00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.11.23 00:10:28 --- quit: robonerd (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 00:11:23 --- join: robonerd (~user@unaffiliated/key) joined #forth 00:20:44 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 00:22:03 --- join: yiyus (1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de) joined #forth 01:38:24 --- quit: robonerd (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 01:39:20 --- join: robonerd (~user@unaffiliated/key) joined #forth 02:08:54 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 02:22:00 bluekelp: yes, there exists such research. 02:22:43 You can find comparison of stack-based vs. register-based VMs (stack-based lose) by Ertl, AFAIR. 02:23:34 Leroy mentions that the main problem of VMs is dispatch loop. 02:24:09 --- quit: yiyus (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:24:54 Also see the result from Lua land. (Stack-based lose.) 02:27:24 jyf: branch prediction affects performance to such an extent that in C code people mark more probable and rarely probable branches. 02:31:35 i wonder if part of that is because they're running on register based hardware though. 02:32:13 That may be. 02:34:41 jyf: http://igoro.com/archive/fast-and-slow-if-statements-branch-prediction-in-modern-processors/ 02:35:11 Wrong prediction can get your program about 10 times slower. 02:35:18 Or more. :) 02:41:21 tangentstorm: after some thought, in fact it depends on being register-based less than you think. 02:42:20 Memory pressure is higher for stack-based architectures. 02:43:01 So, you can get more problems with memory caching. 02:43:25 Or simply ineffective memory access. 02:43:27 i wonder if using a very tiny vm in ram would change things. 02:43:55 No, it doesn't help. 02:44:04 because the vm itself would be doing one specific routine with very little branching. 02:44:14 No, it doesn't help. 02:44:33 haha ok 02:44:34 You think that TC dispatcher does a lot while in fact it doesn't. 02:45:43 You can rewrite your data in FIG style which corresponds 02:46:12 to rewriting one single trampoline into series of mutually recursive subroutines 02:46:19 with tail calls eliminated. 02:46:26 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 02:46:28 It still branches a lot. 02:47:19 I suggest that you lift Leroy's papers, he discusses that in more details. 02:47:41 Sorry, I don't remember which paper exactly, but it shouldn't be hard to find. 02:48:45 i missed who leroy is 02:48:51 Xavier Leroy of O'Caml fame. 02:50:00 One of indications that "small VM" strategy doesn't help is that programmer language people still do JITC and similar things to boost performance. 02:50:02 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 02:50:14 If the stategy worked they wouldn't need it. :) 02:51:28 what does TC dispatcher mean? 02:51:34 threaded code? 02:51:47 Yes. 02:51:54 I think that it is this one http://pauillac.inria.fr/~xleroy/bibrefs/Leroy-ZINC.html 02:52:03 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 02:52:06 or some other related paper. 03:44:38 --- join: protist (~protist@42.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 03:52:09 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 03:54:22 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 04:54:39 --- quit: true-grue (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:56:36 --- quit: Bahman (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:09:49 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 05:27:18 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 05:41:42 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 06:56:13 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 07:48:37 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 08:07:05 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 08:09:26 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@li674-202.members.linode.com) joined #forth 08:09:31 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 08:10:46 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@li674-202.members.linode.com) joined #forth 08:18:13 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-226-161.prtc.net) joined #forth 08:28:59 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 08:30:18 --- quit: robonerd (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:31:23 --- join: robonerd (~user@unaffiliated/key) joined #forth 08:52:32 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 09:09:50 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:16:49 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-25-2-2.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 09:31:50 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 09:50:23 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 10:16:15 --- quit: robonerd (Quit: zzz) 10:17:41 how close is forth to postscript? 10:17:48 or postscript to forth, rather? 10:24:00 It has GC and Postscript is totally postfix unlike Forth. 10:24:27 forth is not postfix, totally? 10:24:43 ie, forth is prefix or infix ? 10:25:19 I.e. no WORD/PARSE/etc. Also there is no macro/meta-like features: no IMMEDIATE, COMPILE etc. 10:25:34 are they not composable within PS? 10:25:46 Forth is mostly postfix. 10:26:35 Consider : foo .. ; and /foo { .. } def 10:27:00 : is prefix, but def is postfix word that takes two arguments from stack. 10:27:31 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 10:28:36 gotcha. 10:29:19 I.e. Postfix has name/atom and code literals. 10:29:27 PostScript :) 10:30:36 yeah. programmers are lazy about naming things. 10:30:52 i mean. C? R? Forth? Prolog? no. not ambigous at all. 10:31:15 postfix. postscript. etc. 10:31:32 couldn't it have been named, say, glooog or something :) 10:31:46 Once I made a language called Forpost :) 10:31:48 something easily google-able. 10:31:55 good. that's easy! 10:31:59 very good. 10:35:57 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 10:43:36 --- quit: regreg (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:57:21 3:"0 ] 1 2 3 4 NB. apply to each item of the list 10:57:23 3 3 3 3 10:57:26 whops 10:57:28 sorry 10:59:56 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:06:08 Looks like J :) 11:09:16 it is j! :) 11:09:48 trying to figure something out over in #jsoftware... i just hit the wrong button in tmux and it pasted prematurely :) 11:19:31 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 11:20:34 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:20:34 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 11:23:05 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 11:42:26 --- join: nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 12:18:44 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 12:29:40 --- join: kumool (~mool@66-50-97-148.prtc.net) joined #forth 12:41:35 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 12:41:59 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 13:31:25 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:48:45 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 13:59:56 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 14:05:12 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 14:14:23 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 14:19:38 --- join: ASau` (~user@p54AFFE7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 14:20:32 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14:23:48 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:28:07 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:29:24 --- quit: nisstyre (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:36:49 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.147.86.136) joined #forth 14:52:10 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 14:52:15 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 14:56:52 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 15:01:13 --- join: nighty^_ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 15:01:16 --- quit: nighty^ (Client Quit) 15:04:48 --- quit: nighty^_ (Client Quit) 15:05:47 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 15:13:01 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 15:14:12 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.147.86.136) joined #forth 15:26:46 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-82-26-214-139.pete.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 15:27:05 --- part: w0rm_x left #forth 15:31:44 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 16:00:28 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 16:06:31 --- join: ASau (~user@p54AFFE7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 16:07:52 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 16:29:50 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b025:d9ed:d8a7:48a6:bc11:e4af) joined #forth 16:42:14 --- join: protist (~protist@229.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 16:57:16 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17:01:58 --- quit: goingretro (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17:06:15 --- join: goingretro (~kbmaniac@host86-157-24-207.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 17:06:19 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 17:35:28 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-82-26-214-139.pete.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 17:44:37 --- join: beretta (~beretta@74.135.127.101) joined #forth 17:46:02 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 17:59:12 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@8.23.141.40) joined #forth 18:00:20 ASau: how do ppl mark the likelihood in C? is that a compiler specific #pragma or something? 18:28:43 --- quit: regreg (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20:23:44 --- join: nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 20:29:12 --- quit: mnemnion (Remote host closed the connection) 20:39:23 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 20:49:58 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:14:20 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 21:20:59 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 22:28:26 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 22:29:43 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@8.23.141.40) joined #forth 22:34:08 --- quit: mnemnion (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 22:59:57 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 23:02:00 --- quit: kumool (Quit: Leaving) 23:07:13 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 23:33:32 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@37-144-9-196.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 23:48:54 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 23:57:38 --- quit: regreg (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.11.23