00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.02.06 00:20:04 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 00:39:55 --- quit: crcx (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 00:40:53 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@90.84.144.138) joined #forth 00:41:07 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 00:45:13 --- part: sw2wolf left #forth 02:16:22 --- join: crcx (~crcx@li125-93.members.linode.com) joined #forth 02:58:27 --- join: rbarraud__ (~rbarraud@202-169-221-121.worldnet.co.nz) joined #forth 03:04:26 --- quit: rbarraud__ (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 03:52:03 --- join: derdon (~derdon@82.113.106.202) joined #forth 04:12:09 --- join: ttmrichter_ (~ttmrichte@59.63.160.82) joined #forth 04:19:50 --- quit: ttmrichter_ (Quit: Quit) 04:22:06 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 04:32:06 --- nick: tangentsleep -> tangentstorm 05:31:47 --- quit: Inode (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 05:33:31 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 05:35:15 --- join: Inode (~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net) joined #forth 05:45:21 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 05:50:16 --- quit: Inode (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:00:59 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@sabis.ru) joined #forth 06:11:30 --- quit: derdon (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 07:09:39 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-216-83.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 07:58:32 --- join: Tod-Work (~thansmann@host-25.pl1071005.fiber.net) joined #forth 08:31:03 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:22:48 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.97.161) joined #forth 10:51:56 RodgerTheGreat: Five.fs cracks me up :) 10:52:04 :) 10:52:09 Mako is a pretty cool little game engine 10:52:17 thanks 10:52:23 i'm trying them out alphabetically. haven't gotten to forth warrior yet. :) 10:52:47 I suppose that's sensible 10:54:05 i'm surprised how responsive they are 10:54:19 mako needs to be on the web 10:54:39 a friend of mine briefly fiddled with the idea of writing a javascript VM implementation 10:54:45 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 10:56:05 --- join: ncv (~quassel@79.114.79.37) joined #forth 10:56:05 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 10:56:05 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 10:57:03 tangentstorm: since most of the games are quite simple, the VM performs no dynamic allocation and the VM generally JITs well you can get surprisingly good performance 10:57:23 most of those games are playable on a small J2ME device I have 10:59:01 RodgerTheGreat: Warrior/Warrior.fs complains about unknown word start-level 10:59:11 if you're launching games from maker, you can use F5 to see an "average VM ticks/frame" 10:59:21 tangentstorm: ah, yeah- that one works a bit differently 10:59:38 in that version of forth warrior you would actually compile your player along with the game and run it 10:59:53 to see how Warrior works, execute BasicHero.fs 11:01:53 "Warrior" was the original prototype, "Warrior2" is the newer, much better version 11:09:05 oh interesting. 11:09:28 the new version has a built-in compiler, etc 11:09:35 i didn't grok that the code you write is controlling the hero. that's cool. 11:09:43 are there checkpoints? 11:09:53 for which one? 11:10:14 either i guess. :) 11:10:23 in the original you can control which level you start on. In the new one you can play the whole thing through or do a test run on any single level 11:10:31 i did the warrior2 one interactively. 11:13:36 this is pretty awesome. 11:15:13 --- quit: kulp (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 11:17:14 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 11:23:19 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 11:28:43 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Nity nite) 11:30:29 tangentstorm: also amusingly we were doing some benchmarks earlier and the java-based reference VM can execute simple programs something like twice as fast as ruby, and the higher-performance (but non-JITing) makoVM is about four times as fast 11:30:35 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 11:31:21 microbenchmarks, so probably not very indicative of real-world performance, but I think it says Mako's performance is at least within an order of magnitude of popular scripting languages 11:33:32 :) 11:34:14 well i want to get a high-speed retro vm working in javascript. 11:35:05 there's already a javascript implementation for ngaro. I tried to optimize it and wound up breaking it instead.... then i went back and wrote some tests. :) 11:35:31 but it's still broken, and the working version doesn't support colored text. 11:35:46 ngaro doesn't to my knowledge support sound, though, and last time I looked its graphics support was very rudimentary 11:35:48 but: i'd like to get your forth dialect runing on ngaro. 11:35:51 hey forthpeeps 11:35:55 whats up? 11:36:03 tangentstorm: that could be possible 11:36:09 RodgerTheGreat: yes that's true but it has pluggable devices. 11:36:17 you'd basically just have to emulate the Mako graphics hardware 11:36:37 in a few cases porting would be difficult because I do things Ngaro can't like relocate the stacks 11:36:47 oh? 11:36:48 hey dto 11:36:49 why? 11:36:56 oh hey dto 11:37:10 tangentstorm: multitasking. None of the games use it for that. 11:37:36 i've been thinking about adding multiple stacks and queues as external devices in ngaro. 11:37:42 but Forth Warrior (the new one) manipulates the stack pointers in its error handling routines to implement 'abort' 11:37:58 and Loko does stack smashing to implement TCO 11:38:21 I think Ngaro -> Mako bytecode would be reasonably easy though 11:38:34 is there a JS implementation of Mako? 11:38:45 not a functioning one 11:39:16 :) then for me it's easier to go the other way, just because i'm already invested in ngaro... 11:39:29 but i don't mind hacking it to support the features mako needs. 11:40:06 i've got a little collection of changes i've been wanting to experiment with anyway... was thinking about creating a new thing that was just called retro-vm or something. 11:40:18 basically the bytecode is very similar between the two, and the core difference is that Mako stores all registers and both stacks in main memory, whereas Ngaro maintains a strong separation between stacks and data space 11:40:40 and their respective approaches for IO obviously 11:41:28 one of my original goals for mako was to make it easy to play with self-modifying code, even though I haven't taken advantage of that much 11:42:14 i don't think the stack thing will be a big deal. i'd been thinking about multi-tasking too for a while. 11:43:10 there's a guy in #retro that wants to make a MUD and we were talking about implementing multi-tasking a while back... it's sort of been on the back burner in my mind for a while. at the time i didn't actually have the forth skills to implement it. 11:44:15 the idea of using queues as external devices is partially to support multiple VMs communicating with each other, or also to allow multi tasking 11:44:30 RodgerTheGreat: did you paint your game graphics? 11:44:52 think pipes: send all your output to the queue, then read from the queue in another vm or just later on in time 11:45:06 also I came up with a really clean approach for implementing a softsynth for Mako which does a multitasking thing by relocating the RStack: https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Mako/blob/master/demos/AudioKernel/AudioKernel.fs 11:45:19 fantazo: yeah, I do all my own pixel art 11:47:39 RodgerTheGreat, you also might note on the benchmarks that in the I/O benchmarks the file I/O was probably a huge bottleneck of any of them. 11:48:24 well sure 11:48:37 and GHC blew everything else out of the water 11:49:57 we should check a more calculation intense thing sometime 11:50:23 yeah it would be interesting to implement MD5 or something like that 11:50:42 then you have both IO overhead and meaningful computation 11:51:01 but mako not having bitshifts makes some things like that unnecessarily expensive 11:53:42 RodgerTheGreat: this is cool. I didn't draw since a long time anything :-/ damn... I actually wasn't that bad. 11:54:15 it's all a matter of practice, man 11:54:58 RodgerTheGreat: yeah it is and it is all a matter of motivation. 11:55:17 no motivation, no movement. 11:57:14 there is this thing of long term motivation, you have a big picture in the future and you want to get there. but then the actual tricky thing is the motivation for doing the next step. 11:57:46 just my realisation, after I started playing a music instrument. 11:58:40 which I started last year and I'm actually not that bad with it. 12:05:12 --- join: kbmaniac_ (~dave@host86-157-24-246.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 12:05:13 --- quit: kbmaniac__ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:40:55 --- join: ASau` (~user@176.4.52.241) joined #forth 12:44:12 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 12:48:13 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 12:50:07 --- join: kbmaniac (~dave@host86-157-24-246.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 12:55:25 --- join: ncv_ (~quassel@79.114.83.87) joined #forth 12:58:01 --- quit: ncv (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 13:05:16 --- quit: kbmaniac (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 13:13:07 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 13:26:11 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@90.84.144.75) joined #forth 13:32:38 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 13:35:26 --- quit: sirdancealot1 (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 13:37:34 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-167-191.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 13:39:15 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Nity nite) 13:48:10 --- join: sirdancealot1 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) joined #forth 13:52:04 --- quit: ncv_ (Remote host closed the connection) 13:52:54 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 13:55:40 --- quit: Tod-Work (Read error: Connection timed out) 13:58:10 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:58:26 --- join: Tod-Work (~thansmann@host-25.pl1071005.fiber.net) joined #forth 14:07:16 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 14:07:31 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 14:19:40 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 14:19:58 --- quit: Tod-Work (Read error: Operation timed out) 14:21:52 --- join: Tod-Work (~thansmann@host-25.pl1071005.fiber.net) joined #forth 14:25:06 --- quit: Tod-Work (Client Quit) 15:02:00 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Nity nite) 15:03:43 --- join: Tod-Work (~thansmann@host-25.pl1071005.fiber.net) joined #forth 15:40:49 --- join: jdavidboyd (~user@72.185.97.240) joined #forth 15:41:44 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 15:43:14 --- quit: JDat () 15:46:33 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@96.sub-70-195-64.myvzw.com) joined #forth 15:46:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 15:54:10 --- quit: Tod-Work (Quit: Leaving) 16:06:27 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:09:07 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:09:21 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:12:20 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:18:21 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 16:32:51 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Nity nite) 16:36:44 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 18:05:45 --- join: sw2wolf (~czsq888@171.216.97.211) joined #forth 18:07:46 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Nity nite) 18:32:15 --- quit: ASau (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:33:10 --- join: ASau (~user@176.4.52.241) joined #forth 19:25:29 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:29:08 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 19:30:15 --- part: sw2wolf left #forth 20:16:09 --- quit: kumool (Quit: Leaving) 20:41:55 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 21:04:23 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@86.98.18.206) joined #forth 21:31:20 --- quit: Onionnion (Quit: Leaving) 21:44:47 --- quit: sirdancealot1 (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 21:57:14 --- join: sirdancealot1 (~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz) joined #forth 21:59:38 --- quit: djinni (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 22:00:23 --- join: djinni (~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com) joined #forth 22:31:10 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 23:43:10 --- quit: segher (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 23:46:19 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 23:57:23 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.02.06