00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.11.21 00:08:20 --- join: cataska (~cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 00:19:56 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 00:22:35 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 00:22:47 OK, I love the name 1-Wire now that I've looked at it. 00:22:48 "One distinctive feature of the bus is the possibility of using only two wires: data and ground." 00:22:58 It's called 1-Wire because it uses two wires... 00:23:01 Brilliant! 00:23:39 nice! :) 00:24:35 have you met those old times that a forth runs as the only program in the machine? 00:25:52 I've only ever used Forth on such platforms. 00:26:50 so what do you use that for on such platforms? 00:29:53 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.173.246.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 00:30:00 hello :) 00:30:10 discussing 1-wire devices!! 00:30:17 is it the ibutton? 00:30:19 :) 00:31:26 anyways, just dropped in to say "hi" :) 00:32:16 --- quit: mayuresh (Client Quit) 00:56:22 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 00:59:38 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 01:13:26 jyf: I'm sure that it is not a big problem to find standalone version of FIG Forth, write it to image file and boot it in QEMU pretending you're running such a system. 01:13:48 Try doing anything useful in it, and you'll find how easy it is. 01:15:36 --- part: w0rm_x left #forth 01:16:29 Or you can find F83 and do approximatly the same. 01:16:56 In any case, most probably you'll have really rudimentary text editor that is worse than TECO. 02:19:41 --- quit: regreg (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 02:46:33 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 02:49:46 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 03:03:36 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 03:30:07 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 04:08:29 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 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(~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 20:11:07 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 20:21:04 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 20:31:30 ASau: its not the point to find a standalone forth, the key point is most people wont use computer that way today 20:32:36 but now with the modern browser, people could treate a single browser tab as a machine 20:32:48 and run a standalone forth inside it 20:33:11 with the modern api support like storage api and web socket, you could just do anything 20:39:18 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 20:46:38 --- quit: regreg (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 20:58:42 there's lots of interpreters for browsers 21:04:13 none of them acts like i said 21:32:16 i heard a couple of people still program in forth 21:32:56 In practice Retro converted to running on a specially designed VM at some point. 21:33:08 There was implementation of that VM in Common Lisp even. 21:33:53 I think there were implementations in javascript as well. 21:34:00 Their fate is known, still. :) 21:37:47 jyf: you can start writing in Scheme within a day and get much further than you can do with Forth in years. 21:38:52 Especially if you count the time to port all the software stack from drivers up to TCP (at least) into Forth. 21:41:44 yes retro's vm sounds great for this 21:42:24 i learn scheme and forth both 21:48:55 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 21:50:23 --- join: nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 22:02:37 Personally, after looking at the direction crc took back then I stopped looking at Retro. 22:03:32 which direction? 22:03:38 and have you checked factor? 22:04:33 what's crc? 22:04:49 is there any software concept out there that's so cool it's jaw dropping? 22:04:58 i feel left out 22:05:24 jyf: inventing yet another VM to run Forth implementation. 22:05:32 Yes, I have seen Factor. 22:06:19 what's retro? 22:06:21 anyone? 22:06:26 Look it up. 22:06:33 retro forth 22:06:43 brought by crc_mobile 22:06:55 don't be a dick ASau 22:06:59 No, it is brought not by Charles. 22:07:11 looking stuff up is so 2003 22:07:13 Charles just picked up what someone else stopped working on. 22:07:26 okay then what do you think on factor? 22:07:30 ASau so what's the coolest work going on in software now? 22:09:02 In general Factor looks like a modern PostScript. 22:09:25 but they said its like a scheme using forth's syntax 22:09:45 Or that. 22:10:14 Except in Scheme pretty nobody writes code in a style that is as stupid as this one: 22:10:32 "john@foobar.com" >>from 22:10:33 { "jane@foobar.com" } >>to 22:11:11 i wonder what the perfect syntax is 22:11:18 the perfect programming syntax 22:11:56 It is hard to notice here, but ">>" is assignment, not binding. 22:13:53 If you look here: http://gitweb.factorcode.org/gitweb.cgi?p=factor;a=blob;f=basis/smtp/smtp.factor;h=78c0fad40f06e442fa088390f95ebefbe544e44b;hb=HEAD 22:14:11 You'll see that it is more like PostScript than Scheme. 22:20:49 well scheme's syntax looks beatiful but if you use it for real work, you'll lost in the sea of brackets 22:21:11 at least to me, i like forth's simplified on syntax cause i dont use emacs 22:22:12 You didn't do anything yet, did you? 22:22:30 Start writing the same thing in Forth and in Scheme in parallel. 22:22:44 After some time it will be clear what lags behind. 22:23:07 And "sea of brackets" is well-known non-argument. 22:23:29 Get a text editor that highlights matching parentheses. 22:23:37 --- quit: nisstyre (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22:24:33 Lisp programmers use editors that highlight parentheses, support indentation and moving across properly nested parentheses. 22:26:06 no i am a vimer 22:26:20 it hurt when you got too many level 22:26:55 and its too loong when you sometimes just want to express a small logic 22:27:05 * jyf i think that's why they invented haskell? 22:28:04 If you get too deep, it's a sign to factor you code. 22:28:32 And, no, Haskell is much harder than you think. 22:28:51 nope, when i invented a firsts lambda for my practise reading "the little schemer" 22:29:01 its brackets are too much to me 22:29:50 Can you recall priority levels for <$> and +++ off top of you head? 22:30:13 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 22:31:29 of cause i could control my code not to use $ , but i cant avoid brackets in scheme 22:31:31 With code full of <* *> <+ +> <<< >>> << >> and so on, it may be much harder to follow than ten levels of nesting. 22:32:03 Try to avoid parentheses in Haskell. 22:32:26 i am not refer to haskell above 22:32:38 And turn this [censored] layout-sensitive "syntax" off before you do that! ;) 22:33:52 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.151.155) joined #forth 22:36:04 as you wish 22:40:02 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 22:40:40 In any case, complaining that some language requires writing too many parentheses 22:40:56 after a language where in every such case you need separate definition in global space 22:41:01 that's really stupid. 22:49:26 okay if i need to talk with you next time , i would do that 22:54:03 jyf: I told you. :) 22:56:02 ttmrichter: nope, i could accept someone's rule if i need to talk with him 22:56:15 this is what games play 23:51:05 --- quit: Azel (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23:58:43 --- quit: mnemnion (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:59:25 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@8.23.141.40) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.11.21