00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.03.12 00:07:24 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@98.255.30.38) joined #forth 00:10:04 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.178.170.29) joined #forth 00:11:01 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 00:12:05 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.137.28) joined #forth 00:45:20 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02:35:21 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02:40:27 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 03:27:15 --- quit: drobban (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:30:03 --- join: drobban (~drobban@mail.robacks.se) joined #forth 03:35:51 --- join: itsy (~digital_w@37.152.198.84) joined #forth 03:41:11 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 03:41:50 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 03:46:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:18:19 --- quit: mullein (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 04:22:31 --- join: mullein (~mullein@li257-145.members.linode.com) joined #forth 05:18:14 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 05:42:20 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:46:55 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06:09:18 Yeah - I don't think you can do that. Most implementations use the return stack to hold the loop counters. 06:09:49 You *can* do it, but you have to understand what the loop construct is doing to your return stack and work around that. 06:11:52 In gforth there are two things on the return stack, I beieve; the limit and the counter. So you could do 2r> rot >r 2>r inside the loop and then r> after the loop, and you ought to get what you want. 06:12:24 Or something along those lines. 06:12:41 I wouldn't count on it being awfully portable. 06:14:35 looks like he need a locally data stack inside the loop 06:19:32 I didn't actually look at the code. I was just commenting on specifically what he mentioned. 06:31:45 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 06:32:03 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 07:13:22 OliviaRocksA10! 07:13:48 Sorry - wrong window... 07:18:45 --- quit: mullein (Changing host) 07:18:46 --- join: mullein (~mullein@unaffiliated/mullein) joined #forth 07:19:11 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 07:41:50 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:46:14 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 08:21:09 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 08:32:04 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 08:35:36 --- join: Mat3 (~claude@91-64-127-6-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #forth 08:35:40 hello 09:04:31 Mat3: hi 09:08:13 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 09:21:09 hi gordonjcp 09:22:01 --- quit: Mat3 (Quit: Verlassend) 09:46:37 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 09:50:16 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 10:22:50 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 10:36:21 --- quit: itsy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:49:53 are there any examples of forth BNF ? 11:50:15 I have to write a formal description of how to translate between another language and forth 11:50:56 i think i told you this before, but you can't write a bnf description of forth... 11:51:41 you can write one for a limited subset i guess.. 11:52:30 but if you restrict your program from messing with the input stream i guess you could. 11:52:36 in which case it would look like this: 11:53:04 forth_program ::= (empty) | word forth_program . 11:53:21 that's pretty much it. 11:53:46 heh 11:54:27 so I got a new keyboard that puts most punctuation on the fn layer, and it turns out it's a bit of a pain to do programming in, except forth isn't bad at all 11:55:23 makes me roll my eyes at people who say nonsense like "lisp has no syntax" 11:55:36 "no syntax? I'll show you no syntax." 11:59:14 :) 11:59:35 for the record I love lisp; that specific claim is just silly 12:02:47 my professor insists you can represent forth in BNF :D 12:02:50 lol 12:03:11 okay, well he's wrong 12:03:14 yea 12:03:16 well 12:03:23 it's for a small subset of a while language 12:03:31 it doesn't have a context free grammar 12:03:56 "Forth syntax can be represented in BNF. Do let me know if you find a reference to anything that says otherwise. I am expecting to see a clear BNF or CFG formalisation of the fragment of Forth into which your compiler translates your while-language. (Then, ideally, you should then give a systematic presentation of the Forth translation for each grammatical rule of the source language.)" 12:04:09 tangentstorm, he probably knows everything, which we don't know. 12:04:14 ah 12:04:16 okay 12:04:20 well... there you go then. 12:04:51 he's just saying make something up. 12:04:57 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.90.184) joined #forth 12:05:09 you don't have to write a grammar for forth, just the portion of forth you're using as a target language. 12:05:59 hmm ok 12:06:21 think i need to read up on forth 12:06:53 but the fact that forth is stack based doesn't change how BNF might be represented? 12:07:03 probably quite an ignorant question 12:07:24 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:08:07 nope 12:08:43 Forth, in general, cannot be represented as a BNF. For example, you can't express a FOR/BEGIN/NEXT/WHILE/ELSE/THEN construct, which is perfectly legal Forth, but cannot be expressed in BNF because of how the constructs bind to each other. 12:09:06 That said, most programs follow a format that is relatively easy to satisfy with most BNF syntaxes. 12:11:56 so 12:12:10 that's a really big problem if you've got a language that uses while loops 12:12:15 on how to represent it 12:12:58 What is the problem, specifically? I ask because that monster construct above was used to address a specific problem which not everyone runs into. 12:14:56 really I'm just trying to get a feel for how I might write a target language specification 12:15:02 in BNF 12:15:09 Just remember that Forth compiles all branches in one of three forms: unconditional branch, branch on zero, and branch on non-zero. You can always emulate these in, e.g., C, with a for(;;){ switch(location) { ... }} loop, where each branch is, for example, if(t==0) { pop; continue; } 12:15:10 given my target language is forth 12:15:45 beer or not to beer. that is the forth question. 12:23:49 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 12:28:42 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 12:36:46 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-221-160.as43234.net) joined #forth 12:36:46 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 12:36:46 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 12:46:09 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:47:11 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 12:47:44 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 12:49:21 --- join: Azel (~Thunderbi@113.82.69.86.rev.sfr.net) joined #forth 13:01:53 be Er. 13:02:00 always be Er 13:18:15 To Er is human. To really fsck things up requires a computer. :) 13:31:18 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 13:50:03 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 13:55:56 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.90.184) joined #forth 14:20:33 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-224-53.prtc.net) joined #forth 14:24:12 --- quit: john_metcalf (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:35:34 --- join: itsy (~digital_w@37.152.198.84) joined #forth 14:57:56 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 14:59:05 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.90.184) joined #forth 15:20:44 --- join: goingretro (~kbmaniac@host81-132-82-210.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 16:34:32 --- quit: _spt_ (Quit: gone) 16:41:29 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.90.184) joined #forth 16:44:40 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:44:44 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 16:49:43 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 16:49:46 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.116.19) joined #forth 16:51:46 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 16:55:33 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 17:20:00 --- quit: daowee_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 17:33:24 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:36:18 --- quit: bluekelp (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:36:25 --- join: bluekelp (~bluekelp@2001:470:1:41:6c6a:53f8:852e:282d) joined #forth 17:41:01 --- join: kulp (kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 17:53:42 --- quit: crc (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 17:53:44 --- join: crc_ (sid2647@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kplmrekcqvosmqtr) joined #forth 17:54:35 --- quit: pvt_petey () 18:08:00 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 18:14:15 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-207-204-135-252.prtc.net) joined #forth 18:16:10 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:25:00 --- nick: crc_ -> crc 18:25:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v crc 18:27:06 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:36:15 --- join: noneofmynickswor (~mool@adsl-64-237-224-181.prtc.net) joined #forth 18:40:06 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20:06:06 just found a story from a guy in reddit, they had rewriting onboard instrument for world-class giant laser in Forth 20:06:30 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/203cyh/software_developers_fear_age_30/cg0wetd here is the link 20:28:19 --- join: nisstyre (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 21:00:56 --- quit: bbloom (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 21:01:22 --- join: bbloom (~bbloom@cpe-68-173-7-82.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 21:02:39 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 21:36:51 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 21:48:21 --- join: nisstyre_ (~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 21:48:46 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 22:11:56 --- quit: noneofmynickswor (Quit: Leaving) 22:19:23 so i saw many forth implement code use space as the delimiter when tokenizing, isnt it wrong? or the forth standard dont care of extensiable stuff? 23:10:16 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.116.19) joined #forth 23:53:23 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.03.12