00:00:00 --- log: started forth/14.01.18 00:14:55 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 00:56:29 --- join: aranhoide (~smuxi@129.Red-83-59-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 01:02:54 --- quit: aranhoide (Remote host closed the connection) 01:14:22 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@129.Red-83-59-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 01:23:38 --- quit: carc (Quit: QUIT) 01:24:18 --- join: carc (~carc@unaffiliated/carc) joined #forth 01:32:38 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Operation timed out) 01:33:43 --- join: karswell (~user@87.112.11.184) joined #forth 01:54:39 --- nick: tangentstorm -> littlejimmyprogr 01:58:22 --- nick: littlejimmyprogr -> tangentstorm 02:03:57 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:04:33 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 02:07:38 --- quit: jyc_ (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:09:34 --- join: jyc (~jyc@173.245.6.163) joined #forth 02:18:23 --- quit: cataska (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:24:09 --- join: obobo (~d@dyn-dsl-pt-66-79-242-181.nexicom.net) joined #forth 02:35:12 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:40:22 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 02:45:26 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 02:55:03 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 03:01:11 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 03:34:04 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@48.Red-83-59-4.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 03:54:19 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:16:39 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@48.Red-83-59-4.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 04:49:12 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 06:03:59 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 06:05:10 --- quit: karswell (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:24:44 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@87.112.175.212) joined #forth 06:31:11 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 06:41:53 --- quit: itsy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 06:57:44 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@48.Red-83-59-4.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 06:59:26 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 07:15:36 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 07:30:31 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 07:48:27 --- quit: dkordic (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 07:55:10 --- quit: Backer (*.net *.split) 07:57:43 --- join: Backer (~backer@user-387h39d.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 08:01:17 --- join: dkordic (~danilo@178-221-72-17.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 08:01:49 --- quit: Backer (*.net *.split) 08:04:19 --- join: Backer (~backer@user-387h39d.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 08:31:32 --- quit: asie (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 09:03:14 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 09:36:29 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 09:40:32 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 10:13:50 --- join: pvt_petey (~pvt_petey@82-69-79-20.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) joined #forth 10:14:19 hi 10:14:30 a rather broad question : 10:14:41 how would i go about writing down a language specification for forth ? 10:15:03 I've an assignment to write a forth expression analyser and I'm trying to figure out a good approach 10:16:42 a language specification? 10:17:13 well... http://forth.sourceforge.net/std/dpans/ 10:17:47 http://forth.sourceforge.net/std/fst83/ is much smaller 10:18:42 but that seems like overkill for an assignment... 10:18:46 pvt_petey: Or You just mean syntax specification. 10:19:27 I would do it like (Python3): src.split() # :) 10:20:00 well the actual task overview is on my blog : http://petercodes.wordpress.com/2014/01/15/languages-and-compilers-getting-started/ 10:21:06 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 10:26:36 dkordic : but the essence is that I have to 'produce and present details of the formal specification of the expression analyser, including the regular expressions for the tokeniser and BNF grammar that is implemented by the parse. The parser should have options to display the internal representation of parsed expressions in a easily readable form (e.g. using graphviz or similar). The final program should produce sensible error 10:26:37 messages if given ill-formed expressions. Well-formed expressions should be compiled into Forth code, which should be demonstrated to run correctly on the gForth interpreter' 10:27:02 sorry for the spam :) 10:27:41 --- join: klltkr (~textual@unaffiliated/klltkr) joined #forth 10:29:42 I followed the link. Why don't You simply use Forth. 10:30:54 i think because it's a small part of writing a compiler in java that compiles code in forth 10:30:54 I was plesently surprised that Forth is backend instead of C. But everything except Forth seems like horrible idea to me. 10:31:12 that's the second assignment ^^ :) 10:31:50 What?! C as backend? 10:32:09 front end java parsing and tokenization 10:32:17 afaik 10:34:18 --- quit: obobo (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:34:45 --- join: obobo (~d@dyn-dsl-mb-216-168-118-189.nexicom.net) joined #forth 10:39:02 but that's very much afaik :) 11:26:56 there is no bnf grammar for forth 11:29:27 i have written a compiler for a pascal-like language to a forth-like language, pvt_petey (pl/0 -> retroforth) 11:29:48 It can not be done? 11:30:24 what can't? a bnf grammar for forth? correct. not possible. 11:31:43 Why? 11:36:28 because forth has access to the parse stream 11:36:35 token stream 11:37:00 http://tangentstorm.github.io/winfield-pascal-83.html 11:37:07 sorry for the terrible ui on that article 11:37:26 ^ he basically modifies the forth syntax so it looks like pascal 11:38:11 you can basically make forth into anything you want. 11:38:24 like you could redefine ( to not be a comment any more... 11:38:58 or you could just start working directly with the input characters and not even worry about forth's space-based tokenizer. 11:40:10 even ." and ( are just normal words defined in the dictionary. 11:41:22 Oh I forgot about that. That is Madness :). 11:41:40 it's just a different kind of language. 11:42:38 you can parse simple languages like datalog or assembly language with plain old regular expressions, and for those you only need a state machine. 11:43:09 if your language lets you put structures inside each other (like nested parens or loops or whatever) then you need a stack machine... 11:43:43 then there's another layer up that i don't remember, and then you have languages like forth, which require a turing machine. 11:43:57 (so that you can reprogram it on the fly) 11:44:43 or something equivalent to a turing machine anyway... like forth itself :) 11:51:02 What is so interesting about Pascal? 11:52:54 dkordic: yeah 11:53:15 just about any string of characters can be the name of a definition 11:53:40 dkordic: so there's nothing to stop you writing : 42 ." Deep Thought lives!" ; 11:54:20 this would have unfortunate effects if you ever wanted to use the literal number 42 anywhere in your code 11:54:30 I did (something like) that. 11:54:37 dkordic: it's great 11:54:48 Pascal is like a chainsaw with a blade brake 11:54:52 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@host-92-12-214-244.as43234.net) joined #forth 11:54:52 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 11:54:53 --- join: _spt_ (~Jaat@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 11:54:54 Definitely. 11:54:57 type safety stops you chopping your leg off 11:55:04 Forth doesn't have a chain brake 11:55:13 be careful not to chop your leg off 11:55:21 if you *want* to chop your leg off, don't let us stop you 11:55:38 OK :) 11:55:57 sometimes you need to chop your leg off, in which case Forth won't get in your way 12:01:17 there's a picture in one of leo brodie's forth books that compares forth vs pascal 12:01:59 if i tell you it'll spoil it. let me find it instead. 12:04:53 https://github.com/tangentstorm/PL0-Language-Tools is my pl0 -> retro thing btw 12:06:17 cool ^^ tangentstorm :) 12:06:24 also 12:06:34 sure I've seen you on another channel ? :) 12:06:37 before 12:07:39 probably. #learnprogramming maybe? 12:07:42 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwO0SQND3WU5dkRoZloyaFVZdzA/edit?usp=sharing 12:07:46 yes I do linger in there :) 12:08:09 thx a lot :) 12:08:09 ^ that's the pascal vs forth thing .. p 48 (no idea how to link to one page) 12:09:17 pvt_petey: if you're interested in this stuff outside of the assignment, i'm actually working on a full pascal compiler. 12:09:45 I think it's something that would be good to do as a project after my final year ;) 12:09:47 or rather i want to take the existing public domain reference compiler for pascal and make it target retro's virtual machine. 12:10:11 haha ok. say no more, just thought i'd throw it out there. 12:10:17 sure :) 12:10:27 it's always good to get involved in new projects 12:10:41 and I normally linger in #learnprogramming so 12:10:46 sure :).. I can't discount it 12:16:10 anyway@tangentstorm - pascal is sufficiently close to java? 12:17:45 there are multiple dialects of pascal, but mostly today people use delphi... it has somewhat java-like classes and interfaces... more like c# (not surprising, since the delphi guy also made c#) 12:18:02 http://freepascal.org/ 12:18:30 but i'm spamming a forth channel so ask me in #learnprogramming if you want to talk more :) 12:19:17 ok ;) 12:41:28 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 12:54:16 --- quit: _spt_ (Quit: gone) 13:24:38 --- quit: regreg (*.net *.split) 13:24:40 --- quit: goingretro (*.net *.split) 13:24:40 --- quit: djinni (*.net *.split) 13:26:12 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 13:26:12 --- join: goingretro (~kbmaniac@host81-132-82-237.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 13:26:12 --- join: djinni (~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com) joined #forth 13:30:39 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 13:42:04 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 14:03:21 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-225-183.prtc.net) joined #forth 14:11:44 --- quit: dkordic (Read error: Operation timed out) 14:12:44 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@48.Red-83-59-4.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 14:13:29 --- join: dkordic (~danilo@178-221-72-17.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) joined #forth 14:27:25 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:33:44 --- join: aranhoide (~aranhoide@173.Red-79-155-208.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 14:56:24 there is no suchthing as spamming in here 14:56:36 its pretty much the ONLY rule i ever enforced in here 14:56:46 you can talk about anything what so ever in here 15:32:54 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@87.114.110.225) joined #forth 16:40:39 --- join: ASau` (~user@p54AFF123.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:42:29 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 16:43:33 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:44:25 --- quit: pvt_petey (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 16:46:07 --- join: joneshf-laptop (~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:55:27 I'm going to talk about what a bad person I440r is for enforcing and setting a no spamming rule 16:56:32 I'm going to write a bot that sends MAX_IRC_LINE_LENGTH lines to the channel until I440r adjusts his definition of spam 16:59:02 do it in forth, while I hold my breath 16:59:24 --- quit: regreg (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:59:42 kulp, what is that definition of spam btw? 17:00:37 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 17:14:20 mystery meat 17:22:00 --- quit: dkordic (Quit: Ex-Chat) 17:43:44 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 17:44:54 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 17:44:57 --- quit: TodPunk (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:32:02 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 18:35:13 ah, well. i guess my own personal rule is to try and stay at least close to the topic. i've seen too many forums turn into nothing but cat pictures. :) 18:36:57 kulp: There's no mystery as to what meat goes into Spam. It's all lips and assholes. 18:37:02 Same as hotdogs. 18:37:06 mmmm 18:37:20 dark meat 18:37:28 No, if you want to go truly scary, get the stuff that's called "potted meat product". 18:37:45 I can't conceive of ANYBODY (well, anybody human) who thought that was a good name for a food item. 18:40:18 kulp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potted_meat_food_product 18:40:24 Go down to the Ingredients list. 18:40:28 It's ... scary. 18:40:52 As soon as I see "mechanically separated" I curl into a ball and start screaming about pink slime. 18:41:05 I like to complain about mechanically separated 18:41:07 but really 18:41:14 it's not as if it's bad for you 18:41:14 "partially defatted cooked beef fatty tissue" 18:41:17 Yum! 18:41:21 I like tripe :( 18:41:30 I like tripe too. 18:41:54 It's the mechanically separated stuff and the "partially defatted ... fatty tissue" that bugs me. 18:43:54 Mechanically separated meat may have been deemed "safe" but it sure as fuck isn't appetizing. 18:44:13 It has a horrible texture, but at least it has all the flavour of tofu. 18:45:06 oh I see you have been cursed with a normal or better palate 18:45:15 Yes. 18:45:20 I have not \o/ 18:45:35 And while tofu may be tasteless (especially if prepared badly), it at least doesn't have a shitty texture. 18:50:05 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 19:01:50 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-64-237-225-183.prtc.net) joined #forth 19:05:06 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 19:16:48 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:17:07 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 19:17:16 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:48:31 --- quit: aranhoide (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:53:01 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 19:54:10 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:55:51 --- join: RomAbptTHN (~FhSnDRSzv@27.122.12.75) joined #forth 19:55:52 --- part: RomAbptTHN left #forth 21:20:39 --- join: noneofmynickswor (~mool@adsl-64-237-225-183.prtc.net) joined #forth 21:24:08 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 21:28:59 --- join: zIWYIiWPIS (~VHrQMjiBM@93.114.43.244) joined #forth 21:29:00 --- part: zIWYIiWPIS left #forth 21:34:19 --- join: kumool (~mool@adsl-64-237-225-183.prtc.net) joined #forth 21:38:04 --- quit: noneofmynickswor (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 22:19:27 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:27:02 --- join: nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 22:28:12 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.147.116.247) joined #forth 22:54:42 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 23:02:30 --- join: goingretro2 (~kbmaniac@host81-132-82-237.range81-132.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 23:02:31 --- quit: goingretro (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:31:03 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:43:51 --- join: noneofmynickswor (~mool@adsl-173-228-245-186.prtc.net) joined #forth 23:46:31 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23:56:21 --- join: asie (~textual@078088168214.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/14.01.18