary, but getting error message.. pasting, brb 05:27:55 --- quit: interpol_agent (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:28:15 --- join: interpol_agent (~kvirc@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 05:29:57 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 05:30:23 i think you think there is only one thing called forth. 05:30:46 how do you mean?\ 05:31:13 looks like the install if looking for *nix directories 05:31:49 maybe need to change a config file or command line argument 05:32:11 and gforth.fi is not anywhere on my system 05:33:41 gforth is just one of many forths 05:33:55 try this instead http://win32forth.sourceforge.net/ 05:34:06 ah ok, wilco 05:34:39 so many flavors in the candy store:) 05:35:17 was looking at GNU forth 05:36:35 has anyone programmed forth in haskell? 05:37:24 should change my name...someone might actually think I'm interpol 05:54:28 people have made rpn-like stack languages in haskell but i don't know of any that are actually forths. 05:59:43 --- quit: interpol_agent (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:06:45 You could probably make some kind of stupid combinator that acts like a Forth but is actually Haskell. :D 06:07:01 yeah 06:07:41 a professor at west point wrote a paper about how to trick haskell into letting you use postfix syntax so you could do just that. :) 06:08:10 http://www.westpoint.edu/eecs/SiteAssets/SitePages/Faculty%20Publication%20Documents/Okasaki/hw02postfix.pdf 06:10:17 * ttmrichter glances over a Prolog and ponders. 06:10:31 s/ a / at / 06:10:44 --- join: hellen_haskeller (~HellenKel@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 06:11:37 Forth in Haskell? Haskell in Forth -- that would be preferable :) 06:11:52 true-grue: I'd prefer no Haskell at all, actually, but that's just me. 06:12:52 well, new to forth and it seems I might like it more than haskell 06:13:23 ttmrichter: I agree. It's just another PL designed by committee :) 06:13:30 seems far less, bloated...was kicked from haskell for saying that 06:13:44 --- quit: saml_ (Remote host closed the connection) 06:14:11 I don't mind the language, actually. I dislike the tooling and the community that makes that tooling and does the "blame the victim" thing when the tooling explodes in the user's face. 06:14:27 ya, can be like COBAL that way...anything designed by committee is just...well bad usually 06:14:33 haha stupid victims... 06:15:08 did I read correctly that forth was behind my electronics as a kid? Trash 80, Timex Sinclair 1000, C64? 06:15:57 Well it was in a lot of electronics of the era, but it was the default only on the Jupiter Ace, IIRC. 06:16:07 Smart people quickly replaced the native stuff with Forths though. :) 06:16:31 well forth seems to be what I'm looking for in terms of speed and small executables 06:16:35 Yes. The arrogant community. They basically ignore any previous FP accomplishments or try to pretend that they invented it. FRP is just one of recent examples. 06:16:49 hellen_haskeller: none of the Sinclair machines had Forth natively 06:18:07 haskell is getting so fat imho, and when you try to critisize it in the channel...bamb "No soup for you!" 06:18:26 ZX had a small stack "coprocessor" in ROM for arithmetic. 06:18:50 hellen_haskeller, true-grue: I think the part that now makes me giggle in Haskell is "lens". 06:18:53 ok, I had the ZX...err ZX 41 iirc 06:19:10 It's another language entirely built on top of Haskell and integrated into Haskell. 06:19:18 ZX81? 06:19:21 But unlike CHR (which is that way to Prolog) it's ... really, really bad. 06:19:26 ah ya, thats it 81 06:19:36 the Jupiter Ace was very Sinclair-like, being designed by ex-Sinclair guys 06:19:58 if it had used the Spectrum ULA it would have been much better 06:20:11 interesting history...I loved my zx81, first computer I owned...err...it owned me 06:20:19 http://www.zxshed.co.uk/sinclairfaq/index.php5?title=X80 06:20:40 even subscribed to a magazine dedicated to the timex stuff 06:20:45 as it was, 2K of RAM, character cell graphics and no colour wasn't really going to take the market by storm 06:20:52 nice little program snippets etc 06:21:18 lol, and you did the cassette tape thing 06:21:37 and interlaced tv output...hard on the eyes 06:22:20 looking forward to learning some forth...seems like an RPN type system 06:23:30 Keep in mind that Forth is not a PL, but a PL constructor :) 06:23:46 hellen_haskeller: it wasn't interlaced 06:24:13 what was it? cause it did flicker...so that was probably just my bad tv 06:31:29 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 06:32:07 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 06:38:33 --- join: karswell (~user@87.115.32.66) joined #forth 06:44:06 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 06:53:06 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 07:02:52 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 07:21:08 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 07:56:52 --- quit: hellen_haskeller (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:18:42 --- quit: asie (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:20:38 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 08:20:41 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 08:21:10 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 08:23:10 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-221-43.as43234.net) joined #forth 08:23:11 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 08:23:11 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 08:28:58 --- quit: asie (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:29:11 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 08:33:23 --- join: hellen_haskeller (~HellenKel@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 08:39:19 ok, so my gforth has a depndancy hence why it would not load...is there a win32 binary for dos or windows with no dendancies? 08:39:33 *dependancies 08:42:07 <_spt_> hellen_haskeller: are you using gforth on a windows machine? 08:42:43 yes, hence the need for cygyn or how its spelt? 08:43:20 <_spt_> you have installed gforth in the normal way? 08:43:38 --- quit: hellen_haskeller (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:45:35 --- join: hellen_haskeller (~HellenKel@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 08:45:55 <_spt_> welcome back! .. 08:46:09 bad connection here... 08:46:40 and everyone brags about fibre while I\m at the bottom of the connectivity pool 08:46:43 <_spt_> hellen_haskeller: you don't need cygyn if you have installed the windows version 08:47:41 ok, gtn...it seems the gforth is complaining about not finding gforth.fi 08:48:01 <_spt_> if you go to your windows start button > all programs > and find the Gforth folder 08:49:02 the directories look like *nix style /usr/local which of course do not exist on windows 08:49:51 at least my version 08:50:37 <_spt_> my advice is to start over, uninstll, download the windows install . 08:52:04 <_spt_> I use gforth to restore Jupiter ACE (the forth computer) software , using Linux and windows machines 08:52:55 ok, will try another version also, all a really need is dos just to learn the basics 08:53:12 how to manipulate the stack 08:54:04 anyone suggest a version? 08:54:10 seems to be a lot to choose from 08:54:50 <_spt_> 0.7.0 is what I have on this windown 7 machine runs fine 08:55:33 <_spt_> see here for some books on Forth http://www.jupiter-ace.co.uk/index_forth_books.html 08:56:08 do you have the download link? 08:56:09 for binary 08:56:26 <_spt_> just looking on my servers 08:56:47 been using http://www.forth.org/compilers.html but don't see a 0.7.0 08:57:28 <_spt_> http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/ 08:58:00 looking forward to this language as an alternative to haskell...haskell community is a bit closed for guys who want to use only prelude 08:58:35 <_spt_> you should see a Win32 self installing in a zip package 09:02:56 --- quit: hellen_haskeller (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09:12:13 --- join: hellen_haskeller (~HellenKel@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 09:12:48 back from purgatory internet 09:13:45 have a link for 0.7.0 ? 09:13:58 <_spt_> http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/ 09:14:16 <_spt_> look for 02-Nov-2008 23:27 6.2M Win32 self installing 09:15:18 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 09:15:43 <_spt_> got it? 09:16:20 * hellen_haskeller looks 09:16:59 * hellen_haskeller makes a coffee while waiting for page to load 09:17:44 /me needs coffee 09:18:02 <_spt_> oh boy that a slow connection, I thought the Netherlands had fast connections 09:18:22 well at least I live in a place where they make excellent coffee in the mountains close by 09:18:47 <_spt_> nice. 09:19:01 smells devine! 09:19:29 hellen_haskeller, theres an alternative solution. install virtualbox, use that to create a linux virtual machine, install gforth in there 09:19:58 hellen_haskeller, are you saying you live in a coffee growing country and your coffee is fresh roasted? 09:20:06 <_spt_> I'll send you the file .. 09:20:20 i dont like any coffee except fresh roasted... i cant afford green beans right now :( 09:21:23 yes 09:21:40 where u at... ill be right there... lol 09:24:30 Van Halen sings a cool song about here 09:24:36 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:24:56 lol i never liked van halen, i never followed his music 09:25:10 if its not blues or its not classical guitar im not interested :) 09:25:16 <_spt_> which song is that then? 09:25:29 well, eddie van hallen is a must to listen to on the guitar...makes it talk 09:25:44 folk blues for me 09:25:48 julian bream makes the guitar talk 09:26:06 eddie van halen makes a guitar make stupid FAST noise 09:26:43 recalls theme song to Deliverance that is some cool blue folk 09:26:59 lol, stupid fast noise 09:27:31 <_spt_> its not bad for US folk music, get some Roy Harper in your ears! 09:28:49 james taylor and jack johnson are good, but not sure if they full under that genre 09:29:58 Hope. Roy Harper's song. Page, Gilmour, Townshend and others played it. 09:30:09 --- join: _spt2_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-209-61.as43234.net) joined #forth 09:30:57 connection keeps timing out...might have to wait till everyone here has their facbook and youtube fix 09:31:09 meaning, use the net when they are sleeping 09:31:32 miss the BBS days 09:31:50 How about Fido? :) 09:32:12 or AOL 09:32:28 --- quit: _spt_ (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 09:32:29 they even still exist 09:33:09 Too bad I lost my modem :) 09:33:14 <_spt2_> AOL in the UK is TalkTalk internet 09:34:27 lol, I remember lusting after an acoustic coupler 09:35:16 fido opus seadog... all dead 09:35:47 --- nick: _spt2_ -> _spt_ 09:43:35 6.3Mb, 1Kb/s...under 2 hours...smoking speed! 09:44:42 well it was a 1200 baud world for a while...didn\t they say that was the fastest theoretical limit for data communications? 09:55:30 --- quit: nop0x07bc (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 10:22:18 --- join: nop0x07bc (~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com) joined #forth 10:34:54 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 10:38:03 ok, that link was a better one, have gforth now to play with...thanks _spt_ 10:40:10 <_spt_> there are some books on forth here http://www.jupiter-ace.co.uk/index_forth_books.html 10:43:26 the one that came with gforth looks well done too, but thanks, looking 10:56:41 --- quit: hellen_haskeller (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:06:02 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 11:25:37 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 11:30:40 --- quit: koisoke_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 11:30:53 --- join: koisoke (xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 11:52:13 --- join: hellen_haskeller (~HellenKel@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 11:53:42 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 12:18:38 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 12:20:15 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12:25:50 is there a good link for listing where forth has influences, i.e. BIOS, Z80 etc 12:25:52 ? 12:35:32 --- join: kumul (~mool@72.50.84.203) joined #forth 12:55:02 --- quit: enthos (Remote host closed the connection) 12:56:53 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 12:59:14 hellen_haskeller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_%28programming_language%29 at the bottom of the sidebar 13:12:12 just getting it now 13:18:44 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 13:20:12 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 13:28:19 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 13:32:23 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@089144235037.atnat0044.highway.a1.net) joined #forth 13:36:51 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 13:38:37 --- quit: _spt_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 13:45:11 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 13:46:28 --- join: mnemnion 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(~HellenKel@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 16:51:55 --- join: saml_ (~saml@pool-71-190-4-101.nycmny.east.verizon.net) joined #forth 16:53:23 " while applications developed by competent, disciplined professionals have proven to be easily maintained on evolving hardware platforms over decades of use" 16:53:58 that is attractive 16:55:40 used in BSDs boot loader is a nice one 17:44:29 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 17:48:04 --- quit: TodPunk (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 17:57:16 --- join: karswell (~user@87.115.32.66) joined #forth 18:04:13 --- nick: Tod-Autojoined -> TodPunk 18:49:58 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 18:51:28 --- join: interpol_agent|2 (~HellenKel@186.73.24.236) joined #forth 18:52:38 --- join: DGASAU` (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 18:53:40 --- quit: john_metcalf (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:53:42 --- quit: Guest32291 (Ping timeout: 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