00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.04.09 00:15:47 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@37-144-5-20.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 01:15:26 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 02:15:31 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02:34:01 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 02:38:47 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 02:53:19 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 04:03:54 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 04:07:51 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:25:54 --- quit: Eth|cal (Remote host closed the connection) 04:27:48 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@139.216.253.31) joined #forth 05:29:20 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 06:10:43 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 06:50:52 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 247 seconds) 07:06:35 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 07:21:11 --- join: karswell (~user@31.185.197.105) joined #forth 07:27:09 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 07:27:53 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 07:57:05 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.56.218) joined #forth 07:59:11 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 08:13:06 --- quit: bbloom (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 08:17:55 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 08:18:12 --- quit: asie (Excess Flood) 08:19:16 --- join: bbloom (~bbloom@cpe-68-173-7-82.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 08:19:29 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 08:19:43 --- quit: asie (Excess Flood) 09:09:21 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 09:12:06 --- quit: Zarutian (Client Quit) 09:33:58 --- join: backz (~backz@189.120.201.91) joined #forth 09:34:14 cheers! 09:34:20 --- quit: kludge` (Remote host closed the connection) 09:36:11 hello 09:37:58 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 09:47:53 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 09:50:11 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 09:59:01 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:15:40 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 11:24:55 --- quit: malyn (Quit: malyn) 11:28:39 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-89-240-213-208.as13285.net) joined #forth 11:36:49 --- join: malyn (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 11:46:10 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (~Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 11:47:41 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:48:40 --- quit: TodPunk (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:51:51 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:52:49 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-89-240-213-208.as13285.net) joined #forth 12:38:58 --- join: Mat3 (~Mat@91-64-127-6-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #forth 12:39:01 hi all 12:53:41 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@62.Red-79-157-101.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 12:54:15 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 12:57:42 --- quit: rta (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:13:28 --- join: rta (~rta@2001:c08:3700:ffff::20b) joined #forth 13:16:58 --- quit: nop0x07bc (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 13:18:36 --- join: nop0x07bc (~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com) joined #forth 13:32:50 --- quit: aranhoide (Remote host closed the connection) 13:33:30 --- quit: nop0x07bc (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 13:37:12 --- quit: pvt_petey () 13:51:23 --- quit: Mat3 (Quit: Verlassend) 14:05:14 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 14:17:22 --- quit: goingretro (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:23:45 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:45:17 if I want to learn forth, but I dont know math, is it a fault? 14:46:37 --- quit: Eth|cal (Read error: Connection timed out) 14:52:53 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:52:59 backz: not really 14:53:05 maths hasn't really got a lot to do with computing 15:00:34 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-89-240-213-208.as13285.net) joined #forth 15:13:16 so, if I want to learn algorithms (I'll read knuth), do I need know math? 15:13:48 you're going about it the wrong way 15:14:05 why? 15:14:12 indeed 15:14:36 (this talk is offtopic, but this is about the process of learning) 15:15:25 --- quit: malyn (Quit: "") 15:15:51 --- join: malyn (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 15:16:36 --- quit: malyn (Client Quit) 15:17:17 --- join: malyn (~malyn@unaffiliated/malyn) joined #forth 15:19:52 ok 15:20:21 but if I want to learn how to set up a VPN box. do I need to know TCP/IP in detail? 15:21:02 what do you think about it? 15:21:26 backz: depends what you mean by "detail" 15:21:46 you wouldn't need to know the insides of TCP/IP to the point where you can write your own network stack 15:22:37 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 15:23:16 it really depends what problem you're trying to solve 15:24:17 I'm glad to find people like you :) 15:25:14 since we're off-topic anyway let me make a brief car analogy 15:25:34 I was banned from #openvpn because I dont know tcp/ip. So I should not be setting up a VPN box, according to the owner's values. 15:25:43 --- join: pvt_pete_ (~pvt_petey@host-89-240-213-208.as13285.net) joined #forth 15:25:55 ok, go on 15:25:56 the automotive engineer that decides what kind of bearing to use in an engine, might not necessarily be particularly great at identifying why that bearing is now making a funny noise 15:26:40 the "shadetree mechanic" knows exactly why it's making that noise, and neither knows nor cares why that sort of bearing was chosen 15:26:44 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 15:27:17 now, in computing there is still a lot of emphasis placed on "learning a language" and "learning algorithms" 15:27:31 which is great if you're looking to get hired by a bank, 30 years ago 15:28:22 I'd say now a far more valuable skill for a would-be programmer is learning the basics of project management and having a broad exposure to different languages and problems 15:28:22 so why learning language or algorithm isn't important nowdays in your opinion ? 15:29:15 so I think if I'm wrong or these people are crazy. I know there are a lot people here, from many countries, and many cultures. But it doesn't explain this reaction. 15:29:18 backz: because with certain notable exceptions (avionics for example) very few programmers follow such a linear path through a project 15:30:03 the idea that you pass the job interview by being able to recite pages and pages of Djikstra is outmoded 15:30:16 although it's the way a lot of Asian developers seem to go 15:30:31 so, this path: learn math, calculus and read knuth... is it outdated nowdays? 15:31:00 I know 15:31:37 where are you from? 15:42:21 * gordonjcp is from Scotland 15:42:34 learning maths is great *if* you're doing something maths-heavy 15:43:08 that said, I do some pretty serious DSP stuff and I barely scraped through high-school maths 15:43:27 I got about as far as complex numbers at school 15:43:30 I use those a lot 15:45:46 I do computer vision 16:33:33 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:41:13 --- quit: backz () 17:00:44 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:34:06 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@139.216.253.31) joined #forth 17:36:56 --- join: DGASAU` (~user@p50993595.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 17:38:37 --- quit: DGASAU (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:21:57 --- join: crc_ (sid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qstqdiasuiwjgrmu) joined #forth 18:22:10 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:22:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:24:12 --- join: Anarch_ (~olaf@c-73-53-44-165.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:24:36 --- join: koisoke_ (xef4@epilogue.org) joined #forth 18:24:42 --- join: backer_ (~backer@user-387h39d.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 18:24:51 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:24:52 --- quit: Anarch (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:24:53 --- quit: Zag (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:24:55 --- quit: koisoke (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:24:55 --- quit: yunfan (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:24:55 --- quit: bluekelp (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:24:56 --- quit: backer (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:25:30 --- join: yunfan (~root@unaffiliated/yunfan) joined #forth 18:26:24 --- join: Zag (~Zag@modemcable009.239-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 18:28:06 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 18:28:07 --- join: bluekelp_ (~bluekelp@2001:470:1:41:20b8:6275:8d63:31ee) joined #forth 18:36:59 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@98.255.30.38) joined #forth 18:44:39 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-225-126.prtc.net) joined #forth 18:55:06 --- quit: DGASAU` (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 19:10:04 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 19:19:45 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 19:21:17 --- join: backz (~backz@177.81.5.105) joined #forth 19:21:59 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-225-126.prtc.net) joined #forth 19:23:24 Men have become the tools of their tools :) 19:23:56 --- nick: backz -> backz_ 19:23:58 we just need AI 19:24:10 is there a forth optimizer around? 19:24:15 i think i've asked this question before 19:24:38 --- nick: backz_ -> backz 19:26:39 --- quit: impomatic (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:36:35 backz, if you dont answer i might think you are away, and were never "back" at all 19:37:30 oh, sorry, I was away. But no, I don't know about forth optimizer. sorry again 19:38:38 --- quit: pvt_pete_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 19:39:08 and now you are back! 19:39:12 :) 19:40:01 :) my nickname comes from a old spy program called Back Orifice. old times. do you remember it? 19:40:12 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-89-240-213-208.as13285.net) joined #forth 19:40:28 nope 19:40:56 old hacking days on win95 19:41:01 i'm only 23 19:41:07 ah, before my time then 19:41:29 so, I'm 28. 19:41:47 not too long, but in this area five years is a long time 19:42:29 I couldnt even read then! 19:42:46 --- nick: backz -> backz_ 19:42:48 I still cant, but that doesnt mean anything 19:43:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:43:56 it's true 19:44:24 where are you from? 19:45:12 somewhere in the caribbean 19:46:51 bahamas? 19:48:42 nope 19:48:44 PR 19:49:28 Puerto Rico? 19:49:35 yeah 19:50:16 PS your client probably has a thing called /country 19:50:23 amazing! I did a website for PR tourism on 2006-7 19:50:32 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:50:50 I've made 19:51:13 after bahamas islands, of course 19:51:54 this is a half country :) but is it better than cuba? 19:52:28 (i'm not talking about economy) 19:59:20 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 20:00:51 --- quit: backz_ (Quit: backz_) 20:04:05 well we dont have a dictatorship. so thats a point 20:05:54 we have nice beaches and nice environment. massive drug problem though 20:42:27 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@139.216.253.31) joined #forth 20:50:08 --- quit: rta (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20:56:35 --- quit: pvt_petey () 22:17:25 --- join: rta (~rta@2001:c08:3700:ffff::c1f) joined #forth 22:24:14 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 22:24:29 --- quit: asie (Excess Flood) 22:27:51 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:28:25 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@192.241.205.8) joined #forth 23:46:19 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:52:37 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.04.09