00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.03.03 00:05:26 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-25-55-104.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 00:37:12 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01:33:42 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.178.163.125) joined #forth 01:33:43 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 02:08:01 --- part: impomatic left #forth 02:34:37 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:39:00 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 02:44:02 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:57:03 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 04:15:16 --- quit: nighty-_ (Read error: Operation timed out) 04:23:33 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 04:26:00 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 04:26:21 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 04:29:58 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 04:31:06 --- quit: bjorkintosh (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 04:50:18 --- join: bjorkintosh (~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net) joined #forth 05:13:01 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 05:13:31 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:17:52 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 05:39:03 --- quit: kc5tja (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 05:39:24 --- join: kc5tja (~sfalvo@166.78.62.138) joined #forth 05:39:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kc5tja 06:58:03 --- quit: itsy (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 07:14:02 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:18:12 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 07:22:39 --- join: pvt_pete_ (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 07:23:19 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 07:30:14 --- join: kumul (~mool@67.224.181.100) joined #forth 07:43:16 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Remote host closed the connection) 07:50:16 --- quit: pvt_pete_ (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:52:31 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 07:59:38 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 08:09:16 --- join: john_metcalf (~john_metc@94.116.197.134) joined #forth 08:15:41 --- join: karswell (~user@84.93.180.60) joined #forth 08:16:14 --- quit: john_metcalf (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 08:21:51 --- quit: joneshf-laptop (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:06:33 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 09:08:39 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 09:13:37 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 09:18:05 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 09:18:58 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 09:19:42 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 09:23:03 --- quit: nighty-_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:30:59 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 09:34:22 --- quit: bbloom (Read error: No route to host) 09:34:40 --- join: john_metcalf (~john_metc@94.116.30.122) joined #forth 09:37:31 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@LPuteaux-156-16-19-25.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 09:38:54 --- join: bbloom (~bbloom@cpe-68-173-7-82.nyc.res.rr.com) joined #forth 09:40:19 --- quit: john_metcalf (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 10:20:36 --- join: john_metcalf (~john_metc@89.206.243.204) joined #forth 10:21:18 ah a forth aspirant again in the warm shelter of #forth :-) 10:23:43 : maybe ( n -- ) IF S" forth to be" TYPE ELSE ." FORTH not be" CR THEN ; 10:32:08 everything is boring today, g8n. 10:32:13 --- quit: fantazo (Quit: Verlassend) 10:34:35 that was a bit strange 10:41:41 --- join: joneshf-work (~joneshf@167.222-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net) joined #forth 10:49:20 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-64-237-224-103.prtc.net) joined #forth 10:52:15 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:54:11 --- quit: dzho (Quit: leaving) 10:59:57 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:02:39 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:03:37 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:07:47 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 11:17:37 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 11:34:11 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:34:54 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 11:46:53 --- quit: nighty-_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11:50:35 --- join: dzho (~deejoe@quercus.etrumeus.com) joined #forth 11:56:29 --- quit: dzho (Changing host) 11:56:29 --- join: dzho (~deejoe@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 11:59:06 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@LPuteaux-156-16-19-25.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 12:07:13 --- quit: nighty-_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:13:44 --- join: impomatic (~john_metc@89.206.243.204) joined #forth 12:13:44 --- quit: john_metcalf (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:18:33 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 12:44:17 --- quit: kumool (Quit: Leaving) 12:46:54 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 13:01:52 --- quit: dzho (Quit: leaving) 13:04:15 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 13:06:41 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 13:26:55 --- join: dzho (~deejoe@quercus.etrumeus.com) joined #forth 13:27:14 --- quit: dzho (Changing host) 13:27:14 --- join: dzho (~deejoe@unaffiliated/dzho) joined #forth 14:38:15 --- join: pvt_pete_ (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 14:39:40 --- quit: pvt_petey (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 14:42:11 --- join: itsy (~digital_w@37.152.198.84) joined #forth 14:51:21 --- quit: pvt_pete_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 14:57:31 --- join: nisstyre (yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 15:09:26 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15:09:51 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@139.216.253.31) joined #forth 15:45:25 --- quit: _spt_ (Quit: gone) 15:47:20 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@host-92-16-158-80.as13285.net) joined #forth 16:30:13 --- quit: itsy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:31:51 --- join: itsy (~digital_w@37.152.198.84) joined #forth 16:46:53 --- quit: pvt_petey () 17:02:00 are fabs with 80 nm feature size tech still in use or have they been closed down or refurbised to smaller feature size tech? 17:03:12 just curious 18:07:43 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:17:15 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.151.45) joined #forth 18:24:55 --- quit: goingretro (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 18:37:05 --- join: goingretro (~kbmaniac@host81-132-82-210.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 18:40:19 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 18:41:17 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.151.45) joined #forth 18:41:52 --- quit: goingretro (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 18:55:18 --- quit: ASau (Quit: reboot) 18:59:22 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.151.45) joined #forth 19:23:49 as i know , 130nm still running 19:49:02 --- quit: joneshf-work (Quit: Leaving) 20:20:45 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-26-208-104.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 20:34:37 Yeah, loads of 130nm tech is still being made. 20:44:43 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:47:43 is there generally a cost difference or other reasons? (other than not spending the money to upgrade) 20:48:08 --- join: karswell (~user@84.93.180.60) joined #forth 20:50:29 Smaller geometry -> more devices per wafer -> greater profit. But also to lower yields -> lower profit. 20:50:36 Trade off. 20:52:22 Upgrade cost leads to higher profit stream. Time value of money. ROI. 20:52:35 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 21:14:56 --- join: PoppaVic (~Jhereg2@unaffiliated/poppavic) joined #forth 21:33:25 KipIngram: You could summarize that as "engineering". 21:33:38 Because AFAICT engineering consists almost entirely of balancing trade-offs. 21:33:45 wait! signs of life! 21:33:51 * PoppaVic pulls up a chair 21:38:21 ok, I was mistaken.. 21:38:32 --- quit: PoppaVic (Quit: Leaving) 21:54:10 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 22:02:12 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:02:35 signs of life! where? 22:03:18 --- quit: ASau (Quit: off.) 22:03:53 hrm - i'm going to guess that wafer costs are a smallish fraction of expenses, esp compared to the costs of new die tech - unless you're a huge manufacturer 22:11:04 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 23:14:31 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:16:44 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 23:35:35 Well, I thought the new PS/2 keyboard decoder would save a few bytes of memory, and it does, but not significantly so. :/ 23:35:45 1800 bytes for the old, vs. around 1300 for the new. :( 23:36:08 Curse you, PS/2 keyboard protocol engineers! 23:45:12 kc5tja: what's this in? 23:45:29 Machine Forth for my home-brew computer. 23:46:49 cool, what's it based on? 23:50:06 The CPU is a variant of the Steamer-16 MISC processor from back in the early 90s. Everything else is completely custom design. 23:53:04 hm, I've not run across that one 23:53:46 It's a bit obscure, but it's unique in that it's small enough to synthesize on a modest-sized CPLD chip (making it smaller than any other MISC out there). 23:54:02 I had originally intended to use it as a debugging aid while developing the rest of the Kestrel's chipset. 23:54:05 I must look into that 23:54:36 I'm currently working on a variation of Dave Dunfield's 6809 Forth 23:54:53 the 6809 is really almost ridiculously suitable for running Forth on ;-) 23:55:23 http://www.strangegizmo.com/forth/NOSC/msg00013.html -- this is where I first heard of it myself. 23:56:33 The 6809 is a nice CPU. My only beef with it is: (1) Motorola never made a chip faster than 4MHz, and (2) I really dislike its assembly syntax. Otherwise, it's surprisingly adept at most anything you throw its way. 23:57:01 Although, my all-time favorite CISC CPU family to date is definitely the 68000 family. :) 23:57:08 this is 1MHz with a couple of devices with closely-coupled timing 23:57:18 it's in a 1980s sampler, the Ensoniq Mirage 23:57:22 * kc5tja nods 23:58:08 When I first started working on the Kestrel-2 design back in 2007, I had originally wanted to use 65816 CPUs. Almost as fast as the 68000 at the same clock speed, but easier to use in hardware. (Software is slightly more complex, but not terribly so.) 23:58:45 But, once I started working on the Kestrel in FPGA, I realized, "Duhh, I can just write my own CPU and forego the 65816 all-together." 23:58:55 Hence why I'm now using MISC. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.03.03