00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.07.08 00:14:59 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 00:40:30 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 00:42:39 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 00:57:22 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 00:57:52 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 01:26:19 i just talk about forth parser with zed shaw on twitter 01:26:37 his impl only treat space tab and cr as delimitter 01:27:36 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 01:37:42 --- nick: c00kiemon5ter -> Guest73614 01:38:04 --- quit: Guest73614 (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 01:39:03 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 01:44:40 yunfan: That's pretty traditional. Although comments too. 01:48:38 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 01:49:30 ttmrichter: but isnt dynamic parse is an identify features of forth? 01:51:24 Yeah. You can replace the parser any time you like. :) 01:52:39 but he show me the section of dpan94 01:52:56 and i told him who care ANSForth :] 01:53:00 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 01:56:22 Yeah, ANS is kind of ... missing the point. 01:58:01 Indeed. 01:58:47 There's ideas to rip off from ANS, but I certainly won't ever be committing to it. 01:59:16 Yeah. 01:59:21 a ISO standard ? 01:59:32 If I'm going to follow any standard (not that I will) I'd go with Forth-83. 02:00:20 Forth is a grassroots kind of thing. The very idea of standardizing it is contrary to its spirit. 02:00:40 Ignoring that aspect, I have a bigger objection to it. 02:00:59 Forth is a programming style intended for the quirky, wonderful low-level world of direct hardware access. 02:01:09 Oh yes. 02:01:15 Absolutely. 02:01:16 You *CAN'T* make a meaningful standard for it because hardware is just so fucking inconsistent. 02:01:57 And that drives computer science types mad. 02:02:04 yes like a high level asm framework? 02:02:27 I kind of view it as a massive macro assembler that promotes a certain style. 02:03:52 but i dont think you would like see `dup` acts like `lit` 02:04:18 need a minimal core standard to make sure people wont made misunderstand word name 02:05:05 That does make. But not an attempt at a full formal standard. 02:05:14 Make sense 02:05:53 But the "standard" you're talking about hardly needs writing down. 02:06:06 i dont like ANSForth 02:06:07 It's just convention. 02:06:11 its too big for me 02:06:23 I ignore it. 02:07:09 Just like Highlander II. 02:07:12 :-) 02:07:45 THERE WAS NO HIGHLANDER MOVIE PAST HIGHLANDER! YOU'RE A LYING LIAR LIKE THE PEOPLE WHO SAID THERE WERE STAR WARS MOVIES PAST THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK! 02:07:59 Thank you. 02:08:50 I see we're in agreement here. 02:09:04 (And the people who said "Star Wars" was named "Episode IV". It wasn't. Fucking liars.) 02:09:16 hmm need to bought some equipments for my EDC 02:10:55 : Highlander-Legend Highlander ; 02:14:23 Back to your point, I couldn't agree more. Forth is meant to be shaped by the hardware is running on, and to shape that hardware. The whole point is for the hardware and software design to become a unified process. 02:14:49 http://www.forthos.org/ this looks neat 02:15:53 i have run it on qemu 02:15:59 hope it has a vga mode 02:16:01 for playing 02:17:05 Hmmm. It does look like it's at least worth booting. 02:17:17 I've played with it for a bit of fun. 02:17:39 It's lacking a lot in documentation and I just don't have the time to pick through it by hand. I'll probably be cribbing its file system, though. 02:17:54 Does it have any networking capability? 02:18:01 No. 02:18:25 That sucks. 02:18:31 yes 02:18:38 network is a basic 02:19:20 I might be interested in using it to program up a gnupg messaging box. 02:19:48 Oh, it does have networking? I must have missed it. 02:19:56 An appliance with known software from the metal up. 02:20:35 I *SHOULD* know what gnupg is, but I can't place it. 02:20:47 what's the problem of gnupg? 02:20:53 Open source Pretty good Privacy. 02:21:32 No problem with it - problem with having to trust the os. 02:21:39 Oh, right. 02:22:31 if you cant trust the network 02:24:03 You only have to trust the layers of software that handle your clear text. So minimize this layers. In Linux ow Windows that's the whole damn operating system. 02:24:22 That's a lot to trust. So many ways to get burned. 02:25:14 You've hit upon why I've come back around to wanting to do embedded systems. 02:25:15 KipIngram: if your network refuse to deliver your packages to the target peer :] like us in china 02:25:33 Yes, me too. 02:25:33 yunfan: That's not a security breach, though. That's just an annoyance. 02:26:10 There's a certain purity to writing EVERY LINE OF CODE (or at least vetting every line) personally. 02:26:14 You can't do that on a modern system. 02:26:14 yunfan: that's a separate issue. 02:26:18 You can on an embedded one. 02:26:41 ttmrichter: yes, exactly. 02:27:54 And also in designing nuance of the processor, gate level up. 02:28:03 It's all the same. 02:29:49 I'll get to that, but I also have a scrap netbook I'll almost certainly try that link above out on. 02:30:32 i know there's a website told you build a morden computer from sand :] 02:30:44 Yeah, that processor thing still has me overwhelmed. It's been too many years since the course where I made a 4-bit computer in TTL and the tooling around FPGAs is shambolic. :) 02:31:12 got it to boot in virtualbox 02:31:14 You'll get there. I'll help. 02:36:18 That forthos thing looks like a good vehicle for starting the development of higher software layers for later deployment on custom hardware. 02:38:29 it booted in virtualbox but freezes up every time i try to do anything with the virtual hard drive... 02:38:50 not sure how to configure grub for it 02:39:00 but it looks like a decent little forth 02:39:02 tangentstorm: I had it working in VBox once, but that was a long time ago. 02:44:11 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 02:49:03 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~Lawrence@host215-178-dynamic.55-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 02:55:08 I will try it out this morning on hardware. 02:55:42 Driving in to work now. 03:01:35 KipIngram: Whyfore you not in ##embedded? 04:13:59 --- quit: jevin (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 04:16:24 --- join: jevin (~jevin@72.12.217.220) joined #forth 04:20:30 --- join: itsy (~digital_w@46.208.115.220) joined #forth 05:52:30 --- quit: beretta (Quit: Leaving) 05:54:38 I just gotten around to it. I will drop in. 05:57:06 Hmmm. I tried ##embedded and #embedded and found nothing. Something must be amiss. 05:58:51 Are you connected to multiple networks and trying to join right ##embedded ? 06:26:23 I specified freenode. 06:26:59 Hey, the forthos CD booted my netbook. Trying to get it installed to disk now. 06:52:23 Weird. It's definitely ##embedded in FreeNode. 06:54:51 How many people are in there now? 06:55:03 Seven. 06:56:11 Several of us went over there to avoid offending a certain faction (of one) that seeks out offense for the sake of being offended. :) 06:56:51 Oh, now it works... 06:57:08 You mean from here? 06:58:22 Yes. :) Besides we weren't talking about Forth in specific, just something that was going to have a Forth embedded into it, so... 07:06:43 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 07:26:17 --- join: spoofer3_ (~spoofer3@1.sub-70-199-131.myvzw.com) joined #forth 07:26:18 --- quit: spoofer3 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 07:44:47 --- quit: spoofer3_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 08:21:48 --- join: barglfargl (~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 08:29:14 --- join: Kumul (~nmz@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:30:58 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 08:42:12 --- join: Tod-Work (~thansmann@50-202-143-210-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 08:46:14 --- quit: barglfargl (Quit: Leaving) 09:08:44 --- join: Tod-Work_ (~thansmann@50-202-143-210-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 09:12:24 --- join: barglfargl (~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 09:12:29 --- quit: Tod-Work (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09:13:03 --- nick: Tod-Work_ -> Tod-Work 09:23:49 --- quit: barglfargl (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09:54:42 --- join: barglfargl (~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 10:11:43 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 10:29:22 --- join: ncv (~quassel@79.113.85.96) joined #forth 10:29:22 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 10:29:22 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 10:56:24 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 10:57:57 --- nick: Nisstyre-laptop -> Nisstyre 11:01:39 --- quit: barglfargl (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:01:49 --- join: barglfargl (~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 11:05:01 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:22:07 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:31:55 --- quit: barglfargl (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:35:47 --- join: ASau` (~user@p5797E401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 11:38:45 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:40:57 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:41:38 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 11:42:30 Hey guys, I booted forthos from the hard drive using the grub from the cd. But I haven't managed a bout using the hard drive grub. 11:44:40 Amy thoughts? 11:44:44 Any 11:45:47 --- join: cp (~cp@talula.plus.com) joined #forth 11:47:30 --- quit: Nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 11:57:56 --- quit: dessos (Quit: leaving) 12:08:06 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 12:10:35 --- join: barglfargl (~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 12:16:30 --- quit: cp (Read error: Operation timed out) 12:17:13 --- join: dessos (~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:31:29 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 12:45:30 --- quit: barglfargl (Quit: Leaving) 12:51:19 yeah that's where i got stuck too 12:51:28 (though i used a virtual machine) 12:52:04 it has a bunch of grub commands in the docs, KipIngram ... but i didn't understand them 12:52:13 or try them :/ 13:06:17 Ok. I reverted Ubuntu from grub 2 to legacy grub, and now I have a great menu that default boots to forthos and lets me opt for Linux if I want. Very cool. 13:07:22 But forthos is supposed to recognize the partition it's in and base the block system there. Don't have that working yet. 13:07:33 Progress though. 13:07:59 Power button to Forth command line in seven seconds flat. :-) 13:22:49 If a partition has type 158 (9e) then forthos is supposed to set an offset variable to the start of that partition. Can't get that too work. 13:28:18 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 13:32:24 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 13:32:43 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 13:50:35 I wonder if the problem is that forthos only works with ide drives. Grub is doing the loading the boot image. Maybe that image doesn't know how to talk to my drive. 13:51:22 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 13:55:36 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 14:13:31 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 14:15:06 --- join: john_metcalf (~john_metc@46.208.115.220) joined #forth 14:24:57 --- join: mikaelo (kvirc@81.3.170.18) joined #forth 14:43:32 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 15:04:04 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 15:05:54 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@gertm.eu) joined #forth 15:07:06 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 15:07:23 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:23:12 Fixed it. 15:23:57 There was a bios setting to switch the drive controller to ide mode. To work now. 15:29:28 what are you looking to do with it, KipIngram ? 15:33:57 Preliminary software development that I will eventual port pays off to a custom "me built" platform. Especially interested in gnupg style encryption. 15:42:02 Port parts of... 15:46:45 --- join: barglfargl (~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com) joined #forth 15:48:40 --- quit: Tod-Work (Quit: Leaving) 16:00:22 --- quit: barglfargl (Quit: Leaving) 16:12:59 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 16:16:00 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 16:16:19 --- quit: segher (Remote host closed the connection) 16:17:54 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 17:53:16 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b028:f241:12c0:6d1:667a:21d3) joined #forth 17:59:28 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 18:01:33 --- quit: spoofer3 (Remote host closed the connection) 18:01:47 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b028:f241:12c0:6d1:667a:21d3) joined #forth 18:47:05 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 18:50:20 --- join: ASau (~user@p5797E401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 19:32:07 --- quit: spoofer3 (Remote host closed the connection) 19:58:44 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20:38:59 --- nick: yunfan -> NaoCanRen 21:08:42 --- join: spoofer3 (~spoofer3@2600:100f:b028:f241:12c0:6d1:667a:21d3) joined #forth 21:55:54 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: Divided by 0) 23:14:38 --- nick: NaoCanRen -> yunfan 23:15:06 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@86.98.22.86) joined #forth 23:27:28 --- join: ErhardtMundt (~Lawrence@host219-58-dynamic.245-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 23:32:28 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.07.08