00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.06.07 00:05:39 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 00:28:40 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 00:28:54 --- quit: rixard (Quit: rixard) 00:46:18 --- join: Anarch (~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 00:46:21 --- join: albertone (~androirc@pD9E26DBE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 00:49:02 --- quit: dzho (Read error: Operation timed out) 00:49:12 --- join: dzho (~deejoe@quercus.etrumeus.com) joined #forth 00:54:02 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 01:02:13 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 01:58:48 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 02:53:15 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 02:54:07 --- join: ASau (~user@p5797EDA1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 03:01:19 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-93-251.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 03:07:47 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~nsv@109.188.125.235) 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(~fish@2602:30a:2c92:c1b0:218:deff:feb0:e2ac) joined #forth 11:44:27 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 11:45:52 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 11:48:21 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 11:51:53 --- join: protist_ (~protist@29.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 11:55:00 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 12:02:01 --- quit: protist_ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 12:30:37 --- join: Mat2 (~claude@91-65-144-133-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #forth 12:30:41 hi 12:32:32 Hi 13:02:24 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 13:27:04 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Verlassend) 13:34:17 --- join: robotustra (robotustra@cable-11.246.173-140.electronicbox.net) joined #forth 14:04:02 hello 14:07:27 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 14:13:37 hello 14:35:15 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 15:04:35 --- quit: kevinfish (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:05:56 --- quit: Tod-Work (Quit: Leaving) 15:10:42 --- quit: JDat () 15:18:03 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 15:42:44 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 16:28:42 --- join: genntelman (~Incredibl@unaffiliated/incredible) joined #forth 16:28:53 .__. 16:35:26 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 16:36:08 --- join: kevinfish (~fish@2602:30a:2c92:c1b0:218:deff:feb0:e2ac) joined #forth 16:38:33 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 16:39:50 --- quit: mtm (Quit: Leaving...) 16:40:58 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 16:55:39 howdy folks 16:57:09 I'm in the last stages of shoehorning FlashForth into a PIC18F24K20 chip atm, just soldering the surface mount bits under the microscope 16:57:42 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17:20:56 --- join: overdamped (~overdampe@unaffiliated/overdamped) joined #forth 17:31:23 --- quit: genntelman (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 17:47:26 --- quit: kevinfish (Quit: Leaving.) 17:50:11 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 17:59:44 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 18:46:26 --- quit: overdamped (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:47:19 tp: spiffy. I've started doing tinkering with FlashForth myself 18:47:52 a PIC18F8277 if I recall correctly 18:48:17 ahh 18:49:51 RodgerTheGreat, thats a fairly to end 18F family member by the looks 18:49:52 I'm just using a dev board for the time being though 18:50:03 RodgerTheGreat, thats a fairly hi-end 18F family member by the looks 18:50:08 yeah 18:50:26 I'm impressed with flashforth, cant be beat for easy development 18:50:37 it's pretty nice 18:50:59 I had a few bumps getting serial communication working properly 18:51:07 the PIC18F24K20 is avail for around 50 cents, runs up to 65Mhz, but the one I have is only 16KB flash 18:51:14 it was originally calculating the timing for baud rate incorrectly 18:51:32 tp: I think the FF kernel only uses like 8k 18:51:37 that will get ya 18:51:49 so you'll be a bit limited but should be able to do stuff pretty easily 18:51:56 yes, correct, so I have 50% flash left in this small chip 18:52:11 forth can do a lot in 8k. :) 18:52:16 I've been thru the comms issues with flashforth 18:52:59 I found a great Android term emulator, it's called "slick usb to ser' 18:53:22 --- join: overdamped (~overdampe@unaffiliated/overdamped) joined #forth 18:53:41 cant beat a cheap android tablet with usb-serial dongle on the workbench for developing Forth 18:53:46 ah, using an android device as a serial terminal? That's interesting. 18:53:49 applications for embedded 18:54:08 I've tried a few, settled on the "slick usb to ser' as it's too easy to use 18:54:14 I like having access to all my datasheets with a desktop though 18:54:26 yeah, there is that 18:54:41 I'm using the "CuteCom" application mentioned in the FF tutorial 18:55:00 I also have Forth on Arm, compliments of 'Risky Pigness" by Frank Seargant, and that really rules, no comms problems there 18:55:27 I find cutecom screws up my 'words' display, and the font is way to small 18:55:43 yeah, it doesn't display tabs properly 18:56:05 I hacked the implementation of "words" to insert a space instead of a tab. 18:56:12 but "slick usb to ser' is really nice 18:56:26 ahh, excellent 18:56:33 What the Hell is "Risky Pigness"? 18:56:44 hehe, Frank loves strange names 18:56:58 hi ttmrichter (techman1 here) 18:56:59 The problem is that Google knows nothing of it. 18:57:14 So I can't even find out what it means. 18:57:17 it's based on Pigmy Forth, but for risc cpus 18:57:27 Have you got a link for it? 18:57:29 I can supply a url, standby 18:57:56 http://www.utoh.org/riscy/ 18:58:22 Ah, that's why Google couldn't find it. 18:58:25 Riscy Pygness 18:58:31 my spelling! 18:58:40 apologies 18:58:59 No problem. I was getting more pissed of at Google, personally. 18:59:09 (Google search has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay downhill.) 18:59:10 it seems like a 'full featured' forth to me, and all you need is a JTAG dongle 18:59:18 yeah, it's all about $$ 18:59:22 And it supports STM32s! Yes! 18:59:40 baller 18:59:47 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Read error: Operation timed out) 18:59:51 yep 18:59:54 and man, it's fast 19:00:08 supports a few arms actually 19:00:17 The STM suite is probably my favourite suite of microcontrollers. 19:00:23 the nxp, plys stm 19:00:33 same, they are so easy to use 19:00:36 So I have four different STM32-based eval boards. :) 19:00:41 I recall 19:00:48 I have a couple 19:01:27 plus the easiest one to get going, the olimex "stm32-p103' 19:01:39 Frank has targeted that exact board 19:01:44 Wow! This is old. 19:01:50 right down to the onboard led 19:02:11 yeah, it's old, but Frank is still around, and still answers emails 19:02:17 Is there a public repo for this or is he doing closed-shop development? 19:02:49 I just followed his links 19:03:18 I was thinking more in terms of adding support for various eval boards for a broader out-of-the-box selection. 19:04:02 just email frank ? 19:04:35 it seems pretty easy to add other arm support 19:04:43 and the doc explains how to do that 19:04:55 I'm sure it is. 19:05:03 It looks pretty solid. 19:05:23 it worked first time, and is easy to go turnkey 19:05:42 I'm still in awe of it compared to say Flashforth 19:07:30 I've just ordered a heap of Cortex M0's in a 32 pin surface mount package 19:07:35 64KB flash 19:08:06 and then I'll do a pcb and put RP ( Riscy Pygness) on that chip 19:08:07 well to be fair, PIC chips are batshit and the arm devices are probably much more sensible to write code for 19:08:48 FF has to paper over the PICs segmented memory model and harvard architecture for example 19:08:52 RodgerTheGreat: Are PICs as batshit as the STM8? 19:09:05 I'm not familiar with the STM8 19:09:12 at leasy Microchip makes a free Linux IDE for assembling FlashForth :) 19:09:24 Pseudo-Harvard, pseudo-RISC 8-bit MCU. 19:09:32 That's about the best way to describe the STM8. 19:09:56 Oh, wait. This Frank Sergeant guy is the guy behind "3-instruction Forth". 19:10:04 He's CRAZY! :D 19:10:21 ttmrichter: so far that sounds like the STM8 has a rough degree of batshit-parity with the PIC 19:10:32 from my pov, PIC's have a couple of advantages:- 1) microchip is Linux friendly thesedays, 2) they have a ton of chips with various lead styles including thru hole 19:10:40 oh yeah, I've heard of the 3-instruction forth 19:10:54 Oh, and pseudo-segmented architecture. 19:11:00 tp: they are dirt cheap and readily available 19:11:03 Everything in the STM8 is "almost, but not quite". 19:11:20 I wish STM would get more Linux-friendly. :( 19:11:22 but ARM, is like the biggest hurricane the embedded chip market ever saw, it's just wiping the floor of 8 and 16 bit chips 19:11:55 MCUs have been stagnating for a while technologically 19:12:07 STM software is crap, luckily ARM support under Linux is beyond outstanding 19:12:09 it's good for them to get a kick in the pants 19:12:10 yeah 19:12:11 Well, when I can get a 32-bit MCU that's small enough I can build it directly into a magnetic card reader head (!) and that gives me computing power sufficient to do advanced cryptography ... 19:12:21 And all that for under US$0.60 (unit price)... 19:12:25 yep 19:12:37 There's a reason it's sweeping away the other chips. 19:12:44 ttmrichter: aside from the 32-bit part that's already pretty feasible 19:12:52 depending on what you mean by "advanced" 19:13:03 the Linux Eclipse/gdb/Arm dev environment is brilliant, if complex 19:13:04 With a bit of trickery, public key. 19:13:21 (AES is already built in to this particular chip.) 19:13:49 somebody just get chuck to use a modern fab process on the GA144 and you'd have a friggin' incredible crypto chip 19:14:00 and it would be teensy 19:14:02 Yeah, the GA144 is interesting. 19:14:04 and if you have a STM board, RP is waiting for you to enjoy 19:15:53 I've loaded RP onto a M4 (STM32M4 Discovery) but havent connected up a terminal to see if it works yet 19:16:09 that will happen in a few days 19:16:41 M4 discovery? I only know of the F4 discovery. 19:16:52 but to do that, I had to run up the STM programmer software under windows to burn the RP hex file 19:16:58 oops 19:17:03 sorry my bad 19:17:11 I meant F4 19:17:17 If you have an F4 discovery version of RP, would you care to share your mods? :) 19:17:27 (The F4 is one of the discovery boards I have.) 19:17:42 love to, but I havent done any mods as yet 19:17:55 I'll share everything when I get to testing it 19:18:16 I've only dropped the RP hexfile onto the F4 discovery 19:18:26 and havent yet confirmed it's working 19:19:18 RP is very cool in that although it's a 'tethered Forth' system, if you reboot the cpu with a terminal emulator connected, it will potput 'ok' 19:19:53 but a term emulator cannot talk to it, as it requires Franks special TCL based terminal, being tethered 19:20:18 TCL + Forth. What a charmingly esoteric combination! 19:20:31 TCL is just for the terminal 19:20:43 and it has zero comms issues 19:21:06 uses 'blocks' etc 19:21:41 I really only understand the very basics of RP, and every time I reread the doc I find something new 19:25:16 --- quit: albertone (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 19:32:28 --- join: albertone (~androirc@pD9E26076.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 20:18:53 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.39.245) joined #forth 20:23:38 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 20:33:43 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 20:34:20 --- quit: overdamped (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20:39:50 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 20:40:54 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-93-251.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 20:45:39 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 261 seconds) 20:58:28 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-93-251.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 21:23:10 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 21:24:23 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 22:11:58 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 22:13:19 --- quit: robotustra (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 22:18:07 --- join: overdamped (~overdampe@unaffiliated/overdamped) joined #forth 22:44:18 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 22:46:50 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 22:49:47 --- quit: overdamped (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22:56:56 --- join: protist_ (~protist@40.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 22:56:56 --- nick: protist_ -> protist 23:05:04 --- join: ASau` (~user@p5797F582.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 23:07:51 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:14:04 ttmrichter, http://pygmy.utoh.org/riscy/cortex: for STM32 23:18:22 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 23:29:59 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 23:46:28 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.06.07