00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.07.13 00:02:39 --- join: Indecipherable (~Indeciphe@105.252.215.218) joined #forth 00:48:03 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@92.98.207.9) joined #forth 01:17:00 --- quit: spoofer3 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 01:20:49 --- quit: Indecipherable (Quit: used jmIrc) 01:33:27 --- join: epicmonkey_ (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 01:49:51 --- quit: epicmonkey_ (Quit: Leaving) 01:50:09 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 01:55:26 --- quit: Inode (Quit: ) 02:02:20 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 03:04:01 --- join: impomatic_ (~chatzilla@79.60.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 03:40:38 --- quit: Bahman (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:20:39 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 05:23:27 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 05:23:53 --- quit: segher (Client Quit) 05:25:17 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 06:08:00 --- quit: goingretro (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 06:12:47 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:20:22 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~Lawrence@host181-255-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 06:20:24 --- join: Kumul (~nmz@adsl-64-237-236-119.prtc.net) joined #forth 06:52:40 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b020:e5a0:4e05:294c:dd58:5e4d) joined #forth 06:52:45 --- join: goingretro (~kbmaniac@host86-184-169-13.range86-184.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 07:15:05 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 07:17:04 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 07:31:43 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 09:02:59 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 09:16:26 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 09:56:53 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 10:33:31 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 10:54:49 --- quit: spoofer3 (Remote host closed the connection) 10:55:05 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b020:e5a0:4e05:294c:dd58:5e4d) joined #forth 10:55:06 --- join: spoofer3_ (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b020:e5a0:4e05:294c:dd58:5e4d) joined #forth 10:56:12 --- quit: spoofer3_ (Client Quit) 10:59:08 --- quit: Nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 11:02:29 --- join: dys (~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a) joined #forth 11:36:27 --- join: ASau`` (~user@p4FF96727.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 11:39:00 --- quit: ASau` (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 12:17:57 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 12:33:18 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 12:36:52 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 12:59:35 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 13:18:41 --- join: Shark8 (~Shark8@69-20-190-126.static.ida.net) joined #forth 14:37:04 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 15:04:09 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@c-98-202-115-133.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:34:31 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 17:08:23 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 17:26:33 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 17:35:54 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 17:51:46 --- quit: spoofer3 (Remote host closed the connection) 17:52:03 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b020:e5a0:4e05:294c:dd58:5e4d) joined #forth 19:09:45 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Read error: No route to host) 19:10:21 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~Lawrence@host181-255-static.12-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 20:41:24 Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there are compilers that compile to Forth? If so, what languages are/were they for? 20:53:55 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 21:09:54 Well any compiler that compiles to any of the stack CPUs is basically compiling to Forth. 21:10:10 I can think of a Pascal compiler that targeted one of those. 21:10:53 Hm, interesting. Do you remember its name? 21:12:29 ucsd pascal worked that way. the machine was called a p-machine and the code was called p-code 21:13:04 also the reference implementation for iso pascal works that way 21:13:11 i have the code here: https://github.com/tangentstorm/pascal 21:13:34 p4 is the official version, p5 is a revised version that implements the complete iso pascal system 21:13:40 (i didn't write any of this, just collected it) 21:14:38 That's really interesting -- I read about USCD Pascal and the p-code/p-machine. 21:14:45 there is an online book that documents p4 line by line: http://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/pascal/ 21:15:28 From what I understand it was kinda like Java but, according to accounts, a lot faster. 21:15:47 if you'd prefer something smaller to look at, there is: https://github.com/tangentstorm/PL0-Language-Tools/blob/master/plzero.pas 21:16:32 this is pl-0, a small programming language from the author of pascal. he wrote the code as part of his book algorithms + data structures = programs 21:16:46 the rest of that repo implements pl0 in python 21:17:25 in pl0_to_retro.py , i implemented a backend for compiling pl0 to retroforth 21:18:00 Shark8: yeah, the jvm is also a stack machine, but a much more complicated one 21:19:01 Wirth -- Smart guy; I'm reading his Oberon book now. 21:19:10 :) 21:19:39 he broke algorithms+data structures into two books, and eventually ported the code in both to oberon. 21:19:52 both the books are available for free now on his website 21:20:24 "algorithms and data structures" and "compiler construction" 21:20:43 but in compiler construction he switched from a stack machine to a register machine 21:20:56 I find it interesting that Moore and Wirth are both highly respected and accompleshed system-builders who have both really embraced the idea of simplifying things down. // I'll have to see if I have those: I grabbed several PDFs from ETH. 21:21:19 which oberon book are you reading? 21:22:58 i have a start on a full oberon compiler that's going to target retro... https://github.com/nickelsworth/noct 21:23:18 "Project Oberon" (Sorry about the delay, had to go get it.) 21:24:33 Which Oberon? 21:25:33 NOOO!!! Too many interesting things. [Actually, I'm fiddling around with implementing a Forth in Ada, I have a PostScript interpreter on-hold, and I would like to build an Ada 2012 compiler later.] 21:26:16 I think it's using the Oberon-2 language; It's talking about the whole-system though, not just the language. 21:26:59 noct uses the oberon-07 grammar 21:28:01 Ah. Cool. 21:30:22 Noct looks very nifty. 21:31:24 thanks 21:31:45 pretty sure project oberon only covers the original language 21:32:18 oberon-2 adds some extra syntax for object-oriented programming 21:33:03 Ah, cool. 21:33:28 What's the major differece between Oberon-2 and -07? 21:42:17 Nevermind, I matriculated to the Oberon page on wikipedia, 22:14:38 hey I need somebody with a windows or linux machine to help me out- anyone have some time to kill and a willingness to jump through a few hoops to obtain something? 22:14:48 I'm afraid it is only tangentially forth related 22:16:45 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22:28:24 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@86.98.22.86) joined #forth 22:28:43 Elaborate. 22:32:02 well y'see it has to do with java 22:32:13 and goofy backwards-compatibility shenanigans 22:32:24 java class files are forwards-compatible 22:32:40 and with a java compiler you can target an old version of the language and class file format quite easily with a flag 22:32:58 but this is not sufficient to make a valid executable for an old runtime 22:33:21 because you'll still be compiling against whatever modern standard library you have 22:33:42 you can fix this if you have something called rt.jar corresponding to the old runtime you wish to target 22:34:46 but since I'm on OSX, and for many a year apple maintained their own version of the java runtime, it is not possible to obtain an OSX-compatible installer for java 1.5 so that one might extract said rt.jar 22:34:48 r 22:35:41 and sun/oracle, being jerks, package their installers as packed executable thingies so I'd need to actually run the installer to obtain this file 22:35:52 KipIngram: do you now understand my dilemma 22:37:52 the forth tie-in is that if I can do this I can tweak my build files so that my forth VM (the reference implementation of which is written in java) can run on older machines, while currently the only reason it can't is because all my machines have java 1.6 or higher sdks 22:38:00 you may be able to just open the old installers as a zip file 22:43:57 hrm. just tried it. i can open the *.exe file in 7zip but it's not a zip file 22:44:02 You might also be able to get rt.jar for a particular version by searching it and that version number and looking at listing-sites. 22:44:36 I had to do that recently, I think it was 1.4 that I needed. 22:44:48 i think maybe 7-zip can just parse the PE format.. neat 22:45:21 Shark8: I did poke around a bit but I met with little success 22:53:33 'night folks 22:53:45 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 23:01:29 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: Divided by 0) 23:01:35 Sleep: That sounds like a plan. 23:02:08 Tangentstorm, htanks for the interesting refrences. 23:02:16 *thanks 23:02:38 --- part: Shark8 left #forth 23:09:21 np 23:13:59 Reading. 23:15:48 Ok. I've nothing to offer in that quest. :-( 23:40:49 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.07.13