00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.07.12 00:01:11 I'm just really tired of ignorant whack-jobs. 00:01:19 I've got /ignore on hotkey these days. 00:01:21 Imagine. No left in American politics. No SEIU. No Communist party for Obama's father. No Socialists (like Obama). No nationalized health care system. No redistribution programs like progressive income tax. What was I thinking? 00:03:57 --- quit: Bahman (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:04:08 That darn John Locke was an idiot. And a republic instead of a democracy. Who's crazy idea was that anyway? Oh well. I just pay the taxes. 00:05:07 I bet the Federalist Papers were really written by Scientologists or right wing whack jobs. 00:05:48 I wonder why eugenics always comes from the left? 00:07:18 John Dewey, Margaret Sanger, Bertrand Russell. All liked gas chambers. Russell? Hmmm. One of the English math/phiosophy guys. 00:08:53 Anyway, I need a good equatorial mount with plenty of right wing right ascension. 00:09:25 for the CIWS ? 00:09:27 ;-) 00:09:40 The Vixen scope is light. I think the D90 with dual battery extension might be heavier than the scope. 00:11:56 I can't resist baiting guys on the left who think the whole country is right wing. I did instrument design as a resident physicist for years at a university, where I got a lot of practice. Most of the faulty is plenty pink in academia. 00:13:50 I just did some 30 second sky shots last night with a Tamron 60mm Macro I use for products. Fabtastic lens but very frustrating because infinity on the lens is not infinity in focus. 00:13:58 pinkos!! 00:14:26 we don't have any of that kind of political slang here 00:14:38 and I'm so non political it's embarassing 00:15:05 Yes indeed :-) The ones who used to defend the Rosenbergs and other accused spies who gave the H-Bomb to the Russians. 00:16:12 heh 00:16:23 They were not even embarrassed by their duplicity when it was finally released that the army and CIA had full proof of the activities but could not make it public back then without exposing their entire intelligence system. 00:16:58 one countries spy is anothers patriot :) 00:17:25 so your camera mount is criven ? 00:17:29 driven ? 00:17:42 Yes. But they were not Russians. They did it on ideological grounds as they believed in the paradise of true communism. 00:18:17 No, I get little short lines but I love seeing all those stars and their colors from such a short exposure. 00:18:52 a good way to realise the sky is moving 00:18:53 And I pick up lots of satellites. 00:19:24 It would be fun to have a spinning shutter to beak up the sat paths and calculate orbits. 00:20:47 I see the scientist in you 00:21:29 i pay focus on those ancient machine 00:21:36 like water powered machine 00:21:40 I wonder if I can fir the D90 to this http://www.ebay.com/itm/390262601204?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 00:22:31 Looks nice but I can't find anyone who has used one. 00:22:39 pricey 00:22:54 is lightness important ? 00:23:30 Yes, it keeps mounting costs down. Not really pricey if the glass is good. 00:24:35 A Vixen 103mm diameter ED type is the lower end of quality achromats and they are I think abotu $1400 to $1800. 00:24:42 regnirps: you like climbing mountain? 00:25:12 I used to climb. My brother is head of rescue operations in the Grand Teton national park. 00:25:50 Have you heard of Bibler Tents? 00:26:09 nope i just found that i am a survivor recently 00:27:39 Yes? Did you have to do some climbing? 00:27:56 Or "down climbing", which is harder. 00:29:00 Todd Bibler was my childhood friend and climbing partner. Best tents in the world. And we both did work for MSR - Mountain Safety Research. http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/tents-and-bivys?gclid=CMPMsOm2qbgCFcU5Qgodn3cAXg 00:29:37 nope, i dont have to 00:29:40 But that was a long time ago. The new shoes and other equipment let people scramble over rocks like monkeys now. 00:29:50 but our equipment are closed to climbing's 00:30:05 both us need fire maker :] 00:30:20 water collector and other stuff 00:30:34 Yes. Survival gear. 00:31:17 but i am a long term survivor, i worry about the chinese economy's collapse 00:31:20 Water, food, shelter, heat. 00:31:32 so i am focus on self producing 00:31:40 Ah, and you should. The Party is playing fast and loose with the yuan. 00:32:30 They hold the value of the yuan low to keep low prices for foriegn manufacturers. 00:32:56 regnirps: yes, as RMB to USD's exchange rate become so small, many factories lose their orders from your western countries 00:33:02 If the market was free, it would be about 3 RMB to the dollar. 00:33:28 Mayeb evey 2RMB. 00:33:33 regnirps: if that's 3 RMB to a dollar, i would be happy just a moment 00:33:34 maybe even 00:33:49 because now i can afford many eletronic devices 00:34:03 But you also have a very inflated housing market. 00:34:13 and then i would be sad for long time, because our salary would be too high to our foreign boss 00:34:20 we might be fired 00:35:19 i ear 14k RMB a month, if the rate turn to 3 or 2, that would be terrible to our boss :[ 00:35:46 Bank of China make big loans to family members of party officials. They build big multi-buiding condos with contractors who are other family members. No one buys and they stay empty. Loans go unpaid and Bank of China is instructed to forget about it. 00:36:53 This is happening all over China. Very dangerous for the economy. 00:37:15 regnirps: yes , i am glad you also have that feeling 00:37:20 Have you seen the blocks and blocks of empty buildings? 00:37:28 when i talk to a french, he is going to migrate to china :[ 00:37:33 Like Solar City outside Guangzhou. 00:38:00 regnirps: i saw so many ghost building in hangzhou when i was in colleges 00:38:25 * dys cringes in the wake of thirteen screenfuls of offtopic-madness 00:38:35 :-) 00:38:42 --- join: Indecipherable (~Indeciphe@41.13.146.90) joined #forth 00:39:30 regnirps: but you also have that dangerous too 00:39:56 although many factories return to us, it didnt made much more jobs 00:40:36 Yes, it is crazy here. Government spending is insane. And they just print money (really they sell bonds or make loans) until the stock market goes up. 00:41:06 Then they say "Look how great things are". 00:41:09 regnirps: that's why i gave my ideas here one day 00:41:41 i think money need to be guantee by some materials or food 00:41:54 not like today, its just papers 00:42:37 In the US it was backed by gold. But not anymore. 00:42:52 yes from 1970s 00:43:28 everyone should make bitcoins their official state currency 00:43:34 Really the 1930's. They collected all gold coins. 00:44:06 same thing happened in china, KMT collected all silver coins 00:44:15 at 1930s 00:44:46 But you are right. 100 years ago one ounce of gold would buy a fine men's suit of clothes. 00:45:05 Today an ounce of gold will buy a fine men's suit of clothes. 00:45:27 that's the price of pearce time 00:45:40 It was $20 then and is $1600 now. But it has the same value. 00:45:52 if you are in famine, gold couldnt save you 00:46:13 and the price of food would rise to a very high level 00:46:47 Yes, but that involves the ethics of emergencies, which fall outside normal behavior. 00:47:29 regnirps: i have a idea that insurance company should promise service and food to people not only money 00:48:24 Interesting idea. Time to hit the hay. Nice chatting everyone. Next time, Forth! 00:48:40 is AFK 00:53:16 nighto regnirps ! 01:00:32 As long as the insurance money you get rises in proportion to inflation, it should suffice 01:01:27 Though yeah, this won't work with sudden economic collapses and whatnot 01:15:58 the money return back wont promise anything 01:16:36 money's value is floating and change too much 01:16:45 while food and other serivce's value wont 01:17:24 and with time went by, the costs of producing these food and service would reduced 01:17:38 that's more reliable 01:18:57 --- quit: Indecipherable (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 01:59:32 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 02:02:56 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 02:05:29 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 02:07:18 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 02:07:32 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 02:11:55 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 02:12:31 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 02:36:17 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~Lawrence@95.235.186.104) joined #forth 03:18:09 --- join: epicmonkey_ (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 03:18:35 --- quit: yiyus (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 03:18:36 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 03:19:12 --- join: yiyus (1242712427@je.je.je) joined #forth 03:59:05 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 05:47:49 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 05:48:20 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05:48:38 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 05:49:50 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 05:52:51 is there a word like rot but "in the other direction" ? 05:53:55 C-Keen: Growth? 05:56:09 hahahah 06:11:59 : -rot rot rot ; 06:14:25 that's what I have currently, I was afraid I am missing something obvious 06:23:03 Oh, you meant the rot word in Forth. My bad. 06:49:50 C-Keen this might be faster : -ROT SWAP >R SWAP R> ; 06:50:01 I've also seen it called ah I always forget about the return stack! 06:59:36 Probably for the best. Only use it when you really need it. 07:01:17 --- join: Kumul (~nmz@adsl-64-237-235-183.prtc.net) joined #forth 07:01:32 thank you! 07:03:31 Hmmm. 07:04:07 Rot does three reads and three writes. So two do six and six. 07:05:40 Swap does two and two, and both >r and r> do one and one. So that version does six and six also, and had three word calls instead of two. 07:06:01 My money would be on rot rot. 07:06:24 My money would be on the one that benchmarks better. 07:06:34 But that's just me. I'm more on the side of Archimedes than Plato. 07:06:40 I wouldn't define -rot though. I'd just use rot rot inline. 07:06:49 :-) 07:07:14 Good point. I meant my guess would be that root root would benchmark better. 07:07:25 Just a guess, though. 07:08:01 And if it were really performance important I'd am 07:08:15 Asm it. 07:08:36 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 07:09:26 KipIngram: I'd guess they were sufficiently similar in performance as to make no discernible difference personally. 07:09:40 But I'd use rot rot because intent is clearer. 07:09:47 Yes, most likely. 07:10:09 I stuck to rot rot in my word, since it's really small. I was just wondering whether there's an existing word I'd had missed 07:10:39 * ttmrichter still can't believe only one person thought my "growth" gaffe was funny. 07:11:33 Don't you realize that the whole business of modern software is to make it steadily hard to discern intent? Just compare modern make to old make or grub 2 to legacy grub. :-) 07:11:54 Or modern "Unix inspired" systems to actual Unix. 07:13:19 I suppose the newer stuff is "simpler" - but apparently on done esoteric way that requires you to be an expert / specialist to grasp. 07:13:35 "In some" esoteric... 07:14:17 The new stuff is much harder to just wade into and understand without a lot of background prep. 07:18:01 It's not actually simpler either. 07:18:12 The problem is that Unix has become a so-called Big Ball of Mud. 07:18:37 A LOT of people have added to it; people with varying levels of competence and varying levels of that indefinable "taste" that makes or breaks a system. 07:19:11 The guys that have their arms around it take pleasure in paying themselves on the back for their cleverness. 07:19:47 Part of the problem also is that it's always more fun to make new stuff than it is to make existing stuff work better. 07:19:58 This is why Linux has about 15 different conflicting audio systems, none of them complete. 07:20:41 Yes. 07:21:07 This is the systems programming equivalent of the Lisp Curse. 07:21:46 http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html 07:22:05 Truly great products may be worked on by many, but they are controlled by one person with real vision. 07:22:09 Read that, especially the link to the Bipolar Lisp Programmer essay. 07:22:22 See if you can't see the parallels in what happened to Unix. 07:23:02 Cool. I have a meeting shortly, though. Will read later. 07:38:17 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@92.98.207.9) joined #forth 07:41:50 --- join: spoofer3_ (~spoofer3@235.sub-70-199-133.myvzw.com) joined #forth 07:44:12 --- quit: spoofer3 (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:04:07 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 08:06:49 --- quit: spoofer3_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08:11:45 --- quit: sirdancealot (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:12:59 --- join: Tod-Work (~thansmann@50-202-143-210-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 08:17:15 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 08:23:34 --- join: john_metcalf (~john_metc@79.60.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 08:35:10 --- quit: bjorkintosh (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 09:25:35 --- join: sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) joined #forth 09:31:55 --- quit: tathi (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 09:39:47 --- join: tathi (~josh@dsl-216-227-92-249.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 09:39:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tathi 09:51:21 --- quit: itsy (*.net *.split) 09:51:22 --- quit: tangentstorm (*.net *.split) 09:56:29 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 09:57:29 --- join: ncv (~quassel@79.113.85.96) joined #forth 09:57:29 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 09:57:29 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 10:02:33 --- quit: epicmonkey_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 10:02:34 --- join: yiyus_ (1242712427@je.je.je) joined #forth 10:04:45 --- quit: yiyus (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 10:04:46 --- quit: nighty-_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 10:06:33 --- join: nighty-_ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 10:13:45 --- quit: sirdancealot (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 10:32:14 --- join: sirdancealot (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) joined #forth 11:10:47 --- join: epicmonkey_ (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 11:36:08 --- join: ASau` (~user@p5797EE49.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 11:39:08 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:55:07 --- quit: dys (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 11:55:24 --- join: dys (~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a) joined #forth 11:55:51 --- quit: dys (Remote host closed the connection) 12:28:20 --- join: itsy (~digital_w@79.60.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 13:16:16 --- quit: epicmonkey_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 13:42:04 --- join: dys (~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a) joined #forth 14:29:14 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 14:54:37 OK. There is agvuy who will get on the channel some time who needs to set up to compile application code for the FS linux on 6410. 14:54:50 Ryan Fernandez. 14:55:09 Do you have anything from the Wiki that would be a tutorial? 14:57:57 --- join: barglfargl (~barglfarg@c-67-174-169-119.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:16:51 --- quit: Tod-Work (Quit: Leaving) 15:20:19 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:25:29 --- quit: barglfargl (Quit: leaving) 15:25:58 --- part: itsy left #forth 15:29:41 --- quit: Kumul (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 15:30:26 --- quit: Xark (Changing host) 15:30:26 --- join: Xark (~Xark@unaffiliated/xark) joined #forth 15:43:09 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 16:13:34 --- join: Kumul (~nmz@adsl-64-237-235-55.prtc.net) joined #forth 16:14:33 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 16:33:20 --- quit: ARMWorksiMac1 (Quit: ARMWorksiMac1) 16:59:44 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: leaving) 17:03:23 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 17:04:24 --- quit: nighty- (Client Quit) 17:05:09 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 17:12:16 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: leaving) 17:15:49 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 17:45:05 --- join: barglfargl (~barglfarg@67.174.169.119) joined #forth 17:49:30 --- quit: barglfargl (Client Quit) 18:07:07 --- quit: nighty-_ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 18:28:05 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 18:30:10 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 18:44:24 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 18:44:42 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 19:08:15 --- quit: segher (Ping timeout: 241 seconds) 19:18:17 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b020:e5a0:4e05:294c:dd58:5e4d) joined #forth 19:30:00 --- join: impomatic (~john_metc@79.60.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 19:30:00 --- quit: john_metcalf (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:31:10 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 19:35:11 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Quit: leaving) 19:40:27 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 20:34:53 --- join: azathoth99 (~g@cpe-75-83-12-120.socal.res.rr.com) joined #forth 20:34:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +b *!*@*.socal.res.rr.com 20:34:53 --- kick: azathoth99 was kicked by ChanServ (Banned: Gavino-ban-evasion) 20:42:23 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 20:54:45 --- quit: Anarch (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 20:55:17 --- join: Anarch (~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 22:41:59 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: Divided by 0) 23:00:04 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 23:24:08 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.07.12