00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.11.29 00:00:10 Flickr feeds. 00:00:18 Usenet posts. 00:00:42 IRC chats. 00:00:48 heh 00:00:54 Private channels don't really count. 00:01:00 It has to be "findable." 00:01:30 i think you've got the right approach in hitting the necessary factors. I'm still trying to think of all the necessary implications 00:01:46 Well, I'd love to continue this conversation over time. 00:01:54 We're pretty off-topic here, though. 00:02:24 heh. is there a channel where this isn't off topic? I hate to hijack chuck's stuff 00:04:29 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 00:09:08 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 00:31:25 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 01:20:33 --- quit: conjecTech (Quit: Page closed) 01:25:53 --- join: Tod-Autojoined (~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 01:28:31 --- join: karswell` (~user@87.113.101.71) joined #forth 01:30:45 --- join: Backer (~backer@user-387h39d.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 01:35:27 --- quit: ASau (*.net *.split) 01:35:27 --- quit: TodPunk (*.net *.split) 01:35:27 --- quit: karswell (*.net *.split) 01:35:27 --- quit: Backer_ (*.net *.split) 01:35:27 --- quit: newcup (*.net *.split) 01:35:27 --- quit: djinni (*.net *.split) 01:35:36 --- join: djinni_ (~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com) joined #forth 01:37:50 --- join: ASau` (~user@p54AFEEE1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 02:05:19 --- join: newcup (newcup@peruna.fi) joined #forth 02:38:31 --- join: protist (~protist@150.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 02:38:57 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:41:34 --- join: kumul (~mool@65-23-223-73.prtc.net) joined #forth 02:41:41 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 02:48:04 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:48:18 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-27-133-245.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 03:02:15 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@87.114.102.71) joined #forth 03:04:58 --- join: aranhoide (~smuxi@165.Red-83-40-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 03:06:27 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 03:08:08 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 03:17:59 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 03:20:09 --- join: protist (~protist@150.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 03:21:18 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 03:24:33 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 03:29:51 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 03:32:23 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 04:00:00 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 05:18:28 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 05:21:57 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 05:31:45 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 05:33:02 --- join: kumul (~mool@67.224.178.69) joined #forth 06:01:52 --- quit: kludge` (Remote host closed the connection) 06:05:05 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 06:07:46 --- quit: kludge` (Remote host closed the connection) 06:11:00 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 06:50:06 --- quit: kludge` (Remote host closed the connection) 06:53:14 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 07:22:45 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 07:26:08 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 07:36:44 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-86-23-93-89.brhm.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 07:36:51 --- quit: w0rm_x (Remote host closed the connection) 07:41:59 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-86-23-93-89.brhm.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 07:42:13 --- quit: w0rm_x (Client Quit) 08:15:38 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 08:17:41 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 08:17:46 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.130.118.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 08:17:52 hello :) 08:19:33 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 08:19:53 asau definitely is a destroyer of enthusiasm for forth 08:20:14 i was low for a whole of 3 days after listening to him talk against forth 08:20:24 that too on this channel dedicated to forth 08:24:06 :-) 08:24:24 :) 08:24:48 You just have to learn to filter out his negative stuff. Some people advise ignoring him completely, but I've found there are some useful bits of stuff in his words. 08:24:56 You just have to patiently wait for them. :-) 08:25:05 hmnn, okay... 08:26:12 i hope those useful bits of stuff in his words aren't a honeypot for his negative side 08:26:26 Well, you never know. 08:26:30 :D 08:26:47 But he's *here*, and shows no signs of not being here. He's pretty much been on the channel for as long as I've known about it. 08:27:09 You can always filter him if you want to. :-) 08:27:19 wasn't he *kicked* out by the channel admin once? 08:27:31 And meanwhile I am VERY enthusiastic about Forth. :-) 08:27:40 I don't know the channel history that well. 08:27:50 what sort of stuff do you do with forth? or intend to? 08:29:43 I've used it in a number of ways over the years. I'm not doing anything with it at work right now, but on the hobby front one of my primary things right now is the design of a processor (that could be deployed in an FPGA or a custom IC) that's very very Forth oriented. 08:29:48 does gforth has epoll support? 08:30:48 Basically it's a stack-based processor that's designed to make the overhead of subroutine calls as close to zero as possible. Since a central Forth philosophy is to "factor, factor, factor." 08:31:05 hmnn, very interesting 08:33:30 My long term interest there is to have a processor that I absolutely control and understand from the gate level up, and then build a Forth-like OS on top of it that I also absolutely control and understand from the bottom up. 08:34:03 you could :] 08:34:25 hasnt someone build theirown 8bit cpu from wires? 08:34:28 Not really interested in using it to play movies and surf the web - more interested in console-based stuff and I consider the work to achieve that entirely within my reach. 08:34:42 I hadn't heard that one, but it wouldn't surprise me. 08:34:59 kipingram: have you heard about "btron"? 08:35:01 Did they somehow use delays to implement logic functions? 08:35:13 it's a project initiated by Ken Sakamura in Japan 08:35:18 i am more interesting of using forth to modern server programming 08:35:22 mayuresh: No. 08:35:46 like using forth to develop a redis like kv datastore 08:35:50 kipingram: do google for "btron ken sakamura" 08:35:52 --- quit: kludge` (Quit: leaving) 08:36:06 or a sqlite like db 08:36:18 jyf: if you're planning to use forth for server end stuff, then you're missing the point 08:36:24 Just as a point of interest, one of the things I've recently realized is that words like >R, R>, R@ are all nice for letting the Forth programmer create new control structures (by tinkering with the return stack). I've done that myself many times. 08:36:49 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 08:36:52 mayuresh: have you tried nginx? 08:36:52 But it's also the case that those words DESTROY the ability to prefetch as effectively as you otherwise would, so I've come to consider them very performance-limiting. 08:36:55 forth is supposed be a very "nice" way of controlling the hardware by getting just right distance from it. :) 08:37:06 nginx focus performance and it gots the goal 08:37:17 jyf: i've heard a lot about nginx, is it programmed in forth! 08:37:20 ;) 08:37:22 but user also need flexiable, so they have to import lua for configure 08:37:39 but lua have large overhead compare to onetime http request 08:37:39 lua has a different set of goals from forth 08:37:44 so i think why not use forth? 08:37:52 forth is simple 08:37:59 forth is beautiful 08:38:03 Yes. 08:38:07 also redis is another example 08:38:10 but, only as long as you're really close to the hardware 08:38:21 redis also focus on performance 08:38:21 I agree - I am a fan of Forth on bare metal. 08:38:34 so at the begining, they invent many and many command 08:38:51 jyf: if you need high performance in a multi-core setting, go for ada95 under rtems 08:38:53 but user now need more command which is just a combination of some simple commands 08:39:11 so in redis2.6 they inlucde lua as a server side scripting system 08:39:37 I once used Forth as a scripting language in a pick-and-place machine. 08:39:51 user could reque to eval a lua script in redis side, it do lots of simple command aand return the finnal result to requester 08:40:09 jyf: that's because lua is designed to be a good scripting engine for applications 08:40:10 also lua have large overhead compare to one time redis request 08:40:22 i am consider to use forth for that 08:40:39 jyf: forth might be a tad be awkward to use in the cases you've mentioned 08:40:51 mayuresh: yes, but in this specific envionment, most feautres are not needed 08:41:32 mayuresh: i do sever programming job daily, i could saw the needs from my view 08:41:43 jyf: can't you custom configure lua to eliminate the stuff you don't need? 08:42:01 jyf: especially just before you build lua! 08:42:04 mayuresh: nope , because some features are in the core 08:42:14 jyf: you could always consider rebol 08:42:25 i knew rebol even before lua 08:42:34 long time ago 08:42:38 yeah 08:42:44 i've no idea what it is now 08:42:58 but at that time, it really shocked me 08:43:08 so small size and still have ui support 08:43:24 but now i knew win32forth could do better :] 08:43:24 jyf: if you're not shocked by forth and lua, you should be okay with rebol :) 08:44:39 mayuresh: btw, why bitcoin choose a forth like scripting in their transation protocol? 08:44:59 isnt their because its simple and still powerful? 08:45:12 jyf: i have no idea about bitcoin 08:45:16 so no comments :) 08:45:58 do you know sqlite has a vm inside which is very different from other sql db 08:46:57 nope 08:47:11 i've only heard about sqlite, never used it 08:47:36 so what do you do on job? 08:48:06 my job is primarily as a "technology adviser" to web based companies 08:48:26 i have close to 14 years of web engineering experience :) 08:48:41 14 years of which lang? 08:48:59 no specific language 08:49:07 they come and go so rapidly :) 08:49:16 yes 08:49:23 i keep myself abstracted from that level ;) 08:49:28 first people will choose whatever a language 08:49:39 and then they got a favorite framework 08:50:00 that's why i find solace with forth, it's just the right level of abstraction from the bare-metal :) 08:50:02 next they got favorite pattern and do it in every language they use 08:50:14 finally they decide to go lower 08:50:51 forth to me is not a low level language, i think its a flexiable layer with almost no overhead 08:51:10 or maybe the thinnest layer 08:52:10 jyf: you've seen the truth 08:52:27 compare to the host, for eg, i use python to implement my pyforth, its performance could be like the same as native python code if i pay much more on optimizating 08:52:43 other dsl, cant got this 08:52:51 hmnn 08:53:36 alrighty, i gotta go 08:53:51 time to hit bed, day begins early tomorrow. :) 08:54:01 nice talking with you folks :) 08:54:20 --- quit: mayuresh (Quit: off to bed) 09:12:49 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:13:04 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 09:45:16 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 09:56:09 jyf: good luck beating Lua on server side. :D 09:56:59 Learning why they switched from stack-based VM to register-based one between Lua 4 and Lua 5 is a good example how you do that. 10:01:31 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-226-74.prtc.net) joined #forth 10:27:00 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: leaving) 10:27:46 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:45:54 --- quit: kumul (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:01:32 --- join: nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 11:17:41 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 11:23:41 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-226-74.prtc.net) joined #forth 11:33:32 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:43:20 KipIngram: is your fpga forth processor open source? 11:50:33 Heh heh. My FPGA forth processor is non-existent at this point. 11:50:51 I recently had some entirely new thoughts and started reworking it. 12:10:53 There has been attempts to marry Forth with TTA. 12:13:05 Straightforward attempts to marry Forth to hardware resulted in Jazelle mostly. 12:13:34 Though I don't know how frequently Jazelle is used in practice. 12:17:18 Hmm.. I was thinking that most successful example of Forth in hardware is RTX2010 :) 12:18:35 I have suspicion that it is exactly that company that went bankrupt afterall... 12:20:28 Inersil and Cassini are both still alive :) 12:24:06 Does that mean that Forth survives only under condition of uncontested government funding? ;) 12:26:21 KipIngram: kulp is also working on an fpga-based machine.. haven't heard much about it in a while though. 12:27:00 http://tenyr.info/ 12:27:31 ASau: There are some people in NASA who (still?) like Forth. 12:31:17 This is exactly what I mean. 12:31:46 There're some people who love Forth and have ties in government-funded agency. 12:32:15 --- join: aranhoide (~smuxi@108.Red-83-59-2.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 12:34:42 "The HS-RTX2010RH TForth compiler from Intersil translates Forth-83 source code to HS-RTX2010RH machine instructions." It's interesting that they decide not to mess with ANS. 12:35:07 Pf. 12:35:22 The reason is quite understood. 12:36:33 1. Old people who started doing Forth when it was in hype and cannot adapt their rusty brains to new environment. 12:37:09 2. Custom software and hardware that doesn't need to collaborate with anything else. 12:37:39 --- join: mtm- (~mtm@c-24-130-130-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:38:26 --- quit: mtm- (Remote host closed the connection) 12:39:56 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-86-23-93-89.brhm.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 12:40:51 --- quit: w0rm_x (Client Quit) 12:42:42 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:42:57 do you use ANS forth, ASau? 12:44:28 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.138.5.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 12:44:45 tangentstorm: asau only works on "pforth"... :P 12:45:05 tangentstorm: asau works on forth because he's supporting legacy code 12:45:25 tangentstorm: if asau had his way, he would have obliterated forth 12:45:28 :D 12:45:43 i just wasn't sure if his brain was old and rusty or not. 12:46:18 tangentstorm: his brain is sour and slippery 12:46:23 ;) 12:49:51 anyone here played with a "fignition infuze"? 12:49:57 http://hexus.net/tech/news/systems/59193-fignition-infuze-20mhz-8-bit-computer-kit-now-available/ 12:51:45 Sometime ago I found this: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ashleyf/archive/2012/02/18/turtle-graphics-on-the-fignition.aspx A nice tiny turtle graphics implementation on Fignition board. 12:53:57 nope 12:54:04 but it looks like fun. 12:55:54 true-grue: that's cool, thanks for that link 12:57:06 alrighty, off to bed, this time for sure... ;) 12:57:18 --- quit: mayuresh (Quit: off to bed) 12:58:17 That is cute... 13:06:29 --- join: aranhoide (~smuxi@108.Red-83-59-2.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 13:06:51 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 13:18:16 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:19:11 --- nick: crc_mobile -> crc 13:19:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +v crc 13:20:41 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:30:43 --- join: spoofer (~cruella@72.10.28.164) joined #forth 13:33:48 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 13:37:33 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.33.217) joined #forth 13:39:47 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 13:46:45 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@cpe-192-136-220-10.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 13:58:24 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 14:06:14 --- quit: spoofer (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14:06:47 --- join: spoofer (~cruella@72.10.28.164) joined #forth 14:07:08 --- quit: robonerd (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:08:02 --- join: robonerd (~user@unaffiliated/key) joined #forth 14:13:54 --- join: aranhoide (~smuxi@108.Red-83-59-2.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 14:14:10 --- join: ASau` (~user@p5083D4AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 14:16:55 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:19:43 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:20:38 --- join: yiyus (1242712427@je.je.je) joined #forth 14:45:55 --- quit: aranhoide (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 14:55:27 --- join: aranhoide (~smuxi@10.Red-83-59-6.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) joined #forth 15:04:44 --- join: Azel (~Thunderbi@125.82.69.86.rev.sfr.net) joined #forth 15:16:34 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 15:47:18 --- nick: LinearInterpol -> LinearInterpolsu 15:47:24 --- nick: LinearInterpolsu -> LinearInterpol 16:58:36 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-86-23-93-89.brhm.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 17:00:13 --- quit: w0rm_x (Client Quit) 17:00:45 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-86-23-93-89.brhm.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 17:01:11 --- part: w0rm_x left #forth 18:22:55 anyone awake? 18:24:14 heya 18:26:19 got an arm linux board? 18:27:14 i have an android tablet and an android phone. 18:27:37 hrm not sure these will work on android YET 18:27:57 i saw an arm simulator last time i talked to you. 18:28:20 actually, it looks like there's a bunch of them. 18:28:20 a free one? 18:28:39 that can also simulate linux system calls? that part is kind of important lol 18:28:51 tho the lack of that i can work around mayb 18:28:53 e 18:29:02 dunno 18:29:09 http://code.google.com/p/armware/ is under the GPL2 18:29:12 well im actually past needing this mostly i think 18:29:13 er 3 18:29:29 im sure there are still bugs in the kernel but maybe not many 18:29:44 hrm.. that simulator does appear to be running linux 18:30:47 actually lol why didnt i see this BEFORE!!! lol 18:33:11 you were focused on making things :D 18:33:35 heh 18:33:46 well if u want to look at the sources they are at 18:33:54 http://www.isforth.com/a4.tar.bz2 18:34:00 this is not a release yet 18:34:22 the licence is "eval" sort of. it will be released as "use and abuse as you see fit" later 18:35:02 ok :) 18:35:40 i'm juggling about 10 things at the moment, but i do look forward to trying this... especially on android. 18:36:19 are the system calls that different on android? 18:36:45 haha are you calling it a4? :) 18:37:02 my forthlike thing is called b4 :) 18:37:03 arm forth. it doesnt really have a name yet 18:49:13 --- nick: mark4 -> I440f 18:49:14 --- nick: I440f -> I440r 18:49:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 18:50:11 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 19:02:57 --- quit: dkordic (Quit: Ex-Chat) 19:44:47 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-226-74.prtc.net) joined #forth 19:49:10 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 19:58:59 --- nick: Tod-Autojoined -> TodPunk 20:16:36 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 20:16:51 --- join: conjecTech (~alex@c-98-251-50-173.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:59:39 --- quit: spoofer (Remote host closed the connection) 21:04:27 --- join: kumool (~mool@67.224.178.69) joined #forth 21:04:36 --- quit: kumool (Client Quit) 21:05:05 --- quit: bjorkintosh (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 21:07:52 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 21:11:48 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 21:20:25 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-86-23-93-89.brhm.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 21:24:40 --- quit: w0rm_x (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 21:28:55 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:29:20 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 21:49:05 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.33.217) joined #forth 22:22:36 --- quit: conjecTech (Quit: Leaving.) 22:38:00 --- join: conjecTech (~alex@c-98-251-50-173.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:45:39 --- quit: robonerd (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 22:55:18 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-26-152-142.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 23:35:06 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 23:38:22 --- quit: conjecTech (Quit: Leaving.) 23:39:06 --- join: conjecTech (~alex@c-98-251-50-173.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) joined #forth 23:39:49 --- join: ASau (~user@p5083D4AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 23:49:39 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 23:52:18 --- quit: conjecTech (Quit: Leaving.) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.11.29