00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.05.28 00:55:23 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 01:09:46 ttmrichter: I googled iboard and got to non-latin charset world. Is there any english page about that mystical beast of yours? 01:10:22 Vuokko: No. It's a Chinese product sold in China. :) 01:13:37 lol 01:13:57 imp3 forum has a english sub forum for foreigner 01:37:11 --- join: vectorman (~lenovo@pppoe-130-215.ssi.bg) joined #forth 01:38:09 I feel so outsider:( I hav only about 5 million other people to speak with Finnish and maybe 1000 of them can understand forth. Here all cool links are in Chinese and you guys are fluent in it and I don't understand it at all :( 01:40:06 tamen cxu vi komprenas esperanton? 01:41:42 Vuokko: well finland is a cool place , isnt it? 01:42:17 it has linux kernel and minecraft :] 01:43:04 well. there are some hardcore codeders in here 01:43:22 and i think 1000 forther is a huge number 01:43:56 the forther i knew in beijing just about 10 or less 01:44:03 not that many really aren't forth coders they just understand it 01:44:32 I personally know 5 people who like forth. 01:45:04 i think the reason why you met so many forth link in chinese is because taiwaness used to produced almost all the motherboard of PC :] 01:46:00 and although both we are called chinese, i really feel difficult while reading their tranditional chinese 01:46:56 that's propably the reason. Most computer science studies in Finland has some GSM protocol courses. Thanks to Nokia 01:47:40 aha 01:48:03 this made me remember the germany's crack of GSM 01:49:23 Vuokko: does finland has summer? 01:50:05 yes 01:50:24 now it is nice 20 degrees 01:51:36 then i dont worry about your farming 01:53:54 I'll go out now. I need to fix my flat tire from my motorbike. 01:55:06 ok see you 02:43:40 --- quit: vectorman (Quit: Leaving) 03:03:09 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 03:32:25 --- join: ttmrichter_ (~ttmrichte@61.183.53.36) joined #forth 03:33:27 Vuokko: What ever made you think I'm fluent in Chinese? 03:39:42 --- quit: ttmrichter_ (Quit: Quit) 03:45:29 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 04:05:11 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 04:09:46 --- quit: tathi (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04:42:56 --- quit: Bahman1 (Quit: Leaving.) 04:56:19 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.43.66) joined #forth 05:48:35 --- quit: mark4 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:05:00 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 06:29:40 --- join: tathi (~josh@dsl-216-227-91-150.fairpoint.net) joined #forth 06:29:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tathi 06:39:45 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 06:54:45 --- quit: dto (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 07:04:20 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: Leaving.) 07:18:12 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 249 seconds) 07:18:12 --- quit: cataska (Ping timeout: 249 seconds) 07:18:12 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 249 seconds) 07:18:13 --- quit: Backer (Ping timeout: 249 seconds) 07:18:14 --- quit: Anarch (Ping timeout: 249 seconds) 07:18:17 --- join: Anarch (~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:18:17 --- join: Backer (~backer@user-387h39d.cable.mindspring.com) joined #forth 07:18:44 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@31.25.101.133) joined #forth 07:19:16 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 07:33:57 --- join: jyf (~root@42.96.194.66) joined #forth 07:45:13 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 07:52:12 --- quit: jevin (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 07:58:28 --- join: jevin (~jevin@72.12.217.220) joined #forth 08:43:55 ttmrichter: If you are using Chinese only dev board, you propably need to be able to understand additional documentation. Not just datasheets 08:52:00 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 09:09:00 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 09:20:58 --- join: Tod-Work (~thansmann@50-202-143-210-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 09:28:51 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 09:29:04 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 10:13:05 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:17:46 --- join: berdario (~berdario@host170-164-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 10:19:01 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Quit: c00kiemon5ter) 10:25:00 --- join: DrPete (~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete) joined #forth 10:40:19 Hi, I got interested in Forth recently... I read "starting forth" and "thinking forth" and now I installed forth warrior to try and get acquaintance with forth 10:40:34 this is forth warrior: https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Mako/tree/master/games/Warrior2 10:40:46 maybe someone has already seen it? 10:42:07 unfortunately, when trying to load my script, I get an error about an unknown word (which I just defined in the previous line, though) 10:42:41 so, I'm at a bit of a loss.. 10:44:06 If not forth warrior, I'd like to have suggestion on some examples to work on... I already have gforth installed (usually, when starting with a new language, I solve small problems like the Project Euler ones... but Forth Warrior seemed more fun) 10:51:49 --- join: Mat2 (~claude@91-65-144-133-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #forth 10:51:54 hello 11:04:02 berdario: can you post your program 11:09:27 also are you using warrior or warrior2? 11:17:35 dessos: warrior2 11:18:01 can you post the script you wrote? 11:18:07 http://dpaste.com/1202707/ 11:18:21 it's just a simple modification of the example script, for now 11:18:28 the problem are the 2 commented out lines 11:18:42 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.113) joined #forth 11:18:48 if I load the script, I can manually do "dirvector ' straight !" 11:18:59 but then, when I dot "dirvector @ ." I still get 1 11:19:11 and not the address of the straight word 11:20:06 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 11:20:49 RodgerTheGreat wrote mako/forthwarrior so he'd probably know 11:21:04 so i guess wait until he comes on 11:21:11 dessos: does he hangs out here? 11:21:14 oh, thanks 11:21:14 yes 11:22:03 dessos, have you tried to run forth warrior before? maybe warrior1 is more stable? 11:24:44 i've only ever tried warrior2 before 11:25:15 --- join: vectorman (~vesko@78.83.25.116) joined #forth 11:25:32 i think they're basically the same 11:26:02 except warrior2 has the interactive command line 11:33:08 --- quit: Mat2 (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 11:46:17 berdario, he works down the hall from me, but we're doing a dinner thing tonight, so it might be a bit before he gets on. I'll look at your code in a sec, though. 11:46:30 uh, thansk 11:49:06 berdario, your error is on line 18, right? It's complaining about dirvector not being known? 11:49:15 --- join: Mat2 (~claude@91-65-144-133-dynip.superkabel.de) joined #forth 11:49:20 er 11:49:24 s/dirvector/act/ 11:49:31 Tod-Work: no, line 34, it complains about "straight" 11:49:36 I commented it out, to get it to load 11:49:41 ah 11:49:49 but originally, both line 34 and 35 weren't commented out 11:49:58 s/35/36/ 11:53:19 FWIW, what I wanted to accomplish, is this: when found a dead end, instead of going straight, start to look for a path at the right... ad when going right, as soon as a path to the right is found, go back to going straight 11:54:07 each doact calls exit, so a dead end is when it got to the end of the "straight" word, without going into an exit 11:55:45 your inconsistent tabbing/spacing makes it difficult to read, btw. Just a commentary, not a dismissal. 11:55:54 I wanted to do something like... : straight doact 1 - doact 1 + doact set right ; : right 1 + act if set straight exit then 1 - doact 1 - doact ; 11:56:30 line 25 is your problem 11:56:42 that is, that's mutual recursion... and from the readme, I found out that it suggest to vector the words 11:57:09 Tod-Work: oh, thanks... what's wrong with line 25? 11:57:17 he says the following: "trydir and dirvector each push an address of storage onto the stack, @ dereferences an address. ! expects ( value addr — ) but he is instead giving it ( addr value — )" 11:57:49 uhm, I don't get the character you wrote after "value addr" 11:58:06 it's two dashes 11:58:17 or one dash, I guess 11:58:30 ok 11:58:49 btw, I wrote the code with the forth-mode of emacs 11:58:58 while trying to stay as close as possible to the example style 12:00:16 I don't know why... I just realized it now, but the forth-mode hides the tabs (when switching to fundamental mode I can see that I've a mix of tabs and spaces) 12:00:43 berdario, for forth practice, you might try a fizzbuzz implentation, a few Project Euler problems, or some simple library stuff 12:01:19 You can do them in either gForth or Mako Forth. They'll be about the same learning-wise 12:03:36 * Tod-Work goes back to his work task 12:08:35 to clarify, I think he has the arguments for ! in the wrong order. He means to say "dirvector 1 + @ trydir !" instead of "trydir dirvector 1+ @ !" 12:08:58 oh also '1+' may not be defined, that may be the error he's *seeing* but the ! stuff is probably going to crop up as soon as he runs it 12:17:56 yes, thanks.... the 1+ word seems to not be a problem 12:18:24 after fixing the ! mishap, now it loads fine, but I get a core dump, when trying to run it 12:19:35 maybe it'd be better indeed to start with something simpler on gforth, the errors on forth warrior seem to be a little obscure for me :) 12:20:04 ah, I also looked at the code for the forth-mode, I don't see a clear explanation of why it's ignoring my whitespace-style variable 12:22:56 (about the core dump, nevermind... I found the problem) 13:02:07 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-167-48.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 13:08:11 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 13:09:33 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 13:26:56 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 13:27:41 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:27:41 --- nick: kulp_ -> kulp 13:28:11 --- nick: kulp -> Guest64237 13:33:38 --- quit: Guest64237 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 13:34:01 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 13:34:49 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 13:38:57 --- join: ASau` (~user@p4FF96C29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) joined #forth 13:39:21 --- quit: kulp_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:40:37 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 13:41:51 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:51:28 --- quit: Mat2 (Quit: Verlassend) 13:51:51 --- quit: kulp_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:54:03 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 13:58:09 --- quit: kulp_ (Excess Flood) 13:58:40 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 14:01:22 --- quit: vectorman (Quit: Leaving) 14:05:08 --- quit: kulp_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:06:33 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 14:12:59 --- quit: kulp_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 14:13:58 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 14:17:03 --- quit: jevin (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:19:21 --- quit: kulp_ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14:20:55 --- join: kulp_ (~kulp@2605:6400:2:fed5:22:0:8c05:4ba) joined #forth 14:24:16 --- join: jevin_ (~jevin@72.12.217.221) joined #forth 14:30:19 --- quit: jevin_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:31:28 --- quit: kulp_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14:40:29 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 15:02:04 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 15:08:49 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 15:09:13 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 15:09:31 --- quit: kulp (Client Quit) 15:18:02 --- quit: berdario (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 15:28:24 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:29:13 --- join: berdario (~berdario@host170-164-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) joined #forth 15:55:34 --- quit: Tod-Work (Quit: Leaving) 16:35:14 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 16:37:39 berdario: was it you who had some questions about ForthWarrior earlier? 16:37:47 RodgerTheGreat: yes 16:37:53 how may I be of assistance? 16:38:23 I understood what I was doing wrong, and now I moved on... it's nice, but I have a somewhat general question: 16:38:41 sure 16:38:46 Some time ago I dabbled with ruby warrior... forth warrior seems quite different 16:38:55 in gameplay you mean? 16:39:29 specifically: if I remember correctly, in ruby warrior there was no way to know the current level... and you were given some methods to access the direction of certain things 16:39:50 in forth warrior, I can know the current level, but I don't know the position of nearby elements 16:40:09 yeah, the API is quite different. ForthWarrior is meant to be in the same spirit but it is a different game. 16:40:22 unless, obviously, I try to memorize in a data structure the shape of the level, and such things 16:40:31 yeah 16:40:53 memorize the shape of the level, is quite more daunting, but seems to be the only way to create a general AI good for every level 16:41:15 but maybe it's the wrong approach? I'd be better off special casing for the different levels? 16:41:41 no, the intent is that eventually you will write a pathfinding algorithm, rather than a heuristic-based solution 16:41:43 as a Forth newbie, I fear that the first approach might be too much for me ATM 16:41:53 yeah, it's a fairly steep learning curve 16:42:13 I've been working on some ideas for another game in the same vein which will provide a more gradual introduction 16:42:22 good :) 16:42:46 there's always room for improvement 16:43:11 btw, what do you mean exactly with "pathfinding rather than euristic"? 16:43:15 I mean... 16:43:29 it would be cool to have a little drag and drop interface for composing the programs. 16:43:30 like a flood fill or A* approach 16:43:41 with an euristic, I know that something "seems to lead me closer to the good solution" 16:43:49 then maybe a debugger that you can use to step through. 16:43:52 tangentstorm: I am distrustful of "visual programming" in most forms 16:43:55 and a rewind. 16:44:04 better debugging tools are always good though 16:44:17 RodgerTheGreat: hmm... think magnetic poetry. 16:44:30 I know what you're talking about 16:44:40 scratch, et al 16:44:42 for starter, I think instrutions on making use of the core dump might be useful 16:45:01 um what do you mean by core dump 16:45:05 (or maybe you intented it for debugging of forth warrior itself, and not as a tool for the players?) 16:45:27 if you're running the game via maker then yes, maker produces core dumps if the game itself crashes 16:45:41 those are for debugging mako applications 16:45:45 ah 16:45:54 although honestly they've never been terribly useful. :/ 16:46:00 from the README, maker seemed like the proper way to run it 16:46:13 maker is a totally appropriate way to run it 16:46:37 it's just also a general debugging environment 16:46:52 ah, ok s/appropriate/the way the end user should do/ 16:46:53 that's how I compile and test programs on makovm 16:47:21 berdario: there is also a standalone runtime which just accepts a precompiled rom 16:47:38 http://www.mediafire.com/download/qs64gczqkay3ma0/ForthWarrior.jar 16:47:46 ^ here's a precompiled jar with the standalone runtime 16:48:13 that's more how mako games are meant to be run by end users 16:49:31 btw, I was a little bit confused before: because last time I implemented an A* search, it included some heuristics... and moreover, before starting the path finding, I'd actually have to build the datastructure... I'm not even sure what would be appropriate of what would be a good ADT for such a problem (probably a graph, but given that I don't want to necessarily go on loops, a tree could be enough?) 16:50:19 and I'm not sure of how to encode that in Forth... probably by CREATEing something like an array of couple of tiles 16:50:31 the idea is to work up to it 16:50:45 yes, steep learning curve :) 16:50:51 thank you btw 16:51:08 no prob 16:51:18 I hope you're having some fun and learning a little about forth 16:52:43 yes, I'll try to alternate between this and haikus on forth salon :P 16:53:04 cool 16:53:10 what makes you interested in forth? 16:55:06 nothing particular... I'm in sort of a sabbatical year, I realized that I heard about Forth a lot of times, but I didn't have a clear idea of it, so I spent some time to look into it... basically, I stumbled upon forth warrior and ibniz in the time span of 2/3 days, and then the thing stuck 16:55:37 you're in for a whirlwind adventure 16:55:39 you know: repeated exposure grows familiarity and interest :) 16:56:12 as you learn you may find some of the other stuff in my repo interesting. Various compilers, data structures and so on implemented in forth 16:56:20 a small garbage collector, a logo interpreter, etc 16:56:24 some games 16:57:52 tangentstorm: make anything cool lately? 16:58:14 RodgerTheGreat: hrm... yeah, but it's not forthy yet: 16:58:22 http://tangentstorm.github.io/mr/ 16:58:39 I'm just about to get to the command loop. 16:58:55 object pascal 16:59:18 tangentstorm: spiffy 17:00:33 is it the same pascal shipped with the lazarus ide? (I don't know if there're dialects of pascal) 17:00:34 berdario: yep. :) i'm very slowly working on a pascal implementation in forth :) 17:00:54 yeah there are a bunch of dialects. lazarus comes with free pascal that supports a number of them. 17:00:59 you mean, a pascal compiler+runtime in forth? 17:01:06 yep 17:01:14 forth is actually pretty great for writing compilers 17:01:54 ah, yes... what is the logo interpreter? :P 17:02:01 http://tangentstorm.github.io/winfield-pascal-83.html 17:02:09 is it inside tools/ or games/ ? 17:02:23 ^ article from 1983 that i transcribed about a primitive pascal compiler in forth, and my start on a port to retro. 17:03:12 berdario: demos/Loko. 17:03:17 thanks 17:04:09 I've used Loko to teach introductory programming classes for kids 17:04:58 do you have a syllabus or something, RodgerTheGreat ? 17:05:19 tangentstorm: unfortunately I do not; I typically do these things from the hilt 17:05:57 I do have a syllabus and exercises from the summer camp thing I did with Processing 17:06:32 ah, probably you're already aware of it, but... isn't there a sleep function in Mako? 17:07:00 I refrain from keeping forth warrior always running, because it keeps a core always at 100% 17:07:00 you mean in Forth Warrior? Like just to wait for time to pass? 17:07:09 oh in the VM you mean 17:07:28 yes, line 906 of Warrior2.fs 17:07:57 I think that here it would be useful to throttle someway the execution 17:08:11 the VM itself does that 17:08:55 brb 17:16:33 for when you'll came back: 17:17:23 the VM itself "handles the input", or the VM itself "avoid busy loops" or something like that? 18:55:25 --- quit: berdario (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 18:55:25 --- quit: jyf (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 18:55:44 --- join: jyf (~root@42.96.194.66) joined #forth 19:32:33 --- join: cataska (~cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 19:44:05 --- quit: Nisstyre (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:46:30 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 20:14:16 ttmrichter: have found that cortex m0 got 2 stack pointer in the hardware 20:14:30 but i am not sure could they both used at once 20:22:16 --- quit: Onionnion (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20:35:31 yunfan: I haven't looked at the ARM ISA very closely so I can't comment just yet. 20:50:49 ttmrichter: a teacher are asking living cost problem at reddit /r/beijing, i ask him if he has considered the air pollution and send he a "goodluck" :] 20:53:08 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 20:55:54 I'd avoid all of the major cities, personally, on cost grounds. 20:56:26 Beijing could have the purest air in the world; an English teacher still won't make enough there to live comfortably. 20:58:50 ttmrichter: what about you , wuhan i think is 1 of 4 hottest city in china at summar 20:59:45 This is why I have an air conditioner. :) 21:11:07 i used avoid using air conditioner 21:13:32 You don't live in Wuhan, obviously. ;) 21:16:02 my hometown is huangshan , its the same latitude with wuhan 21:16:15 and the same hot when summer 21:27:16 It's probably not as humid, though. 21:27:36 Wuhan being at the confluence of two major rivers and in a bit of a bowl keeps the air not only hot, but intensely muggy. 21:48:54 yes not only you, when i went to college at hangzhou, my classmates from northern china also had the same feeling with you 21:49:49 but i am a sourthern chinese, bazinga 22:42:13 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 23:17:55 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.86.225) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.05.28