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00:08:51 <yunfan> ttmrichter: hmm qemu support cortex m3 but not support m0
00:09:32 <ttmrichter> I'm sure it's just a matter of time.
00:09:49 <ttmrichter> It can't be that hard to modify m3 support to do m0.
00:10:20 <yunfan> i just googled a guy has commit a patch for supporting m0 in 2011
00:10:35 <yunfan> but now they only have m3 support :[
00:11:06 <yunfan> arm official have a verilog based emulator but you need to filling the request form
00:14:49 <tp> <mark4> but i would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 ... well said 
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02:23:23 <yunfan> just generated a gif showing the differences between lsr and asr using python
02:23:43 <yunfan> the problem is the file is too large (1.8MB)
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07:40:22 <ttmrichter> yunfan: asr == arithmetic shift right, lsr == ... logical shift right?
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09:30:13 <ASau> tangentstorm: it is rather hard to imagine DOM as nested stacks,
09:30:41 <ASau> but you can map XML processing onto stack in intuitive way
09:31:01 <ASau> since XML is intentionally context-free as much as it is possible.
09:31:12 <tangentstorm> ASau: well imagine you're generating the dom.
09:31:43 <ASau> SAX way?
09:32:04 <tangentstorm> as you go along, you're appending children to a particular context node.
09:32:10 <ASau> Sure.
09:33:01 <tangentstorm> so you would have a set of commands that manipulated the current context
09:33:26 <tangentstorm> doing things like swapping the last two things you did, deleting the last node...
09:33:41 <tangentstorm> you could have a "return" stack that would just be another node in the tree
09:33:59 <ASau> "Last node" in which sense?
09:34:19 <tangentstorm> the last child node you added
09:34:41 <tangentstorm> contextnode.lastchild or whatever the dom calls it.
09:34:47 <tangentstorm> doesn't have to be the dom, just any tree.
09:34:55 <ASau> You seem to mean prefix order.
09:35:09 <ASau> Well...
09:35:17 <tangentstorm> i mean you have a dom node
09:35:21 <tangentstorm> you type in "cat"
09:35:23 <ASau> I still don't see why and where you need "nested" stacks.
09:35:45 <tangentstorm> now it creates a new Text node with the string "cat" in it
09:35:57 <tangentstorm> and appends it to the context node.
09:36:08 <tangentstorm> now you say "frog"
09:36:22 <tangentstorm> so your document is   <node>cat frog</node>
09:36:26 <tangentstorm> now you say swap
09:36:32 <tangentstorm> <node>frog cat</node>
09:36:33 <tangentstorm> drop
09:36:37 <tangentstorm> <node>frog</node>
09:36:50 <tangentstorm> you could have something that changes the label of the node
09:36:58 <tangentstorm> "xyz"
09:36:59 <ASau> Ah, alright.
09:37:04 <tangentstorm> <node>frog xyz</node>
09:37:09 <tangentstorm> ^
09:37:17 <tangentstorm> <xyz>frog</xyz>
09:37:43 <tangentstorm> something like that.
09:37:52 <ASau> But you still don't need "nested" stacks for this.
09:37:56 <tangentstorm> I'm thinking about parsers, for example.
09:38:10 <tangentstorm> No but a nested stack is just another way of thinking about a tree.
09:38:24 <ASau> This is rather strange way to think of it.
09:38:41 <tangentstorm> a b c [ x y ] [ 1 2 ] SWAP
09:38:57 <ASau> You can introduce prefix order on your tree, and voila! You have single stack!
09:39:03 <tangentstorm> -> <root>a b c <node>1 2</node> <node>x y</node></root>
09:39:57 <tangentstorm> the stacks are nested because you may want to swap or manipulate subnodes like that
09:40:29 <tangentstorm> you might even want to descend into one and do something inside, but i can't think of a good reason.
09:40:32 <tangentstorm> (yet)
09:40:43 <tangentstorm> i'm mostly thinking about all this in the context of parsing
09:41:00 <ASau> I don't find it useful actually.
09:41:15 <tangentstorm> It's okay, I don't find an apache helicopter useful.
09:41:18 <ASau> The content is definitly a non-homogenic sequence rather than stack.
09:41:28 <tangentstorm> but that's because i don't know how to fly it and idon't need to shoot at anything.
09:41:49 <ASau> Recognizing (aka "parsing") sequence is known thing.
09:41:58 <tangentstorm> great
09:42:47 <ASau> When you build DOM, you can maintain single stack of nodes.
09:42:56 <tangentstorm> ok
09:43:09 <ASau> At each time you know your current node and all its ancestors up.
09:43:29 <ASau> The content of node is just a sequence.
09:43:52 <ASau> You can perform any operation on it that is applicable to sequences.
09:43:57 <ASau> E.g. sort items.
09:44:09 <tangentstorm> yeah. so what?
09:44:19 <tangentstorm> you can sort a stack too
09:44:24 <tangentstorm> but i don't want to do that.
09:44:51 <ASau> This is more intuitive and this is what is well-known.
09:44:54 <tangentstorm> once i've added something to the tree, i don't really need to mess with it for the most part
09:45:11 <tangentstorm> i only need to mess with the last couple things i've added.
09:45:28 <ASau> You always need to mess with all ancestors of current node.
09:45:37 <tangentstorm> always?
09:45:39 <ASau> Yes.
09:45:47 <tangentstorm> right now at this very moment?
09:45:51 <ASau> Yes.
09:46:02 <tangentstorm> ok. well i'm just AWOL then. :)
09:46:43 <ASau> Once you meet closing tag for the current node, the next one may be
09:46:48 <ASau> either opening tag for the new node that you're going to attach to the parent,
09:46:50 <tangentstorm> it's hard for me to listen to what you're saying because you're just imagining requirements.
09:46:54 <ASau> or closing tag for the parent.
09:47:00 <tangentstorm> the dom doesn't have tags.
09:47:03 <tangentstorm> html or xml has tags.
09:47:08 <tangentstorm> the dom has nodes.
09:47:22 <ASau> XML tag directly corresponds to DOM tag.
09:47:28 <ASau> DOM node tag.
09:47:35 <tangentstorm> it's an ElementNode
09:47:47 <tangentstorm> it's a tree
09:48:14 <ASau> How do you distinguish between node that is generated from <a>asdf</a> and from <b>asdf</b>?
09:48:27 <tangentstorm> in xml you have to have a start and and end (or just a self -closing tag)
09:49:02 <tangentstorm> but in pascal or python you might have    "try" as your opening tag,  then several "except"  tags then "finally"
09:49:03 <ASau> In previous both DOM nodes have the same content which is "asdf".
09:49:09 <tangentstorm> in pascal you close it with "end"
09:49:21 <tangentstorm> in python you close it by dedenting.
09:49:36 <ASau> I know CFGs, you don't need to explain them.
09:49:48 <tangentstorm> okay, but those can correspond to a DOM too.
09:49:58 <tangentstorm> DOM = annotated syntax tree
09:50:12 <ASau> "Annotated" in which sense?
09:50:19 <tangentstorm> in that it has attributes
09:50:19 <ASau> What you call "annotation"?
09:50:34 <tangentstorm> or in that you can just put arbitrary stuff in it. :)
09:50:37 <tangentstorm> comments if you want
09:50:53 <ASau> <tag attr="value">content</tag>
09:50:57 <tangentstorm> yeah
09:51:05 <ASau> What corresponds to annotation in your sense?
09:51:09 <tangentstorm> also <!-- comment -->
09:51:15 <tangentstorm> i just meant the attributes
09:51:26 <tangentstorm> but also comments, processing instructions, random nodes.
09:51:48 <ASau> So, "annotation" in your sense is list of attribute-value pairs, is this correct understanding?
09:52:09 <tangentstorm> it's just a set of arbitrary dom nodes.
09:52:31 <ASau> <tag attr="value">content</tag> is the single DOM node usually.
09:53:39 <ASau> Or two if you call "content" a node.
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10:07:18 <tangentstorm> no it isn't, ASau. You don't know what you're talking about. Sorry.
10:07:57 <ASau> My point is that "tag" is not only XML tag, it is tag of node in DOM tree.
10:08:17 <tangentstorm> that's at least 3 nodes. probably 4
10:08:17 <ASau> Each DOM node has tag, associated list of attribute-value pairs and content.
10:08:31 <ASau> No, it is not separate node.
10:08:36 <tangentstorm> Theres an element called "tag"
10:08:40 <tangentstorm> and attribute called "attr"
10:08:49 <tangentstorm> and a text node called content
10:09:02 <tangentstorm> there's also the document node that contains it.
10:09:32 <ASau> type dom_node is record tag: string; attributes: array of record attribute: string; value: string end; content: content end;
10:09:54 <tangentstorm> maybe in your mind.
10:10:00 * ASau shrugs.
10:10:01 <tangentstorm> or in some software you wrote.
10:10:07 <ASau> Try looking around.
10:10:07 <tangentstorm> I'm talking about the W3C DOM.
10:10:19 <ASau> ~Everyone represents it so.
10:10:34 <tangentstorm> Everyone's an idiot then.
10:10:48 <ASau> You're the only smart person around, right. :D
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10:11:48 <tangentstorm> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Core/idl-definitions.html
10:12:27 <tangentstorm> interface Attr : Node {
10:12:38 <tangentstorm> interface Element : Node {
10:12:45 <tangentstorm> interface Text : CharacterData {
10:12:53 <tangentstorm> interface CharacterData : Node {
10:13:20 <tangentstorm> interface Document : Node {
10:15:57 <ASau> Ah, yeah... W3C does have this funky idea...
10:16:18 <ASau> Well... If you do wish to follow this path, you can do that.
10:16:27 <tangentstorm> Thanks for your blessing. :)
10:16:28 <ASau> Not that it simplifies anything actually.
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19:50:28 <yunfan> ttmrichter: good news, i got the word "any app or image that design for cortex m0 could run on cortex m3 without change"
19:50:58 <ttmrichter> Well that makes a degree of sense.
19:51:19 <yunfan> so what i need is qemu with -cpu cortex-m3
20:08:30 <ttmrichter> Or an MCU with a Cortex-M0.  ;)
20:15:05 <yunfan> i have that
20:15:12 <yunfan> but not in my office :]
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20:17:57 <ttmrichter> Take it in your pocket.  :)
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