00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.03.03 00:24:08 --- join: lazyden (~lazyden@bb121-7-14-16.singnet.com.sg) joined #forth 00:37:15 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 00:53:55 --- part: sw2wolf left #forth 01:13:16 --- quit: dzho (Read error: Operation timed out) 01:13:24 --- join: dzho (~deejoe@quercus.etrumeus.com) joined #forth 01:43:45 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 02:01:50 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 02:22:12 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.176) joined #forth 02:43:51 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 03:16:17 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 03:27:29 --- quit: impomatic (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 03:41:52 --- join: protist (~protist@210.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 03:47:33 --- quit: JDat () 04:58:54 --- quit: protist (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 05:23:58 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 05:45:03 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 05:59:32 --- join: dessos (~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:59:37 --- join: epicmonkey_ (~epicmonke@188.134.41.176) joined #forth 05:59:37 --- quit: dessos_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:01:39 --- quit: epicmonkey (*.net *.split) 06:01:40 --- quit: DocPlatypus (*.net *.split) 06:12:41 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@98.195.26.149) joined #forth 06:53:40 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 06:54:16 --- quit: tgunr_ (Quit: Nity nite) 06:54:46 --- quit: lazyden (Quit: lazyden) 06:59:25 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-142.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 07:14:39 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 07:50:05 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: leaving) 07:50:17 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 07:53:29 --- quit: nighty- (Client Quit) 07:53:44 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 08:17:28 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@22.120.125.91.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 08:28:37 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: leaving) 08:35:02 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 08:36:31 --- quit: epicmonkey_ (Quit: Leaving) 08:36:50 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.176) joined #forth 08:56:36 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-76-199-146-66.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 09:00:37 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 09:18:18 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 09:32:06 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 10:22:11 --- join: kumul (~mool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:46:06 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 11:03:12 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:29:32 --- quit: Onionnion (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:32:59 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 12:41:03 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-76-228-195-154.dsl.milwwi.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 12:42:43 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 12:43:32 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 12:49:26 Hi all 12:49:43 hello 12:50:18 I noticed some chat about C H Ting's zen / eForth doc... 12:50:51 I don't know about the book, but I did find a tutorial he wrote. It was strangely formatted, so I tried to clean it up: http://employees.org/~wjhun/zeneForth.pdf 12:50:56 ... in case anyone is interested ... 12:51:51 Aside from formatting it is unchanged. I don't know whether or not he intended it to be public domain... 12:52:00 nice, backer :) 12:52:08 thanks!! 12:52:31 Yeah, that tutorial is great! 12:53:31 --- join: tgunr_ (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 12:54:27 I have been working on a derivative of eForth for 32-bit uCs... 12:54:57 cool :) 12:55:11 like arduino? 12:55:16 pic32 / MIPS 12:55:26 fun 12:55:31 ... to start 12:56:03 I've been meaning to get in touch with Mr. Ting. His work has been an inspiration... 13:00:08 yeah. this was one of the better forth articles i've seen. it would be nice to get it reformatted for the web. 13:00:17 in fact, same for a lot of the old stuff on the fig-forth site. 13:01:49 obviously it's all on the web already, but so much of the forth literature is poorly laid out or stuck in pdf scans of hard copies and un-indexed by search engines. 13:02:26 or trapped somewhere in blocks 13:02:28 backer: Thank You for the link! 13:02:37 saved to local hdd 13:02:51 JDat: and thanks for pointing out eforth to begin with :) 13:03:07 I will read it as soon as wine wil go out of me :D 13:03:13 well 13:03:21 eforth seem interesting to me 13:03:27 i am beginner in forth 13:03:35 RodgerTheGreat: that too. 13:04:02 I an trying to write my forth in gambas just to understand internals and porting details 13:04:15 i actually really like the block concept. 64 x 16 just seems like a nice, readable chunk size. 13:04:53 low leavel forth words are clear. Now I need to compile high level forth. I hope that I will do it on neade sunny day. :) 13:05:09 I am a little confused about the eForth license. C H Ting writes that his implementations are public-domain... 13:05:15 64x16 is good, but remember tha trehe are file systems 13:05:18 ... yet Bill Muench writes on his site, "Permission is granted for non-commercial use, provided this notice is included. 13:05:24 Contact Bill Muench concerning commercial use." 13:05:42 it is also good to read data from existing file systems 13:06:15 JDat, tangent: You're most welcome. 13:06:29 do not stuck with low level block reading 13:07:42 huh. jus saw that pdf... :( 13:07:46 the same as http://www.offete.com/files/zeneForth.htm 13:07:50 :( 13:08:02 but anyway than You! 13:08:06 but anyway thank You! 13:08:28 hi RodgerTheGreat 13:08:32 and folks 13:08:36 It's a shame this book isn't available in English http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/%E5%B5%8C%E5%85%A5%E5%BC%8F%E7%B3%BB%E7%B5%B1_%E4%BD%BF%E7%94%A8eForth.html?id=9A5S7hTOqykC&redir_esc=y 13:08:53 hey dto 13:09:08 I saw additional text about ZEN and eForth philosofy in ZIP file someware. 13:10:01 JDat: Yes! Now I recall - I wanted to format a print-friendly version... 13:10:18 Maybe I should write "The Tao of Itsy Forth" :-P 13:11:20 impomatic: :D agree! 13:11:44 there are additional teck regarding zeneforth 13:11:45 http://books.google.co.uk/books/about/%E5%B5%8C%E5%85%A5%E5%BC%8F%E7%B3%BB%E7%B5%B1_%E4%BD%BF%E7%94%A8eForth.html?id=9A5S7hTOqykC&redir_esc=y 13:11:57 this is ZIp file I menotned earlier. 13:12:00 the zen and eforth book is on the fig site 13:12:19 I can't remember whre I downloadet this ZIP file 13:12:36 jdat: http://www.forth.org/eforth.html under the zenforth link 13:12:46 tangentstorm: full version? 13:13:05 i think so. it's in some word processor format though so i didn't really try to read it. 13:15:07 my nokia e52 LCD id failed. I can't read this now. PS: Usually I am reading about forh in night from mobile phone... :D 13:15:50 well 13:16:01 whats up RodgerTheGreat , hows yer games projects goiung. 13:16:08 seems that "zen.eForth" is THAT file 13:16:35 i linked to your project on irc somewhere last night, we were talking about 2600 games and i talked about your Yar clone :) 13:16:41 JDat: Yeah, it looks like the more complete text, including text from the zeneForth.htm link... 13:17:02 dto: oh, really? That's cool. 13:17:08 i forget who now, tho. 13:17:11 :) 13:17:34 i'm on a couple of new channels these days (including this one) so all the nicks havent settled into my brain yet. 13:17:58 at the moment I'm tinkering with a little s-expression parser and prettyprinter 13:18:27 ooh. s expressions :) 13:19:52 backer: what does mean that nonprintable characters? How to parse all this to standard text or markdown or html? 13:22:51 on geeks! it is 23:20 local time. I am drunk! I have damaged phone's LCD. Life sucks and tomorrow is dammed working day! I am leaving Your great party! Sorry for that! Bye! 13:26:45 JDat: I don't know. I can read the text (amongst unreadable garbage) in AbiWord. 'antiword' says "MacWord: fast saved documents are not supported yet" 13:27:33 JDat: Have a good night! 13:27:53 google docs might be able to do something with it. 13:28:30 or maybe just some kind of rtf2html thing... 13:30:27 In theory I can read "zen.eForth" with plain text editor (ProgNotepad2), but what is in nonprintable characers? I must to see that "hidden text" to get full picture... 13:33:23 The last post on this page doesn't sound too encouraging: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/converting-from-word-for-mac-doc-to-txt-476814/ 13:33:53 We'll just have to find someone with an old, running version of MacWord. :) 13:36:03 I'll write C.H. Ting; I have other questions for him, anyway. I'll report if I hear back... 13:37:11 cool. good luck, backer :) 13:38:24 Thank You backer! I will check #forh log regarding Your results! 13:38:58 Anyway.. I want bare metal forth on raspbery pi with GPU support... 13:44:17 I have bare-metal eForth running on a PIC32MX795H... but it's a long, long way from being complete. ;) 13:46:51 backer: complete? it isn't important! Show me Your kung-fu! (C) morpheus from The Matrix! :D 13:47:56 :o) 13:50:17 C.H. Ting basically did it all. Check out "EF-MIPS.S" in his EFORTHMP.ZIP. The rest is my horrible kludge of low-level bringup code. 13:50:44 there were two authors of eforth... 13:50:46 I got it running first as a userspace process under RetroBSD (2.11BSD ported to PIC32...see retrobsd.org) 13:51:16 the other author is here, and he has a number of eforth ports: http://www.calcentral.com/~forth/forth/ 13:51:28 tangent: Yes, that's true. I was thinking of only the MIPS port... 13:52:01 ...and forgetting about the forth itself! 13:52:45 Ting was the one who explained it though. :) 13:56:10 You can forget the .pdf; here's the original: http://www.offete.com/files/zeneForth.doc 13:57:05 nice 14:02:50 zeneForth.doc? the same as in HTML :( in "zen.eForth" is much more... 14:02:52 IMHO 14:05:31 JDat: yeah, zen.eforth is a whole history of forth and a history of zen. 14:05:53 this document is about a particular implementation of eforth 14:06:00 he's written a bunch of different things. 14:09:13 Is this C.H. Ting? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK8uofOxdcw 14:10:09 huh. looks like it :) 14:10:11 --- join: _spt_ (~in@host-92-12-222-166.as43234.net) joined #forth 14:10:11 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 14:10:11 --- join: _spt_ (~in@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 14:17:49 --- quit: JDat () 14:31:31 i re-built my color scheme for b4: http://imgur.com/gallery/4eVYiSA/new 14:33:05 dto: this is the gist of it: http://hastebin.com/raw/sucosefeqa.fs 14:34:53 RodgerTheGreat: will have to look a bit later. 14:35:07 in the middle of a couple things, 14:35:19 it is quite short but relies on a number of other definitions to work 14:35:31 working on simplifying the dependencies to make it more standalone 14:35:53 and I need to implement a basic symbol table 14:36:39 you wouldn't just use the forth dictionary? 14:37:31 --- quit: tgunr_ (Quit: Nity nite) 14:37:32 normally a good idea but this is for my bootstrap compiler 14:41:31 oh 14:42:13 what are you bootstrapping? 14:42:31 perhaps a little scheme 14:48:50 cool 15:03:08 --- quit: obobo (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 15:09:37 --- join: tgunr_ (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 15:10:59 RodgerTheGreat: cool. what're you gonna do with scheme 15:11:11 I dunno 15:14:21 I was sort of thinking about doing a writeup about how one might go about implementing a lisp-like language in forth, and I'm vacillating between writing it in my own dialect and trying to get it working in gforth while attempting to simplify it as much as possible 15:15:46 hmm. why not use your dialect? then you can make it work with your game engine :) 15:16:19 the only issue I have with that is it makes it less useful as a learning example for others 15:16:33 ah i see. 15:17:28 here is the skeleton I have for a gforth version which is not garbage collected: http://hastebin.com/raw/siqayohemi.fs 15:17:49 again, this is just the parser/printer not an eval 15:18:06 --- join: obobo (~chatzilla@dyn-76-75-122-163.nexicom.net) joined #forth 15:19:34 interesting. i'm slowly being able to read forth 15:27:52 I guess I should implement the gforth version such that you have a parsing word like ":sexpr" and then hijack the input stream 15:28:33 then I can take advantage of some of forth's parser and avoid doing my own number parsing, etc from scratch 15:29:12 and I might be able to use dictionary entries to store symbols, but I'll have to be careful so that they're done in a portable way 15:49:50 --- part: _spt_ left #forth 15:54:00 --- join: lazyden (~lazyden@58.185.121.38) joined #forth 16:28:06 --- join: kumul (~mool@76.26.237.95) joined #forth 16:52:50 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 16:53:49 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 17:07:47 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 17:07:47 --- nick: tgunr_ -> tgunr 17:10:09 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Nity nite) 17:12:31 --- join: tgunr (~davec@66.249.166.10) joined #forth 17:56:51 --- join: kumul (~mool@76.26.237.95) joined #forth 17:58:15 --- join: sw2wolf (~czsq888@171.214.172.117) joined #forth 18:22:51 --- join: kumool (~mool@76.26.237.95) joined #forth 18:24:30 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 18:34:57 --- join: mo (~mool@76.26.237.95) joined #forth 18:35:20 --- nick: mo -> Guest5145 18:38:15 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 18:45:09 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:47:47 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 18:48:15 --- quit: Guest5145 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 18:49:52 --- quit: Onionnion (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 18:51:42 --- join: Guest5145 (~mool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:05:16 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 19:07:23 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 19:37:41 --- quit: Eth|cal (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 19:37:42 somone has been busy the past couple days: http://www.reddit.com/r/Forth/ 19:56:06 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 19:58:19 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 20:04:57 --- join: Eth|cal (~sam@ppp59-167-172-238.static.internode.on.net) joined #forth 20:16:13 --- quit: Guest5145 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 20:17:33 --- join: mrout (~mrout@unaffiliated/mrout) joined #forth 20:43:53 --- join: Guest5145 (~mool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:59:22 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 21:00:15 --- join: kumool (~mool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 21:03:09 --- quit: Guest5145 (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 21:05:52 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@98.195.26.149) joined #forth 21:23:12 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 21:45:20 --- quit: DocPlatypus (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:48:10 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 21:49:01 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 22:14:14 --- part: sw2wolf left #forth 22:33:28 --- join: protist (~protist@116.226.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz) joined #forth 22:33:53 protist, hello there 22:34:00 mrout: hey haha 22:34:07 mrout: this is rediculus hahaha 22:34:38 protist is in one of my lectures, I looked over his shoulder and saw his username and asked "do you use freenode?". I had recognised the name. 22:34:46 for anyone slightly interested. 22:34:49 :D 22:34:54 * kulp is slightly interested 22:35:14 protist, read Threaded Interpretive Languages yet? 22:35:24 i found some interesting things on Forth data structures if anyone is interested 22:35:30 mrout: nope :) 22:35:53 mrout: i am not sure that i will...i may go head first into a direct threaded Forth or something at some point 22:36:11 protist wrote a FORTH implementation in x86 ASM. 22:36:17 mrout: there are a few flavors of Forth...the one i made is indirect threaded 22:36:28 protist, indeed 22:37:34 mrout: today i have been playing with a memory allocater for Forth...i am not far, just playing with ideas 22:37:49 mrout: after that i may look at GC algorithms or something 22:38:10 haha what school are you guys in? 22:38:22 tangentstorm: University of Canterbury in New Zealand 22:38:32 what he said 22:38:54 this may actually be the largest congregation of forth programmers in the world, outside of forth, inc and greenarrays. :) 22:39:04 haha 22:39:17 yeah...this two man congregation is quite exciiting 22:39:24 i think we need Canterbury conventions 22:39:34 :) 22:39:59 mrout: what are you working on recently? 22:40:06 protist, forth-wise or in general? 22:40:25 mrout: in general...Forth not excluded 22:41:17 I've been working on a sort-of-toolchain for dcpu.com/dcpu16, including assembler, linker and emulator. as yet unfinished. also a unix-like kernel running on that cpu. 22:41:33 mrout: woah..i just realized...we could actually work as a team on Forth things :D 22:42:00 nice :) 22:42:01 protist, I haven't done a lot of FORTH in the last 6-12 months. But I do like it. 22:42:25 i'm no expert...i like it as a paradigm shift...it tests my understanding of what i am coding 22:42:43 if i want to know how well i understand a problem...i code it in Forth 22:42:45 this is probably the most active this channel has been in years. 22:43:05 you should have seen when there was one girl that was coming by 22:43:12 she had this channel alive for a few weeks 22:43:26 haha 22:43:32 tangentstorm: you remember that? 22:43:37 no 22:43:43 tangentstorm: `anannie' ....where did she go? 22:43:45 girls? in #forth? 22:43:51 on freenode, even? 22:43:55 mrout: s/girls/girl/ 22:43:56 before my time. 22:44:01 that aren't that horrible mod in ##c? 22:44:07 mrout: 2 of them 22:44:15 mrout: 2 horrible women mods in ##c 22:44:20 lawl 22:44:26 mrout: i only got on there just now to see if you were there 22:45:31 i also have some crazy ideas for Forth at some point 22:45:43 do them! 22:45:43 i wont mention them aloud lest someone beat me to them 22:45:49 :) 22:45:54 * mrout protist you can mention them to me 22:45:59 these will take a week or two dedicated time 22:46:09 kk ill pm :) 22:46:21 impomatic would probably yawn and do it in a night 22:56:03 * impomatic is a slow programmer. Everything takes months :-) 22:56:12 impomatic: :P 22:56:22 impomatic: your project euler exploits make me think otherwise 22:56:30 impomatic: that humbles me to this day 22:58:04 Just a quick hack! I prefer to write clean, tidy code. I'll spend ages thinking about the best way to do it. 22:58:20 does anyone know of any good forth material on algorithms or data structures?...i have been accreting material on this 22:58:35 impomatic: lol :) 22:59:45 the jsar archive has all kinds of good stuff. 22:59:52 tangentstorm: jsar? 23:00:11 the journal of something about research? 23:00:12 hmm.. 23:00:20 link me :) 23:00:44 jfar 23:00:53 http://soton.mpeforth.com/flag/jfar/ 23:01:16 ah thankyou very much :) 23:01:26 either it's not all all online, or not all the links are there 23:01:45 i think maybe if you look at the author links there are more articles than if you look at the table of contents 23:02:07 not 100% sure about that. 23:02:38 also there's another publication with a bunch of scanned pdfs on the fig forth site 23:02:50 hey forth esperanto 23:03:10 http://soton.mpeforth.com/flag/jfar/authors-M.html <- esperanto, under richard miller 23:04:05 lawl 23:11:58 http://www.forth.org/fd/FDcover.html <- forth dimensions, the other publication. 23:12:17 this one is more general-programming-in-forth and not so academic 23:13:33 tangentstorm: so much stuff :D 23:14:47 yeah. i'd like to re-arrange it better. 23:49:00 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:56:03 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@98.195.26.149) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.03.03