00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.06.04 00:18:15 --- join: ASau (~user@p5797EA1A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 00:23:57 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 00:24:43 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 00:28:48 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Operation timed out) 00:37:19 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00:42:23 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 01:06:20 --- join: obobo_ (~obobo@dyn-76-75-123-242.nexicom.net) joined #forth 01:07:12 --- quit: obobo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 01:25:08 --- join: protist (~protist@230.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 01:48:49 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 01:52:23 --- join: tathi (~josh@dsl-216-227-91-75.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 01:52:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tathi 02:07:56 --- quit: karswell (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 02:08:32 --- quit: tangentstorm (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 02:09:35 --- join: tangentstorm (~michal@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 02:33:45 kulp: my `does>' appears to work, now :D 02:40:22 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 02:50:59 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 03:20:34 --- join: obobo__ (~obobo@dyn-76-75-88-114.nexicom.net) joined #forth 03:24:04 --- quit: obobo_ (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 03:28:13 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 03:36:14 --- join: techman1 (~tp@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 03:38:06 hi all, I'm a rank Forth beginner, I have 'flashforth' running on a microchip 18F2250, everything is working well, but I was wondering if there is a word to 'decompile' or display the subset of a word I have created and its now in the dictionary ? 03:38:51 Or is it customary to make sure I have saved all word contents before saving to the dictionary ? 03:39:49 Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question. I have googled, but suspect I lack the terminology to locate a answer 03:40:45 hi Eth|cal, dad here 03:41:18 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-87-132.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 03:43:38 ah ok, "see" is supposed to do this, but "see" isnt in my dictionary .. 03:48:37 --- nick: Adeonicorn -> Adeonasus 03:54:34 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 04:13:17 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 04:25:46 I found 'see' in the didtribution tarball and uploaded it, *now* it's in the dictionary :) 04:26:14 That's always nice. 04:26:20 Does your implementation disassemble code words? 04:26:26 yes 04:26:32 That's even nicer. :D 04:26:34 was a short sample ? 04:27:03 Sure. I always like seeing well-written software in action. Sadly a very rare experience. :( 04:27:23 i was actually hoping for a breakdown of the words I used to build a word, but the machine code dissasembley is nice too 04:27:41 Oh, it doesn't handle composite words as a list of words? 04:27:58 haha, you wont see much from me, I'm a electronics tech, programmer wannabe 04:28:13 I'm the opposite. :) 04:28:33 a programmer :) 04:28:44 Who's now growing into the electronics side. 04:28:55 excellent 04:29:23 im 58 years old, and have been a electronics tech/developer all my life 04:29:38 but have always cludged code when needed 04:30:03 I'm 47 and have been a programmer much of my life, but the first 9 years of my actual career involved working at the low level and with people like you. ;) 04:30:23 aha 04:31:01 i started in RF, and found I loved Industrial Electronics, so moved into building prototypes for engineers 04:31:19 back in the days of the old National "Pace" microprocessor 04:32:35 I started my career with minicomputers. 04:32:46 this was my word : ledon 1 latb mset \ turn led on ; 04:33:00 and " see ledon " gave me this 04:33:13 PDPs (8s and 11s) and Interdata Model 70s. 04:33:17 see ledon 04:33:17 24ce 0e01 04:33:18 24d0 6eec 04:33:18 24d2 6aec 04:33:18 24d4 dfcc 04:33:18 rcall latb 04:33:20 24d6 ef7c f003 goto mset 04:33:22 ok<$,ram> 04:33:33 How does that work? Surely the comment hides the semicolon? 04:33:43 ahh, I just missed the PDP's, thos the engineers I assisted grew up on them 04:33:53 oops 04:34:30 er, no I dont think so 04:34:46 let me check 04:36:25 here is a excert from the authors docs 04:36:27 : speed ( -- ) \ 833 KHz @ 12 MHz 04:36:27 [ 04:36:27 trisc 2 0 bcf, 04:36:27 begin, 04:36:27 portc 2 0 bcf, 04:36:29 portc 2 0 bsf, 04:36:31 again, 04:36:33 ; 04:37:33 i guess the comment isnt compiled, in any event "see" only shows me the machine code of the actual word 04:38:27 ttmrichter, I'm in Australia, and have never come across the brand Interdata, perhaps it was more common in other countries ? 04:38:41 back in the day ;-) 04:39:40 It was later bought by Perkin-Elmers. 04:39:47 You may have heard of it under that name. 04:40:03 ah yes, definitely 04:40:28 Interdata was one of those companies that was innovative technically but if doing marketing for KFC would have called it Kentucky Hot Dead Chicken Parts. 04:40:47 To my knowledge they made the first 32-bit minicomputer, for example. 04:40:49 my little Forth board here is a single chip, one 10Mhz xtal, and a usb to 3.3v dongle + 5volts 04:40:53 But nobody knows about it. 04:41:03 hahaha 04:41:05 Everybody's heard of the VAX/11, though. 04:41:11 yes 04:41:22 Interdata was just that kind of place. 04:41:24 I do remember lusting after a PDP/8 04:41:33 I *STILL* lust after one. 04:41:33 but never operated one 04:41:43 I want a PDP-8/E or /M. 04:42:49 I believe they were wirewraped. which means that although I lusted after Fay Dunnaway, back in the day, I'd be very disappointed today if we met (not nearly as disappointed as her tho) 04:43:04 and so with the PDP 04:43:07 They were indeed wire-wrapped. 04:43:21 wirewrap just doesnt stand the test of time that well 04:43:25 (Well, there was the DEC attempt at making PDP-8 and PDP-11 personal computers, but those don't count. I'm only interested in Big Iron.) 04:43:48 aha 04:44:46 if 32 bits is big iron, a $0.65USD,32 pin SMT ARM chip of 3mmx3mm would qualify thesedays ;-) 04:45:06 No, Big Iron is about size, not about bits. :) 04:45:15 size and KW ? 04:45:19 Right. 04:45:39 great to have in the lab in winter, apart from the noise 04:45:51 Two words: ear defenders. 04:45:53 :) 04:46:00 (One more word: WHAT?!) 04:46:14 im the opposite, I love SMT and modern microprocessors 04:46:25 SMT? 04:46:30 yeah, and youre usually freezing your butt off as well 04:46:33 I like modern kit in many ways, but modern software pisses me off. 04:46:35 surface mount tech 04:46:38 Ah. 04:46:41 That's fine. 04:46:44 But it lacks soul. :) 04:47:01 I used to manage a SMT plant, loved that job 04:47:04 (Where "soul" is defined as "really annoying idiosyncracies".) 04:47:13 hahahah, and unreliability 04:47:34 any car with soul, is invariably unreliable 04:47:39 like my old Audi 04:47:44 Yeah, back then hardware was unreliable and software was more bulletproof. 04:47:47 it has a LOT of soul ;-) 04:47:59 Now hardware is insanely reliable, but software can't last longer than a day without crashing in a big way. 04:48:13 there was a day when it was hard to tell software and hardware apart ... 04:48:16 Probably why I'm moving in the direction of hardware for my funtimeplay. 04:48:28 namely, when the software was in diode arrays 04:48:44 It was always easy! If you could hit it with a hammer, it was hardware. If you only WANTED to hit it with a hammer but couldn't, it was software. 04:48:50 Ah, I wouldn't call that software as such. 04:48:59 Proto-software. 04:49:02 i should also confess, I'm a unix guy 04:49:05 The godfather of software. 04:49:12 I'm ... somewhat of a Unix guy. 04:49:23 I don't like what Unix has become. 04:49:35 all softare sucks, as they say, but Unix sucks a bit less 04:50:03 I have my issues there as well, I resist and hate change, tho Id rather I didnt 04:50:20 I find its harder to embrace change the older I get 04:50:49 It was always easy! If you could hit it with a hammer, it was hardware. If you only WANTED to hit it with a hammer but couldn't, it was software. LOL 04:50:59 nice definition 04:52:21 this particular chip I'm using is a Microchip PIC fron the 18F family, and I have both Forth (FlashForth) and C (cPic) set up for it 04:52:30 so far, Forth is winning 04:53:25 Right now the embedded things I've got are an STM8 board, three STM32 boards (STM32L, STM32F3 and STM32F4) and one megaboard that has an 8051, an STM32, a MAX II CPLD and a Cyclone IV FPGA. 04:53:29 I'm swamped. :( 04:53:39 hahah 04:54:12 I also have a a STM32 Olimex board running RiskyPigness by Frank Sargeant 04:54:27 F3103 I think 04:55:17 I'm in awe of RiskyPigness, and have left it till last, like a kid savoring his desert till last 04:55:36 what kid does that 04:55:49 I'm in awe of STMicro's whole *Discovery line. 04:55:49 Ive tested it, emailed Frank on a couple of minor issues, and its damn fast on the STM32F103 04:55:54 Dirt cheap yet full of fun things. 04:56:11 kulp, I may have done that as a kid :) 04:56:30 :) 04:56:55 ttmrichter, I'll say, I just bought 20x of the STM32F103's for $2.50 each (I think thats right) 04:57:25 Yeah. I love the STM line. 04:57:31 Cheap, yet capable. 04:57:40 The stuff I can make with that boggles the mind. 04:57:48 ARMS are just amazing, and so low in cost! I can get STM32F100's for 0.56USD ea in one off quantities 04:58:37 I can get STM32F0s for ... well, less than that. :) 04:58:44 Im using the PICS atm for simple projects and because they come in small packages etc 04:58:44 About a buck a dozen. 04:58:52 (That's translating the RMB prices.) 04:59:13 im in AU, and just purchase on line, im only a small developer, ill never need thousands 04:59:21 RMB ? 04:59:48 I make a small line of industrial level detectors, that kind of thing 04:59:52 元人民币. 05:00:01 Chinese currency. 05:00:03 ahh 05:00:16 ( I dont get out much ;-) 05:01:44 I also failed miserably at getting myForth onto some Silabs micros, so theyre at the end of the dev queue for now 05:02:37 really, it was pointless anyway, as ARM is just sweeping everything before it 05:02:37 Why don't you just make your own? 05:02:46 my own Forth ? 05:02:49 Yeah. 05:02:57 I can point you to some tutorials. 05:03:06 It's a weekend's job if you dedicate yourself to it. 05:03:21 no way, it would be a abhorrence, and they would have to put me down 05:03:30 for crimes against nature 05:04:00 im a electronics tech, thats what Im good at 05:05:08 but thanks anyway. As it is, i'll be dying mid project, given that Im 58, and im only about 300/10000 projects finished ;-) 05:05:28 and thats just this year ... 05:05:36 Project #1: Longevity. 05:05:42 Project #2: I'll get around to it someday... 05:06:06 i cant complain, so many interesting projects, so little time 05:06:30 and ive burned so brightly thus far ... 05:06:52 Sadly I burnt out in 2001. 05:06:55 Quit the industry. 05:07:00 but im no hacker, I know one, and his brain scares me 05:07:02 Now I'm a dilettante. Much better. 05:07:06 lol 05:07:26 easy to burn out I know 05:08:07 and I do believe that its much, much better to burn out, than to fade away ;-) 05:10:02 I still work, (for myself) but keep the pace where I'm just slightly uncomfortable, so I don't become too complacent 05:17:22 ttmrichter, thanks for the chat, its 22:30 here, catch you another day! 05:17:32 --- quit: techman1 (Quit: Leaving) 05:36:19 --- quit: dto (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 05:38:17 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:02:37 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 06:26:26 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-115-87-203-54.revip4.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 06:33:13 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 06:38:39 --- join: dys (~user@2a01:1e8:e100:8296:21a:4dff:fe4e:273a) joined #forth 07:06:17 --- join: dto-00 (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 07:07:35 --- join: fantazo 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