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16:20:22 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 16:48:57 --- part: Onionnion left #forth 18:04:30 --- join: spoofer (~cruella@72.10.28.164) joined #forth 18:44:23 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 19:05:51 --- quit: spoofer (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 19:49:19 is there any cortex m0 forth? 20:05:19 --- quit: Eth|cal (Read error: Operation timed out) 20:05:56 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 20:21:51 --- quit: Eth|cal (Read error: Operation timed out) 20:22:29 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 20:28:29 yunfan: There's a Jonesforth port to ARM that would probably work fine on an m0. 20:31:12 So, I've done a spot test of the major components of my new board. 20:31:30 It's nice to know there's an 8051 on it; I have at least three Forth implementations for the 8051 lying around. :) 20:39:48 --- quit: Eth|cal (Read error: Connection timed out) 20:40:23 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 20:40:40 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.149.47) joined #forth 20:48:25 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 20:51:15 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 21:04:52 ttmrichter: i just bought a stm32f0 discovery 21:05:14 and since my pc is too noisy, i am now use rpi as my host :[ 21:08:11 You're ... using the RPi as a host for embedded systems development? 21:08:20 How are you getting past the proprietary STLink thing? 21:16:26 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:17:40 --- quit: Eth|cal (Read error: Connection timed out) 21:17:58 yunfan: Also, why did you pick the F0 Discovery in particular? 21:18:11 It's kind of a ... bare-bones board, no? 21:18:58 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 21:18:59 The other STM32 Discovery boards have extra hardware (like assorted MEMS devices) you can play with and learn about, for example. 21:25:04 new board? :) 21:26:49 tangentstorm: yunfan just bought an STM32f0. 21:28:12 talking about this: 21:28:14 22:26:40 ttmrichter So, I've done a spot test of the major components of my new 21:28:16 board. 21:28:52 tangentstorm: Oh, my 8051+STM32+MAX II+Cyclone IV board. 21:30:06 the everything board(tm) :) 21:30:16 Moreso than I thought. 21:30:30 Originally I thought it was just the Cyclone IV and the STM32 with a display daughterboard. 21:31:20 But the display daughterboard also has an 8051 and a MAX II on it. 21:31:36 And circuitry for using the board as a digital oscilloscope. 21:31:43 And circuitry for using it as a waveform generator. 21:31:50 And circuitry for using it as a voltmeter. 21:31:53 ttmrichter: yep 21:31:59 And circuitry for interfacing with IR. 21:32:02 it has 8k ram and 64k flash 21:32:04 And and and and... 21:32:15 i think is the forth's target environment 21:32:19 yunfan: Why didn't you go with the F1, F3 or F4 discovery? 21:32:51 ttmrichter: my former leader who're also my friend recommends me using this as a arm intro 21:33:05 beside it has only 56 opcodes 21:33:07 Well it *is* distraction free. 21:33:13 i like concise arch 21:33:18 But it's harder to do interesting things with it. 21:33:25 ttmrichter: i was hoping it was an exciting new greenarrays development :) 21:33:32 The F1, F3 and F4 don't have a lot of extra stuff opcode wise either. 21:33:33 i have bought 16 beeper 21:33:42 want to do some sound generation 21:33:49 cool yunfan :) 21:34:13 tangentstorm: its just the target, i have so much to learn 21:35:30 ttmrichter: there is a confuse thing, i didnt see any linux toolchain of that board, people all talks about keil mdk 21:35:44 That's why I was wondering about the RPi thing. 21:36:00 There *is* a not-very-complete Linux toolchain. 21:36:06 well , if i have to do that, i just rebuild my PC :[ 21:36:07 But it's not great. 21:36:38 isnt there binutils for that board? 21:36:53 i think a binutils is enought to me 21:37:36 i dont like those embed c code which has too many symbol init makes it looks like a mess of macro asm 21:41:10 ttmrichter: hmm, seems gcc has that support already -mcpu=cortex-m0 -march=armv6s-m -mlittle-endian -mthumb 21:43:48 ok got linux toolchain and turtorial from github 21:44:12 Which one? 21:44:27 * ttmrichter would really like to stop firing up Windows in a VM to do this stuff. 21:45:37 https://github.com/texane/stlink 21:45:38 this 21:46:06 and the author made a turtorial includes how to install a toolchain and his tool 21:46:27 Yeah, that's one I downloaded a while ago but never got around to assessing. So I forgot about it until today. :) 21:46:27 the title is "Using STM32 discovery kits with open source tools" 21:46:56 ttmrichter: you got a stm32f0 too? 21:47:30 No, but I'm pretty sure that toolchain can be adapted to my kits. 21:48:13 ttmrichter: i thought you dont need toolchain, isnt forth masters just implement assembler in their own forth? 21:48:19 i have saw many forth has that 21:48:42 You still need some way to get it to the CPU. 21:48:51 Which is STLink in the case of the *Discovery boards. 21:49:56 (For that matter you need an assembler. :)) 21:50:48 hmm i remember my former leader made me a avr board by manual 21:51:08 Nowadays making a simple board is pretty trivial. 21:51:09 and for ISP things, he use another avr board as the usb ISP 21:51:26 why cant stm just provide usb isp 21:51:35 If I had a GA144, for example, I could have a friend of mine make a support board for it in a matter of a week and about 200RMB. 21:51:46 Yeah, that's a question I have too. 21:51:57 Or at the very least why not document the STLink wire format. 21:53:07 A lot of stuff in the embedded space ticks me off, actually. 21:53:15 yes, these mcu company even afford free suit for register, just dont wonder why they cant afford documents 21:54:03 A smart embedded company would build something that has a free toolchain. Maybe no IDE (they could still rely on third parties like Keil, et al for that) but basic command line tools should come with each environment. 21:54:17 And should be as platform-independent as possible. 21:54:26 ttmrichter: a classic example is many mp4, pmp device use an embed linux before android, but the factory tool what they provide is running on windows 21:54:59 i just cant understand how they customized their firmware(which is linux) on their work plarform -> windows 21:55:17 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 21:55:26 They used a GNU toolchain with a pretty front-end. 21:56:21 actually i dislike those hardware engineer who made things complexier 21:56:39 I feel the same way about software types. :) 21:56:50 Making things more complex than they need to be is, IMO, a hallmark of incompetence. 21:57:08 but the problem is you cant change a hardware :[ 21:57:58 for software, there are people finally could solve the problem, i remmeber a professior who has made serveral binary patch for windows software 21:58:06 because he cant got the source 21:59:18 oops i got a people who has the same need with me https://github.com/mgottschlag/rpi-swd 22:00:28 In my case, I think I'm going to get a Mini-ITX system for my embedded development. 22:00:40 Something small I can stash away to one side and pull out when I want to work on embedded things. 22:01:24 ttmrichter: i want to got those too, just dont know which i could choose 22:01:37 i dont want to throw my current cpu, i7 2600 22:01:58 so my choice was limited to those mini itx board support LGA1155 22:01:59 For embedded development only you don't need much in the way of CPU horsepower. 22:02:08 Just get the cheapest Mini-ITX you can find. 22:02:19 OK, anybody here know how to use git? 22:02:27 sure. 22:02:29 what's up? 22:02:35 and another reason i use rpi is i am wonder if i wired the wrong line which could made my board ruined 22:03:04 ttmrichter: i use git. what's up? 22:03:07 tangentstorm: I forked a project on github and made a local repo based on my fork. 22:03:12 ttmrichter: well then you need a mini itx board with atm inside 22:03:17 The upstream has changed since then. 22:03:17 ttmrichter: ok 22:03:28 How do I go about getting those changes into my forked repo? 22:03:34 pull merge commit push ? 22:03:52 How do I pull from the other repo? 22:04:18 ttmrichter: git remote add upstream 22:04:43 ttmrichter: git fetch upstream master 22:04:49 or upstream 22:05:01 ttmrichter: git rebase upstream master 22:05:08 Ugh. 22:05:10 Rebase. 22:05:16 well 22:05:18 Is there a way to do this without rewriting history? 22:05:21 sure 22:05:26 you just merge 22:05:38 but you'll have to do any conflict resolution on your own 22:06:21 once you do git fetch you can use git diff to see the differences before you try to merge. 22:07:08 Argh. Now I can't push to my own freakin' repo. 22:07:14 God I hate Git! 22:07:24 why can't you push? 22:07:41 Because Git sucks? 22:07:42 fatal: remote error: 22:07:42 You can't push to git://github.com/ttmrichter/stlink.git 22:07:42 Use https://github.com/ttmrichter/stlink.git 22:08:16 git:// is read-only on github 22:08:39 were you able to push before?? 22:08:48 Never tried on this particular repo. 22:09:10 yeah... there are three links.. you grabed the ssh read-only one instead of the ssh one 22:09:54 git 's cmdline paramaters is bad 22:09:59 you can change it with git remote set-url 22:10:00 OK, and now it wants a username and password. 22:10:03 yeah 22:10:04 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 22:10:06 that's why i use hg as daily work 22:10:13 I use Fossil. 22:10:17 for ssh you have to set up a public key 22:10:31 I'm pretty sure I have one set up. 22:10:35 but git's supporting features is so rich ,recently i use git for my private job 22:10:36 git drove me nuts for the longest time but eventually i just got used to it 22:11:08 hg is better, but the branch features is too bad 22:11:26 I swear, Linus went out of his way to make the single worst UI in history with Git. 22:12:41 well i dont think its his fault, i guess at the beginning they have a nice design parameters 22:12:58 but with more and more features request, they apply many hack 22:13:05 Git was ugly from day 1. 22:13:09 which would add paramaters randomly 22:13:11 It was a hastily-written hack. 22:13:14 And it shows. 22:13:27 that's the hacking philosophy 22:14:15 Well, one of two ways to use "hacking" anyway. 22:15:08 Hmmm... I wonder if there's a USB Blaster interface for Linux anywhere. 22:15:39 Hah! Altera actually supports Linux! 22:15:46 ttmrichter: why not minix3 :] 22:16:17 I never managed to get an instance of Minix3 working in VirtualBox which made me loathe to install it on real hardware. 22:16:26 i checked they are hiring arm developer for porting it to arm 22:16:35 i hope i could use it on my rpi sonner 22:17:12 well its simple and small ,i like this type of stuffs 22:17:30 it wont made me fear compare to linux's kernel 22:17:57 and luckily many of my daily tool could works on it 22:24:16 Yeah, I like constrained environments better myself. 22:24:21 First, it makes you focus on essentials. 22:24:32 Second, when you get something done with it it's a real sense of accomplishment. 22:27:04 maybe i could bought a mac mini 22:27:16 its cheapest model is about 4k- RMB 22:27:28 is that a lot? 22:27:32 You can get a really nice Mini-ITX system for ~1000RMB. 22:27:39 RodgerTheGreat: Yes. 22:28:06 I understand that Apple hardware is pretty expensive outside the US 22:28:37 RodgerTheGreat: nope its not a lot 22:29:03 It's four times what an equivalently-powered non-Mac would cost. 22:29:05 That's a lot in my books. 22:29:06 I've been using a fairly recent mac mini at work and it's a real champ 22:29:25 right, right, we should all be using raspberry pis 22:29:36 it would be much more cost effective I'm sure 22:29:53 An RPi isn't equivalent in power to a Mac Mini. 22:29:55 ttmrichter: my former leader, yesterday when we have dinner together, talks they are build a arm cluster 22:30:01 which have 3k nodes 22:31:08 That would be nice. :) 22:31:10 ttmrichter: for desktops you can make the argument that macs are overpriced, but their laptops are quite competitive when you compare specs, and the build quality is excellent 22:31:10 Can I have one? 22:31:45 I have a macbook air and it is hands-down the best laptop I've ever owned 22:31:59 and it was only a little over a grand 22:32:07 Oh, I agree that their kit is NICE. 22:32:16 I just find them overpriced and I find the company itself repugnant. :) 22:32:55 yep 22:33:11 i like small device's cluster 22:33:12 as if lenovo or dell are portraits of fair business practices and ethics 22:33:15 with a terminal :] 22:33:24 RodgerTheGreat: That is a straw man. 22:33:31 so is yours 22:33:40 in china years ago, net cafe like to use harddisk less system 22:34:05 4 or 6 clients shares a host 22:34:16 How is my saying I find the company repugnant in any way a straw man? 22:41:35 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 22:45:38 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 22:49:42 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 22:57:49 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 23:02:06 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 23:13:04 --- join: Bahman1 (~Bahman@2.146.43.66) joined #forth 23:15:02 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:25:53 ttmrichter: can i just use the mini itx board without a case? 23:36:58 Well, it's just a motherboard, so very probably. 23:40:46 i just wonder it would be too hot after running for times 23:41:42 That would depend on a large variety of factors including what clock rate you choose and the CPU. 23:41:57 But cases are dirt cheap. 23:42:02 I've seen decent ones for 80RMB. 23:59:03 that's not for mini itx 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.05.27