00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.01.30 00:02:37 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.176) joined #forth 00:19:01 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 00:26:15 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 01:33:49 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 01:44:51 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 02:31:31 --- join: kbmaniac (~dave@host86-182-38-231.range86-182.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 03:31:32 --- quit: kbmaniac (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 03:31:39 --- quit: tttttt (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )) 03:39:16 --- join: kbmaniac- (~androirc@host86-182-38-231.range86-182.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 03:45:31 --- quit: epicmonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 03:45:50 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 03:54:26 --- quit: karswell (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 04:39:10 --- join: derk_ (~derk@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:03:56 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 06:21:31 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:38:11 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@244.sub-70-194-133.myvzw.com) joined #forth 06:38:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 07:22:27 --- quit: kbmaniac- (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )) 07:23:42 --- join: kbmaniac_ (~androirc@host86-182-38-231.range86-182.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 07:29:13 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@148.54.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 07:44:35 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 07:50:33 --- quit: kbmaniac_ (Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )) 07:53:07 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 08:03:56 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@244.sub-70-194-133.myvzw.com) joined #forth 08:03:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 08:05:29 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-89-130.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 08:07:49 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 08:34:07 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-216-83.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 08:58:03 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 08:59:53 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 09:09:22 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 09:30:52 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:36:24 --- join: MayDaniel_ (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 09:39:30 --- quit: MayDaniel (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 10:08:15 --- join: jdavidboyd (~user@72.185.97.240) joined #forth 10:14:53 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.176) joined #forth 10:20:49 http://i.imgur.com/PL9WpKx.jpg 10:20:54 hehe. finally generated a meme 10:22:34 heh 10:24:53 hi RodgerTheGreat /. 10:25:05 what's up, dto? 10:25:30 not much. did some hacking, now i'm taking a break 10:25:32 you? 10:26:17 almost finished the game elements for Forth Warrior 10:26:20 and making lunch 10:26:51 I've been thinking a lot about how to create puzzles which are within the grasp of a simple program to solve 10:27:25 as I was describing earlier I think the trick is to make it so that completing the level itself is relatively easy but there are many side objectives and tradeoffs 10:27:36 ah. yeah that makes sense 10:27:41 generating solvable puzzles is hard. 10:27:58 so like for example I had an idea earlier to make the gems you can pick up for points also heal you slightly 10:28:15 this means you can greedily collect them OR possibly save them for when you need them 10:29:13 ha. 10:29:14 ah. 10:34:33 hey dto 10:34:54 hey schmx :) 10:35:21 You into forth now? 10:38:16 sort of. 10:38:43 super. 10:39:09 Well nice seeing ya, dto. I need to get back to studies. :) 10:41:06 okay 10:41:08 :) 10:43:14 --- quit: dto (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:15:46 --- quit: ttmrichter (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11:21:39 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@31.25.101.133) joined #forth 12:32:53 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 12:34:16 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 13:02:15 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 13:34:49 --- join: FlimFlam810 (~FlimFlam@blk-215-117-36.eastlink.ca) joined #forth 13:39:29 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-167-191.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 13:40:54 --- quit: dto (Quit: focus) 13:44:28 --- quit: jdavidboyd (Remote host closed the connection) 14:04:40 --- quit: FlimFlam810 (Quit: irc2go) 14:05:25 --- quit: derk_ (Quit: leaving) 14:19:41 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 14:23:13 --- quit: MayDaniel_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:24:09 --- quit: ncv (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:28:23 --- quit: epicmonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 14:28:43 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.176) joined #forth 14:35:04 --- nick: tangentcode -> tangentsleep 14:42:19 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:19:46 --- quit: JDat (Quit: figvam) 15:27:46 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:32:19 --- quit: Onionnion (Quit: Leaving) 15:36:42 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 15:39:30 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:40:22 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: impomatic) 15:46:34 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@148.54.112.87.dyn.plus.net) joined #forth 16:16:04 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk) 16:51:47 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:54:57 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 16:58:28 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:01:06 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17:05:48 --- join: Dohrann (~Dohrann@cpe-174-101-77-4.columbus.res.rr.com) joined #forth 17:08:33 Hello 17:15:11 --- quit: Dohrann (Quit: irc2go) 17:21:21 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 17:31:34 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:34:10 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 17:46:33 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 18:13:18 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:15:46 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 18:25:38 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:28:02 --- quit: kumool (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 18:50:34 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:50:44 --- join: dto (~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 18:50:52 RodgerTheGreat: hey 18:51:07 implemented the basics of a forth interpreter on top of my game engine: https://raw.github.com/dto/blocky/master/forth.lisp 18:51:16 a lot left to do, but the tests at the bottom do work :) 18:52:04 the 2nd half has comments and example expresoins 18:53:06 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 18:53:59 what do you think of the syntax? 18:54:06 thus far.... for declarations 18:54:17 (haven't implemented all the flow control yet, but it shouldn't be hard now that i've got these) 19:09:08 --- join: IAmHere_ (~IAmHere@c-75-70-11-91.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:11:50 --- nick: IAmHere_ -> IAmHere 19:12:05 i'm doing it quotation-style like Factor, so i don't really have to seek around in the program 19:14:43 hello IAmHere 19:18:21 dto: that looks prefix 19:19:10 only for a couple words. 19:19:17 i.e. a few macros. 19:19:27 --- quit: kumool (Quit: Leaving) 19:19:47 all the body code will be postfix, including flow control. 19:20:41 hm 19:20:51 needs some cleanups though. 19:23:29 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:24:28 RodgerTheGreat: in other words, the paragraphs will have declarative-looking headlines, but then postfix bodies. 19:26:22 brb 19:40:05 --- join: kumool (~Kumool@c-76-26-237-95.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:42:37 --- quit: kumul (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 19:53:38 --- join: dessos (~derk@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 19:53:44 RodgerTheGreat: hows your project going? 19:54:03 RodgerTheGreat: is your forth dialect self-rolled, or are you using Factor or something? 19:54:03 it's playable but I need to polish a few things before I can push an alpha 19:54:20 the reference implementation of my dialect is written in Java 19:54:27 i see. 19:54:36 my VM has ports in several languages 19:54:41 ah neat. 19:55:31 there's a wicked fast C version, the Java version (with j2me and android flavors) and a version written in Factor 19:56:16 that's rad :) 19:56:51 hey did i show you this one? :) it's the most recent game i worked on http://blocky.io/xalcyon-megavideo.ogv 19:56:59 well, most recent released game 19:57:30 hadn't seen that 19:59:16 you can play if you like, unfortunately it requires dual analog sticks 19:59:28 I don't have a gamepad, I'm afraid 19:59:39 i'm going to peek through your forth games if you don't mind. for syntax ideas. 20:00:13 go for it 20:03:50 what is it like to think in forth? i'm not quite there yet but it's beginning to happen 20:04:13 thinking in small pieces 20:04:24 seeing stack flow naturally 20:05:06 i learned lisp from a heavily forth-influenced guy 20:23:24 RodgerTheGreat: i'm trying to imagine the games from just the code :) 20:23:27 your system is nice. 20:23:34 thanks 20:25:04 looking at Aldez art. 20:25:29 it is heavily influenced by "The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening" 20:25:39 ah. 20:26:23 I never finished Aldez but it resulted in many spin-off libraries 20:26:36 several of my projects have worked out that way 20:26:50 so you fold improvements back into the system, with each game? 20:27:01 that's a good way to develop an engine. 20:27:10 well, a standard library at least 20:27:22 so, how do i play these on linux? 20:27:33 you need java and ant 20:28:26 i'll look at the instructions and give it a shot at some point. possibly not tonight, 20:28:48 when you have those tools it is as simple as running "ant" and then invoking maker with a source file 20:30:22 ah ok. 20:34:55 Java? Ant? 20:35:00 * ttmrichter checks the channel tag. 20:35:09 Man, I woke up in a weird world today! :D 20:35:34 surely there's nothing wrong with Java when it's being used to build a forth bootstrap compiler 20:37:19 It's just kind of diametrically opposed to the whole "simplicity" thing. :) 20:37:33 Java is an acceptable building material 20:37:50 and really, you can write forth in any language 20:38:50 You can only write a REAL Forth in assembler and Forth. ;) 20:39:03 * ttmrichter ← may not actually be serious 20:39:16 I figured 20:39:59 That being said, it *is* my favoured venue for Forths. 20:40:19 I like making things portable 20:40:46 I'd use MIPS assembly but it's damn hard to find an SGI machine these days 20:40:55 let alone get a decent *nix running on one 20:43:31 Ah, that's the other thing. Because of my background, Forth is for bare metal for me. 20:43:35 An OS just gets in the way. :D 20:43:44 fair 20:44:11 If you want a decent MIPS machine, doesn't qemu do that? 20:44:44 yeah but how is that different from running things on a JVM? 20:45:04 You can pretend it's the real hardware by going full-screen console. :D 20:45:51 I can do that in Mako too 20:46:00 Mako being? 20:46:10 my Forth VM 20:46:40 Can you break into an assembler from there? (If so, that would be really cool! Programming the JVM in its assembler under a Forth!) 20:46:46 and mako runs on all my computers, my nexus 7 and even my spongebob squarepants media player 20:47:14 no, mako is a hard abstraction layer 20:47:37 Ah. 20:50:52 although that is admittedly a neat idea 20:51:04 it would be much easier to do that on the CLR, sadly 20:51:42 Yep. The JVM is crippled by it being pretty much custom-built for Java. 20:52:06 The fact that people made languages other than Java on top of it is just a testament to their stick-to-it-iveness. 20:52:31 and the usefulness of the JVM ecosystem 20:53:05 kulp@gcc42:~$ uname -a 20:53:06 Linux gcc42 2.6.27.1 #476 Tue Oct 20 14:25:23 CST 2009 mips64 GNU/Linux 20:53:07 That too. 20:53:11 RodgerTheGreat ^ there you go ;) 20:53:24 LLVM, to be fair, is arguably as tied to C-like languages as the JVM Is tied to Java 20:53:33 Weirdest thing I saw on the JVM is an aulde-skool BASIC. 20:53:52 Yeah, LLVM is pretty much purely suited to imperative languages. 20:54:04 It's very hard to target for functional or logic languages. 20:54:09 well, most CPUs are best suited to imperative languages, too 20:54:14 unless you have a LISP machine, right 20:54:20 * kulp talks through his hat 20:54:26 I briefly toyed with making an LLVM backend for mako but LLVM *really* wants to emit register code 20:54:55 LLVM is also not good for tail call optimizations. 20:55:13 stack machines friggin' rule for tail call optimization 20:55:13 It has ... limited support for this capability, and not for all supported processors (last I looked; they may have fixed this). 20:56:06 Weird thing is that stack machines and register machines could be made far more compatible as a concept. You just need some instructions that manipulate register arrays as special cells in a stack. 20:57:34 Think a really fine-grained register window as an idea. 21:01:01 --- quit: dto (Remote host closed the connection) 21:24:46 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@86.98.18.206) joined #forth 21:42:50 --- quit: kumool (Quit: Leaving) 21:43:43 --- nick: tangentsleep -> tangentcode 21:57:18 Does anybody know of an affordable MIPS eval board? Something in the vein price-wise of STMicro's "Discovery" line of boards? 21:59:03 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-61-90-13-50.revip.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.01.30