00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.06.18 00:39:29 --- quit: tp (Remote host closed the connection) 00:41:39 --- quit: overdamped (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 00:53:17 --- join: tp (~tp@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 01:07:33 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 01:15:59 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108.218.151.22) joined #forth 01:30:17 --- join: cfjdet (~androirc@pD9E2532C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 02:03:56 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 02:07:43 --- quit: cfjdet (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 02:10:18 --- join: cfjdet (~androirc@pD9E2532C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 02:11:51 KipIngram: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1gjp2y/how_fpgas_work_and_why_youll_buy_one/ 02:12:03 Comic timing given an earlier conversation. :) 02:12:11 ttmrichter: i opened that page this morning 02:12:22 but not checked yet 02:12:44 also this page http://justindunham.net/2013/06/the-1-bit-interface/ 02:18:06 ttmrichter: seems gas accept immediate using the # prefix form 02:29:30 ttmrichter: i got what's the problem of my asm code, i ignored those [ and ] in the instruction book 02:29:46 ttmrichter: for str i need to write str r0, [r1, #0x00] 02:37:34 Oh, you were trying indirect addressing. 02:39:00 and i got just one error after changing the syntax 02:39:16 http://paste.ubuntu.com/5776595/ 02:39:31 gas tell me 0x12 is too big as an immediate 02:46:09 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:09:23 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 03:22:26 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 03:26:39 "Does ANS Forth have Forth-nature?" "无。" 03:27:09 you tell us ttmrichter-san ? 03:27:35 I was just having a conversation with someone about Forth. 03:27:42 aha 03:27:50 "There's a certain Chan/Zen-like slippery quality to what is or is not Forth." 03:27:58 a philosophical one by the sound ? 03:28:01 "And the more you try to force something to be "true Forth" the less like true Forth it is." 03:28:09 hahah 03:28:14 "Forth is like cool. If you're trying, you're not there." 03:28:20 use the Forth Luke... THE FORTH!!! 03:28:53 I like that about forth 03:29:02 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.50.50.204) joined #forth 03:29:21 I *love* "Thinking forth" 03:29:36 only 1/3 thru it tho 03:29:43 Thinking Forth is in a short list of programming books that have changed my thinking about computation. 03:29:54 in what way ? 03:30:01 In that list also goes The Art of Prolog and Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs. 03:30:02 in a major way ? 03:30:08 In a very major way, yes. 03:30:10 wow 03:30:38 well, your thinking is definitely on the pointy end of sharp (imho) 03:31:26 Nah, I'm actually quite a dullard. 03:31:43 I usually have a big grin reading "Thinking forth" 03:31:44 My maths are weak (very weak). I keep up enough maths to barely apply them to my programming. 03:31:58 yeah and I'm a duck, 'quack quack' 03:31:59 And I'm always lagging behind in the relevant maths (like type theory, for example). 03:32:19 You want some scary-smart people, drop by ##prolog and talk to, say, ski. 03:32:26 Or #mercury and talk to Boney. 03:32:33 nottwo, enough smart people here 03:33:46 I'm just like chewing gum on the street to people like that ... I just slow them down as they race by 03:33:51 OK, you're thinking that I'm the pointy end of sharp. 03:33:57 you are 03:33:59 And I'm thinking I'm a dullard compared to the two guys I named. :) 03:34:05 That should scare you. :D 03:34:07 I'm old enough to know 03:34:07 (It does me!) 03:34:09 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-61-90-14-214.revip.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 03:34:11 iw does 03:34:14 it does 03:34:41 Rather than being sharp, I'm mostly acidic. 03:34:46 I'm a realist, I'm smarter than some, and less smart than others, I wish I was smarter, but we work with what we have 03:34:50 The pain is the same when I prod you, but the mechanism is different. :) 03:34:57 Bingo! 03:34:59 That's my stance. 03:35:03 haha, you're just a acid flavor of sharp is all 03:35:12 Here's an example of acid: http://ttmrichter.postagon.com/8wccjc9pg 03:35:24 I've seen some of yours already 03:35:37 Oh, right. You read some of my bitter rants. :D 03:35:50 I think my favourite for sheer bile-spewing was the "facekini" rant. 03:36:47 yeah, loved it 03:37:45 on the contrary, I don't think you're a scary acid tipped 'freddy kruger', I think you're just a bored scalpal 03:38:32 I think some dullards offend your sharpness so much, you have to rant or you'll shatter 03:38:37 Nah. I'm just an etching bath. 03:39:17 you definitely have a wide array of career options 03:46:40 Javapocalypse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3418SeWZfQ 03:46:45 it's pretty funny 04:04:52 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 04:14:16 --- join: robotustra (~robotustr@cable-11.246.173-140.electronicbox.net) joined #forth 04:19:51 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 05:20:05 --- join: overdamped (~overdampe@unaffiliated/overdamped) joined #forth 05:31:05 --- quit: cfjdet (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05:55:58 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.50.50.204) joined #forth 06:01:10 --- quit: overdamped (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 06:42:29 --- quit: Bahman (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:57:39 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 07:10:39 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 07:47:48 tp: what's the differences between system memory and sram? 07:47:52 --- join: dto 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[Thu Apr 26 19:32:21 2012] 13:39:59 --- names: list (clog JDat Bahman ASau jimt dys ncv robotustra mtm DocPlatypus Tod-Work proteusguy RodgerTheGreat nighty^ tangentstorm tp KipIngram ErhardtMundt kulp segher Backer rixard jyf bjorkintosh jevin c00kiemon5ter goingretro sirdancealot djinni_ TodPunk dessos Inode +tathi ttmrichter karswell newcup malyn dzho Anarch nighty- rprimus nottwo bluekelp yiyus yunfan Adeon) 14:11:19 --- quit: clog (^C) 14:11:19 --- log: stopped forth/13.06.18 14:11:37 --- log: started forth/13.06.18 14:11:37 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 14:11:37 --- topic: 'Forth Programming | logged by clog at http://bit.ly/91toWN | links: qr.net/gforth isforth.com forthfreak.net qr.net/ans_standard | Buy forth chips from www.greenarraychips.com' 14:11:37 --- topic: set by foucist!~foucist@ps14150.dreamhost.com on [Thu Apr 26 19:32:21 2012] 14:11:38 --- names: list (clog Bahman ASau jimt dys ncv robotustra mtm DocPlatypus Tod-Work RodgerTheGreat nighty^ tangentstorm tp KipIngram ErhardtMundt kulp segher Backer rixard jyf bjorkintosh jevin c00kiemon5ter goingretro sirdancealot djinni_ TodPunk dessos Inode +tathi ttmrichter karswell newcup malyn dzho Anarch nighty- rprimus nottwo bluekelp yiyus Adeon yunfan) 14:30:16 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 14:42:08 --- join: le_canard (cc1048d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.16.72.216) joined #forth 14:42:52 --- quit: le_canard (Quit: Page closed) 14:45:28 --- join: itsy (~digital_w@208.222.125.91.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 15:43:44 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 16:11:44 --- quit: mtm (Quit: Leaving...) 16:21:38 --- quit: Tod-Work (Quit: Leaving) 16:27:44 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 16:39:43 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 16:41:20 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 16:41:52 --- quit: segher (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:42:15 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 17:20:14 --- quit: tp (Remote host closed the connection) 17:52:43 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 17:57:36 --- join: beretta (~beretta@cpe-107-8-120-203.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #forth 17:59:46 Just got my wikireader today! 18:03:39 huh... is it programmable? 18:04:56 yup... hardware and software open source too. 18:05:28 it runs on a ANSI forth. (which I'm soon to replace with my own) 18:05:42 I 18:05:43 I 18:05:49 rrrrr... keyboards! 18:06:06 I'm impressed with it's touchscreen too 18:07:34 huh!! nice :) 18:08:24 I perused the source and it's kinda uckky, but what the heck. 18:08:50 It might just be my touchscreen/display for my rpi :) 18:12:03 it looks cool... maybe when i start making a living here i'll pick one up :) 18:13:03 I'm pretty sure I can fit my forth engine into it's flash. 18:13:09 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-61-90-14-214.revip.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 18:13:50 --- join: tp|2 (~tp@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 18:14:05 it was about 15 bucks shipped (US) from amazon 18:15:29 oh is that all?! huh! 18:16:12 basically, its a flop of a device. I'm guessing they are way over-stocked. 18:16:19 Weird. Amazon says the list price was $99 and they're selling it for $11.99 18:17:07 how do you program it? 18:17:51 looks like it builds it's own port of gcc (linux) 18:18:15 and I'm assuming the Forth builds itself (mostly) 18:19:05 and for some reason it has a digital thermometer build in. 18:19:50 --- nick: tp|2 -> tp 18:22:05 hi guys, I came in late, you talking about the wikithing ? 18:22:33 yeah beretta just got one and i didn't know what it was 18:22:57 aha, looks like a fun toy for 11.99 18:23:02 RodgerTheGreat told me about it last week. 18:23:07 I recall 18:23:19 shame it was a flop, being oss 18:23:30 but then, its a cheap toy now 18:23:57 looks like openmoko make another cool flop too: freerunner ... it's a cell phone. 18:23:57 all those kinds of gadgets cant compete with smartphone apps I guess 18:24:24 yes, one of the guys in our Linux User Group actually has a OpemMoko 18:24:31 yeah... it's hard for me to even justify the 11.99 when i have a tablet and two android phones here. 18:24:33 a forth powered cell would be interesting. 18:24:43 ive seen it, it wasnt too bad, but very dated now 18:24:51 not to mention an old palm pilot :) 18:24:59 tangentstorm: the Vx ! 18:25:01 true... 18:25:11 I should just learn quartus forth. 18:25:22 i think i even downloaded it years ago but had no idea what it was 18:25:37 cant beat a single chip Forth I rekon 18:25:43 tp: no i have a tungsten 18:25:51 as a backpacker who traversed the AT last year... it would have been cool to have a lower power (and cheap/interchangable) AAA batteries to boot. 18:26:09 tangentstorm: aha, my Vx is sealed 18:26:13 i think i may have a palm 3 somewhere too but i may have given it away 18:26:35 but I have a couple of pilots that use AAA batteries 18:26:46 having a cell signal was rear too. 18:27:13 I used them for barcode scanners as they came with laser barcode scanners, being made by symbol 18:27:40 but palm is so yesterday really 18:27:44 and so .... dead 18:28:09 yeah... the wikireader is very similar in capabilities to the palm 18:28:12 the second android phone i got was on sale for $49 with no contract... i didn't even want phone service, just wanted a tiny computer 18:28:19 :) 18:28:37 i made up a little Forth pcb a couple of weeks ago, it runs from a Android Tablet USB, its perfect for playing around with 18:28:52 tp: nice! 18:29:14 a pcb? machine forth? 18:29:16 its definitely the simplest Forth gadget ive ever used 18:29:25 FlashForth on a PIC 18:29:36 oh yeah... nice. 18:29:43 and a really cool Android Term emulator 18:29:46 yeah the Freerunner was perhaps their better known flop 18:30:02 I really wanted one, too 18:30:09 flop = cheap 18:30:17 I may have to settle for an Android phone... but it's like drinking cheap store soda that tastes more like Pepsi when you really wanted a Coke 18:31:35 here is the Android terminal im using 18:31:38 http://www.portertech.org/test/forth-board-android-term.jpg 18:31:47 its really nice 18:32:19 DocPlatypus: should be lots of alternatives to Androis out soon 18:32:50 what's with the spurious backticks in that pic? 18:32:57 Tizen is Meego further developed, Firefox OS, etc 18:33:22 DocPlatypus: the Flashforth 'words' output is a bit dodgy 18:33:33 it needs to be altered 18:33:35 ah 18:33:50 someone here has done that, substituded spaces for tabs I believe 18:34:09 its not the terminal I think 18:34:44 and here is the board, just my very rough prototype 18:35:01 http://www.portertech.org/test/forth-board.jpg 18:35:28 im working on a nice pcb for it as my spare time allows, it will all be gpl, so anyone can make one up 18:36:00 be the size of a usb stick 19:13:57 oop sco sue ibm again 19:14:45 yeah, but IBM will just eat them alive with their 'Nasgul' lawyers 19:15:02 sco are so dead 19:16:28 and amd provide arm chip for server now 19:16:52 --- quit: itsy (Quit: itsy) 19:25:12 ttmrichter: http://www.ibtimes.com/400-year-old-skeleton-found-backyard-canadian-couple-charged-5000-unearthing-it-1309339 19:26:00 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:36:25 tp: I'll chat with you when I get a Forth processor made. You can be my official designer for the USB version. :) 19:42:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-220-194.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 19:46:00 ttmrichter: it will be my pleasure 19:47:04 * ttmrichter is thinking of a tiny FPGA with a stripped-down Forth core paired with a USB→USART bridge so that a terminal on the PC can interact with it. 19:47:33 Most of the actual source code would be on the PC and would be cross-compiled to the Forth core. 19:49:16 a tetheed Forth ? 19:50:03 make it GPL'd and I'll do a PCB for it for Free under the GPL 19:52:19 I'll even make a small batch and we can give them away via some popular hack type website ? 19:53:11 I plan on doing just that with maybe 50x FlashForth units 19:57:02 --- join: tp_ (~tp@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 19:57:44 bak, having usb problems on tp 20:03:30 tp_: I don't do GPL. I do WTFPL. 20:23:00 --- quit: tp (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 20:28:44 i used to choose bsd for my small repo 20:28:50 but now WTFPL 20:31:04 Well for me WTFPL is just practicality. 20:31:20 What are the odds I'll be able to even AFFORD a lawsuit against a GPL infringer? 20:31:48 Might as well face reality and state openly that people are going to do what the fuck they want no matter what the license, so, WTFPL. 20:50:54 --- quit: jimt (*.net *.split) 20:51:38 --- join: mtm (~mtm@c-24-130-130-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:52:03 --- quit: rixard (*.net *.split) 20:52:03 --- quit: dzho (*.net *.split) 20:52:51 --- join: jimt (~jim@84.178.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 20:52:57 --- nick: tp_ -> tp 20:53:03 but for serious project i might choose GPL 20:53:25 unless they remove patent system 20:53:56 --- join: rixard (~rixard@81-235-139-119-no63.tbcn.telia.com) joined #forth 20:53:56 --- join: dzho (~deejoe@quercus.etrumeus.com) joined #forth 20:53:58 i dont want my forbidden to use my own code in future 20:54:08 --- quit: jimt (*.net *.split) 20:54:18 yeah 20:55:49 --- join: jimt (~jim@84.178.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 21:07:47 --- quit: beretta (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 21:18:02 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 21:19:27 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 21:20:17 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.50.50.204) joined #forth 21:21:55 --- quit: segher (Client Quit) 21:22:04 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 21:22:54 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 21:55:34 --- quit: tangentstorm (Quit: tangentstorm will return after these commercial messages...) 22:08:18 Patents amuse me. 22:08:29 I'd like to see some company sue me for putting patents into free software. :D 22:10:00 maybe you could immigrated to new zealand 22:10:15 they just cencle software patent system 22:11:39 --- quit: robotustra (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 22:11:59 That'll last until their government gets pressured by big business. 22:59:46 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 23:07:53 ttmrichter: I license all my stuff WTFPL 23:08:07 hahahah 23:08:22 'WTF' Pl ? 23:08:54 partly because I dislike the politics of licenses and partly because I feel like if you're gonna open source something with rules and conditions about how people can use it you sort of have the wrong motivations 23:09:21 even if somebody rips off one of my projects it's not like it makes mine go away 23:09:27 RodgerTheGreat: Agreed, with a dollop of "like I have the resources to sue anyway". 23:09:44 and it's not like I'm working on these projects to earn points or something 23:09:52 tp: http://www.wtfpl.net/ 23:10:10 --- quit: nottwo (Read error: Operation timed out) 23:10:43 I just want to give back to the online community in as open a manner as possible, and in many places public domain doesn't exist, so WTFPL is the next best thing 23:10:57 RodgerTheGreat: i need to take careful when meeting those big company lawyers 23:11:11 It's a real license and I think it's really the only one that's in the spirit of freedom I like. 23:11:20 I don't like the viral nature of GPL and how it seems to try to bully people into open sourcing their derivative works whether they want to or not 23:11:25 It's not commie propaganda (GPL) and it's not "lookatmelookatmelookatme!" (BSD). 23:11:41 I like the GPL myself, won't use anything else 23:11:57 it's bully, or be bullied in this world 23:12:05 I just find the GPL to be recursively hypocritical. 23:12:10 I believe that people who write code should be allowed to choose to keep something closed or open and I dislike the GPL camps that make it a moral imperative to open source things; it strikes me as very entitled. 23:12:33 and it just so happens that the vast majority of my projects end up being open sourced when I feel it's time 23:12:52 That's the part that offends me most about the GPL: the preaching and moralizing. 23:12:59 bingo 23:13:05 just shut up and write code 23:13:12 tp agree with you, that's why i would use gpl on serious project 23:13:22 --- join: nottwo (~trannie@nottwo.org) joined #forth 23:14:14 GPL people seem to get all pissed off when some other party tries to make money with their code, and usually it seems to boil down to just some kind of inarticulate hatred of capitalism or something 23:14:39 if you're afraid that somebody might make money as a result of something you're doing for free, maybe don't open source it? 23:14:44 it's a religious thing, and I'm not going to get into a big drawn out argument over the GPl :) 23:15:01 tp: sure, that's reasonable 23:15:07 tp: That's exactly what I find offensive about it (and its fuck-buddy: BSD). It's religion. 23:16:21 but I respect your opinion, every body has their own 23:17:16 I don't respect your opinion. I respect your right to hold it and to (politely) express it. :D 23:17:29 haha 23:17:42 nice distinction 23:18:05 * ttmrichter enjoys hair-splitting. 23:18:32 Oh, speaking of, I finally got this damned F3DISCOVERY working (under VirtualBox WindowsXP). 23:18:46 It's ... pretty stupid when the demonstration projects don't work with the settings out of the box. 23:18:54 I don't think I'm God, and my opinion is superior to yours, in the end, you may be more 'right' than me, it sure wouldn't be the first time in my case, I've been 'wrong' plenty of times 23:19:11 * ttmrichter is cursed with never being wrong. 23:19:21 Except, of course, for that one time I said I was never wrong. 23:19:29 I'm still muddling my way thru this life ..... 23:20:12 ttmrichter: I made an error once. It turns out I was mistaken. 23:20:19 hahah 23:20:29 I amaze my students these days. 23:20:30 thats a old classic 23:20:37 I always ... always, without exception ... write in ink. 23:20:54 Even on things where they'd use pencil because they're afraid of making mistakes. 23:21:11 I don't have the heart to tell them that the pens are Frixion (google it) pens. 23:24:13 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 23:29:33 ttmrichter: i still cant 23:29:48 and worse i ereased its flash yesterday 23:30:05 You're going through the Linux tools or Windows ones? 23:30:20 linux tools stlink 23:30:33 it seems it has bug when using st-flash 23:30:43 it could read and erase 23:30:45 I wasn't going to use that one until I knew I could undo the damage in Windows. :) 23:30:50 stlink.... not my favorite thing 23:30:56 but when i use write, it tell me cant open device 23:31:16 I think STLink is one of the dumbest fucking things out there in the embedded market. 23:31:18 use stlink under windows ? 23:31:23 windows just sucks for one thing 23:31:32 the default cmd window 23:31:33 yeah, but this is stlink 23:31:38 A proprietary debug interface in a space that has JTAG. 23:31:55 I've had nothing but trouble with my other pc since I tried to use stlink 23:32:01 by st link i mean the opensource tool hosted at github 23:32:07 usb no crashes on it regurally 23:32:11 I know 23:32:49 oh, and because i use asm directly 23:33:08 gdb load failed :[ 23:33:11 yeah, thats why STM Discovery boards are a PITA 23:33:23 use Olimex STM boards instead 23:33:32 no problems under Linux 23:34:00 I'm going to unsolder my STM Discovery parts and use them on other boards 23:34:04 why they dont provide tools for *nix user since they have gained so much from these community 23:34:23 I'm not getting into *that* discussion! 23:36:19 i have email to stlink's author, hope i could got resply 23:36:26 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 23:37:29 good luk 23:37:35 good luck :) 23:54:09 --- quit: ErhardtMundt (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.06.18