00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.11.13 00:28:13 hey ttmrichter ... any word on your hardware stuff? 00:28:40 Still waiting for a reply from GA. 00:28:52 We're playing the Time Zone Tango right now trying to arrange a Skype call. 00:29:07 what's GA? 00:30:46 greenarray? 00:30:54 oh... 00:31:08 if so...nice! 00:31:35 * tangentstorm would be glad to hear news about an F18 discovery board :) 00:38:16 Still working on it. I have the venture capital to make it if I can come to some kind of arrangement with GA. 00:38:53 nice! 00:39:39 then why not just have it done? 00:39:49 cant wait to bought such a board 00:41:17 jyf: Making something suited to the target market includes supplying software that highlights the chip's capabilities and includes some kind of working hardware to bit-bash. 00:41:28 So I want input from GA about what they'd consider appropriate. 00:41:46 Basically if they're interested in supporting the notion, it indicates that I won't be fighting with the supplier. 00:44:17 well their chip support bga and there're many factory that could help you do that 00:44:30 they accept orders from 1k+ 00:45:04 its seems you just got money and components that you want , then you gave them the order 00:45:07 and wait 00:46:04 There are many factories that can help me with systems software? With figuring out what kind of hardware is best-suited to the chip? 00:46:54 oh you are talking about sys software 00:46:59 i thought that's your job 00:47:09 You're still missing the point of an eval board. It's a board intended to permit users to quickly and easily get up to speed on a piece of hardware. Given that the GA144 is new to me I can't do that without spending months on research and testing. 00:47:19 It is my job. 00:47:26 But the people who make the chip know what the chip is best-suited for. 00:47:30 Are you not reading? 00:47:47 requote â So I want input from GA about what they'd consider appropriate. 00:48:05 --- quit: w0rm_x (Quit: if Î¦ Î£ e : Ï then Î¦ Î£ Ï' â Ï' :: â) 00:48:21 okay 00:48:39 I *COULD* spend months and months figuring this out for myself. Or they could send me an email saying "we are targeting applications that do and think that something like would be a good demonstration". 00:48:49 I'd still write the software, but I'd write it with some direction. 00:49:19 ok my mistake 00:49:26 Then there's also the whole licensing of arrayForth/polyForth to consider. 00:49:41 Perhaps, too, some discounts on the chips since I'm basically making a marketing tool for them. 00:49:55 So loads of things to negotiate. 00:57:25 why you need a license for that? 00:57:40 i thought everyone use that chip should get the permission , isnt it? 01:06:00 Redistribution. 01:48:07 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@95-25-104-234.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 02:08:27 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.158.71.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 02:08:51 hello :) 02:13:37 Evening, mayuresh. 02:13:50 heya ttmrichter, good evening... :) 02:13:51 Don't like #yfl anymore? 02:14:08 #yfl is good for general multi-language-mode discussion 02:14:22 but, i intend to focus entirely on forth. :) 02:14:27 Ah. 02:14:51 Too bad. You didn't get to see my proof of intense boredom. :) 02:15:00 :) 02:15:03 http://vpaste.net/sZNjx 02:15:08 You know you're bored if... 02:15:43 you should've been here last night (our time). 02:15:58 it was good fun interacting with asau... ;) 02:16:06 you know what i mean! :) 02:16:11 That's a pleasure I generally try to overlook. 02:16:24 is there a clog for this channel? 02:16:44 Not that I know of. If it's not announced in the /topic it's actually against Freenode rules to log. 02:17:25 I'm logging locally 02:17:33 Sorry. PUBLICLY log. 02:17:37 beware what you talk about! 02:17:47 Obviously they can't stop people from locally logging. 02:17:53 :) 02:19:07 http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/forth/13.11.12 02:19:22 read it from 06:57:01 02:19:41 upto 07:07:54 02:24:06 It gets entertaining reading mark4's stuff too. 02:24:13 I should start a list: things mark4 hates. 02:24:17 1. GNU. 02:24:19 2. GDB. 02:24:21 yeah, i am reading :) 02:24:23 3. Richard Stallman. 02:24:28 4. Mailing list. 02:24:30 5. Github. 02:24:33 6. Minorities. 02:24:39 (I'm only assuming the last one.) 02:24:53 7. crazy jokes ;) 02:25:07 but mark4 does seem to be a nice guy 02:25:30 he wrote me a mail sort-a apologizing for his temper :) 02:27:04 It's not the first time he's had a blow-out and it won't be the last. 02:27:17 The only good thing is that with his temper his blood pressure will kill him young. 02:27:30 gawd 02:27:34 that's bad 02:27:40 I'm a bad man. 02:27:48 I'm just a COURTEOUS bad man so I fool people. 02:27:48 like james bond? :) 02:28:09 Like James Bond, yes, but much rounder. 02:28:21 still couldn't figure out, is james bond a bad man doing good things, or a good man doing bad things... ;) 02:30:58 Or a bad man doing bad things while pretending it's good. 02:31:14 I suspect we're not meant to actually think so much about James Bond flicks. :) 02:31:27 :D 02:34:14 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 02:42:42 Oh, another one. 02:42:45 8. California. 02:42:53 :D 02:43:04 9. "Communists" (where it's defined as "anybody with politics I disagree with"). 02:43:16 rotflmao 02:44:41 That's actually one half of American political definitions. 02:44:56 "Communist": anybody whose politics don't agree with a right-winger. 02:44:57 oh, okay 02:45:03 :) 02:45:05 "Fascist": anybody whose politics don't agree with a left-winger. 02:45:20 --- quit: kludge` (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 02:45:21 So I'm called both "communist" and "fascist" because of my own politics. 02:45:35 Because I come from a country that recognizes that there's more than two polar extremes. 02:45:51 in that case, i'm quite "apolitical" ;) 02:46:00 if such a word exists... :) 02:46:34 It exists. 02:46:49 My own politics can be summarized as "a pox on all their houses". 02:47:13 umnn, couldn't get that one? 02:47:20 what's a "pox"? 02:47:27 like a red mark? 02:47:30 Literally it's a disease. 02:47:36 Chicken pox. Smallpox. 02:47:37 oh, okay 02:47:53 It's also a slight misquote of Shakespeare because that's how I roll. 02:47:59 :D 02:48:26 --- join: kludge` (~comet@unaffiliated/espiral) joined #forth 02:51:15 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:12:15 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.60.196) joined #forth 03:15:37 hi bahman :) 03:15:52 Hi mayuresh! 03:16:41 Yeah, Bahman's the only #yfl regular that also hangs out here, though cfa should too. 03:17:12 Oi ttmrichter! 03:17:35 :) 03:17:52 Looks like interesting channel (#yfl). 03:18:17 true-grue: do check it out, it get's extremely interesting in there... :) 03:18:39 ok :) 03:21:48 btw, who were "protist" and "anannie"? 03:23:27 --- quit: Eth|cal (Quit: Leaving) 03:25:55 mayuresh: I don't know. 03:26:18 i was reading the old logs, and found them to the first ones on the channel 03:26:27 somewhat like adam and eve? ;) 03:29:40 gotta go now 03:29:44 see you all later... :) 03:29:52 --- quit: mayuresh (Quit: "snack time") 03:44:21 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:46:39 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:46:49 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:47:22 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.158.71.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 03:49:20 hello :) 03:55:24 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 03:58:59 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 03:59:14 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:59:26 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:12:18 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 04:12:32 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 04:13:08 --- quit: mayuresh (Quit: Leaving) 04:30:30 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 05:02:11 --- quit: jonkeydonk (Quit: Page closed) 05:06:25 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@WatchGuard.ellsworth-hs.ellsworth.k12.me.us) joined #forth 05:07:50 Back for more abuse are you? 05:18:43 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@139.216.253.31) joined #forth 05:59:11 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 06:31:56 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 06:33:35 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 06:37:37 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@cpe-192-136-220-10.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 06:54:24 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 06:54:37 hey 07:02:19 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:09:38 Hey. 07:16:27 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 07:24:39 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@37-144-176-77.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 07:44:53 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 08:16:44 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 08:21:59 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 08:26:46 --- join: true-grue (~quassel@37-144-17-149.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 08:28:25 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@WatchGuard.ellsworth-hs.ellsworth.k12.me.us) joined #forth 08:39:49 --- join: mnemnion (~mnemnion@c-98-210-219-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:40:31 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.134.197.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 08:40:45 hello :) 08:52:29 --- quit: mayuresh (Quit: "off to bed") 09:15:19 --- join: sirdancealot1 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) joined #forth 09:15:29 --- quit: sirdancealot1 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:17:13 --- join: sirdancealot1 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) joined #forth 09:17:20 --- join: sirdancealot2 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) joined #forth 09:17:27 --- quit: sirdancealot2 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 09:21:42 --- quit: sirdancealot1 (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09:26:46 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 09:27:19 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 09:28:03 --- quit: asie (Client Quit) 09:30:25 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 09:39:32 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@lns-bzn-49f-62-147-170-46.adsl.proxad.net) joined #forth 09:43:39 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 09:48:34 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:50:33 --- join: alexshendi (~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) joined #forth 09:59:41 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 10:13:01 g'mornin 10:14:18 * mnemnion is flying out the day before Forth Day :-/ .... 10:14:24 didn't know 10:14:33 Good morning, but it is already evening here. 10:15:18 alexshendi: traditions differ, but on my old channel, we normally greet by our local planetary slice 10:15:40 thus you might reply 'good evening' and then we both know something ;-) 10:16:39 you could be in Berlin or Bangkok, really. I'm probably on the west coast 10:17:25 I know mayuresh is burning midnight oil, as usual 10:19:09 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 10:21:23 mnemnion: I beg forgiveness for ignorance of #forth traditions. 10:21:35 hah 10:21:57 I know nothing of #forth traditions; my channel was long ago, and on another server 10:22:34 * alexshendi stands corrected 10:22:56 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 10:24:01 perhaps I'll greet with "Good xx:00 GMT" in future ;-P in any case, no offense taken so no forgiveness needed. 10:24:38 alexshendi: are you new to Forth, or #forth? For me, both. 10:25:41 mnemnion: I have once tried Forth and am rediscovering it. I am new to #forth. 10:28:13 nice ^_^ my interest here is in microcontrol/embedded, mostly 10:29:17 mnemnion: which processor? I'm on Desktop/Linux. 10:29:59 any of them! that's one of the reasons I like Forth 10:30:20 it's just barely enough abstraction over the assembler logic to work the same way on different systems 10:30:46 right now I'm using Gforth on Unix. my code has two word dependencies that prevent moving to pforth until I can translate them 10:30:57 but I'm intending to use the latter, because I don't like the GPL so much 10:31:04 --- quit: alexshendi (Quit: Leaving) 10:31:44 My next step is to start writing some Atmel/Arduino Forth, I have a Flora on my desk and a couple other small atmel micros coming in the mail. 10:32:18 --- join: alexshendi (~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) joined #forth 10:32:45 mnemnion: Sorry, accidentally disconnected! 10:34:21 mnemnion: What are you using gforth for? 10:34:36 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@WatchGuard.ellsworth-hs.ellsworth.k12.me.us) joined #forth 10:36:18 to learn, mostly. that is, gforth was the easy environment with a few convenient libraries 10:36:48 I'm implementing a version of this https://github.com/mnemnion/ax 10:37:56 and then... we'll there's more to come. I try not to get too ahead of myself. check out urbit.org for context. 10:38:54 --- join: RJones (~RJones@WatchGuard.ellsworth-hs.ellsworth.k12.me.us) joined #forth 10:39:20 --- quit: LinearInterpol (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:39:56 I have already browsed urbit.org. It came up in my twitter timeline ... 10:42:21 it's interesting stuff 10:42:54 you should get a couple destroyers while they're free 10:43:11 it's kind of like being able to register domain names before what 92? 10:43:22 there was some point where you just had to ask nicely. Urbit's there right now. it won't stay that way. 10:53:11 --- quit: RJones (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 11:00:39 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 11:03:46 --- quit: alexshendi (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:17:02 --- join: alexshendi (~loongson@HSI-KBW-078-043-199-120.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) joined #forth 11:18:38 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 11:43:43 --- join: asie (~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl) joined #forth 12:07:16 --- join: BlueSmoke999 (~HumanBot@dsl-vlan429-66-18-205-203.nucleus.com) joined #forth 12:15:29 --- quit: nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 12:34:42 --- join: LinearInterpol (~RJones@cpe-76-179-150-229.maine.res.rr.com) joined #forth 12:34:47 --- quit: asie (Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours.) 12:45:28 --- quit: BlueSmoke999 (Quit: Not that there is anything wrong with that) 12:46:37 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-86-25-30-182.midd-bam-1.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 13:13:47 --- quit: true-grue (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:41:31 --- quit: mark4 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:17:19 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 14:32:41 --- quit: w0rm_x (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 14:44:07 --- quit: alexshendi (Quit: Leaving) 14:46:38 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@cpe-192-136-220-10.tx.res.rr.com) joined #forth 14:58:05 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-207-204-173-8.prtc.net) joined #forth 15:05:13 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:21:27 --- join: Azel (~Thunderbi@83.82.69.86.rev.sfr.net) joined #forth 15:22:59 --- join: kumul (~mool@adsl-64-237-224-97.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:16:13 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-81-107-143-174.midd.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 16:21:47 --- quit: w0rm_x (Quit: if Î¦ Î£ e : Ï then Î¦ Î£ Ï' â Ï' :: â) 16:49:31 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 16:50:14 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~ErhardtMu@host157-79-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 16:50:16 --- join: Zarutian (~zarutian@194-144-84-110.du.xdsl.is) joined #forth 17:48:48 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.133.114.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 17:48:53 hello :) 17:49:35 hello mayuresh 17:50:27 been watching various forth-day videos and noticed that the majority of developers are way senior. 17:50:43 any reason why the younger generation isn't interested in forth? 17:50:57 it's such a great environment for embedded systems work. 17:51:09 hello kumul :) 17:51:39 and given the current day leanings towards embedded systems development, 17:51:50 forth should be attracting the youngsters more 17:51:57 yeah, me for one got attracted 17:56:02 not that at 37 i can be considered young... ;) 17:56:11 There's old saying from one classic novel that goes like "it may be good at making friends, but how good is it at preserving them?" 17:58:21 You can look around and see that some former Forthers are regulars of TCL, Python and Java groups for a long time now. 17:58:37 you included? 17:59:13 No, me excluded since I prefer other languages. 18:00:42 which ones do you "prefer"? 18:00:55 how dare you mayuresh ASau is a true hipster 18:01:13 :) 18:01:49 Yeah, I earned more using Common Lisp and Scheme than using Forth (even though I did that as well). :D 18:02:03 you earned what? 18:02:33 you recommended mercury to me right? 18:03:24 Well... If you like it, maybe Mercury is fine to you too. 18:03:31 i dont think CL and schemers are hipsters, you want to use emacs? go do that 18:03:32 Try it and see. 18:03:42 i didnt try it 18:04:16 kumul, don't, at the end of the day, most people have only 10 fingers on the hands. ;) 18:05:36 That you have ten fingers rather than one is the main reason to prefer Emacs to some stupid programs that can only beep and spoil everything. 18:06:09 strange asau, you definitely don't make sense... 18:07:16 now asau is going to come up with something even more acidic ;) 18:07:27 or mostly vague stuff 18:07:29 as usual 18:07:32 :D 18:09:01 sadly acme is still awesome to me. 18:09:35 yeah, i've heard quite a bit about acme, isn't it the one by rob pike? 18:09:42 yep 18:10:34 kumul: do you use acme under plan9? 18:10:38 i hate vim modes though, whats so wrong with holding ctrl? you hold shift everyday 18:11:00 mayuresh, i used to use wily. but i dont do heavy stuff 18:11:21 kumul, what do you use now-a-days? 18:11:40 mayuresh, you can use acme via plan9port, its really easy to install 18:11:59 or acme, but i never got that running 18:12:09 s/acme/inferno/ 18:12:33 the problem with plan9 and inferno is that most stuff doesn't work with it 18:12:55 whats "most" here? 18:12:56 i tried using plan9front on my system, wouldn't go into graphical mode at all :( 18:13:15 most == hardware 18:13:30 it won't support my usb mouse at install time either 18:13:35 nor my display 18:13:42 you install it, and you need to have $PLAN9 env var set, thats all 18:13:52 ? 18:13:54 oh, you meant the front 18:14:00 yes 18:14:00 yeah that doesnt work for me either 18:14:08 so you work at the console? 18:14:11 cool 18:14:20 i meant the text ui 18:14:28 or rather the cui :) 18:14:31 the old used to work on my old desktop, not on this laptop. nor will i try to delve further 18:14:40 i dont use plan9 18:14:43 i just use the tools 18:14:47 okay 18:14:56 which is the port. 18:15:12 what ever i've read about plan9, definitely makes me feel interested :) 18:16:33 Morning. 18:16:43 good morning ttmrichter :) 18:17:55 ttmrichter, you still use TA? 18:18:03 kumul: Yep. 18:18:11 what's a TA? 18:18:22 Textadept. An editor. 18:19:18 reading about it... 18:19:33 looks nice, lua as scripting langauge, hmnn... :) 18:19:41 Not just a scripting language. 18:19:53 Aside from the editing core (Scintilla) the editor is written in Lua. 18:20:11 So it's pretty decently hackable. 18:20:15 oh, like emacs is written in elisp? 18:20:20 Right. 18:20:29 But unlike Emacs it doesn't suck out of the box. :) 18:20:53 :D 18:22:28 My actual editing policy is ABE: Anything But Emacs. 18:22:38 same here. 18:22:47 TA is my favourite for GUI environments. Vim is my fallback for text environments. 18:22:55 yeah 18:23:12 But I'm willing to use any editor (up to and including ed, perhaps even TECO) EXCEPT Emacs. 18:23:35 :D 18:23:55 I'd rather use cat, frankly, than Emacs. 18:27:39 kumul: do you know of any forth implementation running under plan9? 18:27:44 ttmrichter: do you really making that board or its just a plan 18:28:13 I am working with some elec-engs on a VC-funded startup. 18:28:27 --- join: ASau` (~user@p54AFF4A7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 18:28:27 We're evaluating several possible projects and the GA144 one is on the table at the moment. 18:28:50 I'm actually sufficiently interested that if this doesn't get selected I will probably go ahead on my own. 18:28:50 okay, that's good 18:29:03 is there any milestone timepoint? 18:29:20 can we bought that in 2014 18:31:11 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 18:31:12 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 18:31:58 anyone here using amforth? 18:32:07 If we go ahead with this the hardware will be ready before the end of January. If I have to do it alone the timetable is ... murky. 18:32:19 I'm not a hardware engineer so I'd have to be learning some skills to get up to speed. 18:33:02 And I'd have to front the cash for production as well. 18:34:14 ttmrichter: are you building a forth computer? 18:34:56 mayuresh: I want to make an eval board for the GA144 chip. 18:35:01 Which is kinda/sorta a Forth computer. 18:35:13 okay 18:35:13 In that it is a stack machine. 18:35:19 okay 18:35:24 Or, rather, 144 stack machines. 18:35:33 oh, yeah, i'd heard about it 18:35:41 from greenarraychips 18:35:42 right? 18:36:53 That's the one. 18:37:06 The only eval board currently available for it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too expensive. 18:39:42 ttmrichter: no insolence, but, why not just use an atmel avr mega running amforth? 18:40:05 Because I'm a dilettante and can do whatever amuses me. 18:40:13 :) 18:40:14 Having a small chip with 144 cores amuses me. 18:40:21 check out http://www.ecrostech.com/AtmelAvr/Butterfly/images/BflyCarrier.jpg 18:40:35 Also, having a small chip with 144 cores will blow any Atmel chip out of the water. 18:40:47 ttmrichter: yes it will :) 18:41:23 Mind you, even the smallest, slowest of the STM32 line will blow any Atmel chip out of the water. And likely be in the same ballpark for pricing. 18:41:38 power draw? :) 18:42:00 2mhz clockable upto 8mhz for 20 cents 18:42:12 hmnn, that's quite unbeatable, isn't it? :P 18:42:25 not too bad (the stm) but not uber low like the atmels 18:42:42 a whole lot more functional for "bigger" apps though 18:43:02 i still have a soft spot for the "gimme power and that's all i need" avr/pics for hobby stuff though 18:43:15 The power draw on the STM32L line is pretty amazingly low. 18:43:31 Let me pull up the spec sheet. 18:45:16 In active mode 214ÂµA/MHz. 18:45:26 In sleep mode 50ÂµA/MHz. 18:45:40 In lower power run mode 9ÂµA/Hz. 18:45:55 In low power sleep mode 4.4ÂµA/Mhz. 18:46:04 (low power run) (/MHz) 18:46:11 Stupid fingers. 18:46:49 D'oh! 18:46:52 Stupid brain. 18:47:05 Low power run mode is 9ÂµA period. 18:47:13 Low power sleep mode is 4.4ÂµA period. 18:47:48 Stop mode ranges from 0.65ÂµA to 1.6ÂµA depending on what's activated and what voltage level you're using. 18:48:06 Standby mode ranges from 0.3ÂµA to 1.3ÂµA. 18:48:12 Again depending on what you're running. 18:48:41 The slowest wakeup time is from standby and that's 50Âµs. 18:48:48 i haven't played with the L line yet - still trying to get my f----ing f4 running a custom forth 18:48:57 should have just ported armforth :) 18:49:11 Yeah, I'm getting that same feeling. 18:49:35 but it's a (frustrating) learning experience. trying to "port" jonesforth but doing it iteratively 18:49:51 But the L line is pretty amazingly low-power for a 32-bit processor. 18:49:54 havent' gotten very far - even getting gdb to reliably work took a while 18:50:03 That was my first barrier too. 18:50:09 i'll check it out - assume they have a discovery board? 18:50:11 I didn't want to have to work in a Windows VM to program my kit. 18:50:26 Two now. The one I have is being phased out. 18:50:44 now that i have gdb working i'm trying to grok forth fully and am missing something about the TIL concept 18:51:06 Jonesforth is indirect threading IIRC, right? 18:51:28 i've been tempted to use c and just write stuff for it, but really really want to "win" and learm me some arm asm and really "get" forth 18:51:49 i get the types confused so i'm not a good one to ask 18:52:11 jonesforth was the first and one forth that had readable source code (IMO) so i stoppe dthere 18:52:18 S'ok. I just checked. Yes, it's the classic indirect threading. 18:52:38 This is the STM32L board I have: http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/LN1199/PF250990?s_searchtype=partnumber 18:52:44 only* one 18:52:57 This is its replacement: http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/LN1199/PF258515?s_searchtype=partnumber 18:53:37 oh nice. it has ADC in it? (the chip) 18:53:46 Basically it's identical. I suspect there's some minor changes on its layout. 18:53:49 --- quit: mayuresh (Quit: "off for a bath") 18:54:17 A few yes. 18:54:33 Quoting: 18:54:33 Rich analog peripherals (down to 1.8 V) 18:54:33 â 12-bit ADC 1 Msps up to 24 channels 18:54:34 â 12-bit DAC 2 channels with output buffers 18:54:34 â 2x Ultra-low-power-comparatorsï 18:54:34 (window mode and wake up capability) 18:55:16 This is the other, new STM32L line: http://www.st.com/web/catalog/tools/FM116/SC959/SS1532/LN1199/PF259096?s_searchtype=partnumber 18:55:44 Different microcontroller. Eval board only has two buttons and four LEDs, of which 2 are user-accessible. 18:56:22 cool. so this is a noob question but just how hard/impossible is it to bit-bang usb? the f4board has usb but others won't 18:56:34 (or if i embed stm32s in other projects) 18:56:52 Depends on the chip. 18:57:05 If the chip has USB support built-in, it's easy. 18:57:20 If not ... get a USB/serial bridging chip and avoid USB at all costs. 18:57:34 (Oh, and by "easy" I mean "doable as long as you don't mind a bit of patchy baldness".) 18:57:57 ah ok. i think i have one from my avr programming days 18:58:02 The STM32 has USB in almost all their chips I think. 18:58:21 It's in the STM32L chip I've got. 18:58:45 It's in my F103 as well. Definitely in all the F3 and F4 chips. 18:58:47 interesting. would have thought a low power/functionality chip like that would omit it. very cool 18:58:49 Don't know about the F0 chips. 18:59:20 It's NOT in the F030. 18:59:47 Not in the F051 either. 18:59:57 So I'm pretty sure none of the F0 line has USB. 19:00:50 * ttmrichter curls up into a ball as he stumbles over the timers again. 19:00:58 well serial is def easier to do on the chip anyway - plus it should be duplex (unlike my plan of mimicking a usb keyboard) 19:02:26 OK, F0 has no USB. F1, F2, F3, F4 and L all have it. 19:03:27 Maybe the various "value line" chips won't have it either. Downloading the spec sheets now. 19:03:52 if the L does and has that low power consumption i'm sold 19:05:01 Huh. Even the value line chips seem to have USB outside of the F0 range. 19:05:23 well now i'm all hot on serial instead :) 19:05:38 --- join: w0rm_x (~w0rm@client-81-107-143-174.midd.adsl.virginm.net) joined #forth 19:05:58 What were you hot on before? 19:06:25 --- part: w0rm_x left #forth 19:06:40 usb. well really just getting my head around forth innards now that i have gdb/basic asm down 19:13:49 Honestly serial is far simpler. 19:14:02 damn, someone just made a website sharing the same idea of mine 19:17:30 luckily ideas aren't worth much or i'd recommend you sue him/her :) 19:18:01 unless you're after the "fame" of being the one with the idea 19:19:21 nope 19:21:08 i am just feel that is a very dark horse idea 19:21:39 maybe its just the programmers popular are become bigger and bigger :[ 19:26:13 Well if it's up on a website now it's not dark horse any longer. :) 19:35:22 --- quit: john_metcalf (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:36:47 --- quit: Zarutian (Quit: Zarutian) 19:40:08 i still have chance :] 19:40:34 this just give me a push to quickly accomplish my version, currently i just designed the db schema 19:45:39 --- join: mayuresh (~mayuresh@triband-mum-120.60.133.114.mtnl.net.in) joined #forth 19:46:13 hello :) 19:49:07 jyf: what was your dark horse idea? 19:52:57 mayuresh: to make a website for people managing their knowing facts, mostly based on relations 19:53:19 jyf: you should take a look at gnowsys 19:53:36 mayuresh: for eg, your name mayuresh is an entity, now i know it has relation with irc 19:53:51 and other might saw this nick in twitter or anyother sites 19:54:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOWSYS 19:54:22 jyf: you can learn a lot from them 19:54:34 when people searching this, both relations would display and help people made decision 19:54:40 i worked on a change of architecture suitable for embedded systems 19:54:54 never saw the light of the day, though... :) 19:55:07 mayuresh: will have a look on that 19:55:54 especially, stuff that manages semantics of the data contained within the system 19:57:40 it original from my needs for identity cheater in house market 19:57:57 aah... :D 19:58:13 and after that, i think it could be use on other domain from the abstract level 19:58:13 jyf: that's a noble goal 19:58:24 yeah 19:58:49 mayuresh: btw, my website would require prove for each relationship 19:59:12 jyf: you are essentially building a 'wot' 19:59:16 when you say `mayuresh` is a nickname in irc, you need to prove that by providing a screenshot 19:59:24 wot -> web of trust 19:59:38 jyf: screenshots can be manipulated 19:59:58 jyf: try to tap into the irc network and identify the user 20:00:00 mayuresh: i heard that word in Freenet 20:00:20 jyf: you can use the nickserv stuff 20:00:43 mayuresh: yes, but first you need to providing that image, and when people dont believe you, they will identify their selves 20:00:59 jyf: that's weak 20:01:08 mayuresh: just like in offline life, different people got different repulation 20:01:15 isnt that? 20:01:23 jyf: you need to have better credential management approach 20:01:37 in the offline world, a lot of things are factored in 20:01:54 mayuresh: that would be two complexity, i love the philosophy `simple is better` 20:02:32 complexity is good, only chaos can get bad... :) 20:03:07 jyf: somehow, your website and concepts aren't related to forth 20:03:15 jyf: but they are very interesting 20:03:29 jyg: you could contact me via email from my website at http://kathe.in/ 20:03:35 but i want to let normal people use it and contribute on it, i need to reduce the complexity 20:03:36