00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.01.22 00:06:53 * impomatic is entering Al's programming contest http://azspcs.net/Contest/Factorials 00:11:01 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.175) joined #forth 00:11:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 00:11:06 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 00:23:50 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-104-96.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 00:23:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 00:27:57 --- join: rabenauge_ (~sag@88.130.171.119) joined #forth 00:27:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +v rabenauge_ 00:29:39 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 00:30:15 --- quit: rabenauge (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 00:52:20 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: No route to host) 00:59:33 --- nick: rabenauge_ -> rabenauge 01:25:24 --- join: protist (~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 01:25:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 01:44:51 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 01:44:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 02:53:11 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 04:07:57 --- quit: protist (Quit: leaving) 05:17:17 --- quit: Bahman (Remote host closed the connection) 06:41:43 --- nick: kulp_ -> kulp 06:42:03 --- quit: kulp (Changing host) 06:42:03 --- join: kulp (~kulp@unaffiliated/kulp) joined #forth 06:42:03 --- mode: kornbluth.freenode.net set +v kulp 07:28:54 --- quit: epicmonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 07:29:08 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net) joined #forth 07:29:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 09:05:50 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 09:17:15 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 09:17:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 09:27:08 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 09:27:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 09:49:19 --- join: ASau (~user@46.115.34.175) joined #forth 09:49:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 09:55:01 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 09:55:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 10:24:50 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 10:24:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 10:54:07 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 10:56:42 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 10:56:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 10:57:55 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 11:02:40 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-104-96.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 11:02:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 11:20:43 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 11:33:30 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@167.sub-70-194-68.myvzw.com) joined #forth 11:33:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 12:08:04 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.175) joined #forth 12:08:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 12:13:29 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 12:23:41 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 12:23:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +v JDat 13:36:38 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 14:40:51 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:43:43 --- quit: JDat () 14:46:22 --- join: JDat (JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 14:46:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +v JDat 14:50:16 --- quit: JDat (Client Quit) 15:03:37 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: Nity nite) 15:07:31 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:09:59 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@167.sub-70-194-68.myvzw.com) joined #forth 15:09:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 15:14:59 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 15:43:04 --- join: kumul (~Kumool@173.215.194.228) joined #forth 15:43:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kumul 15:44:08 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@167.sub-70-194-68.myvzw.com) joined #forth 15:44:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 16:00:48 --- quit: nighty^ (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 16:20:00 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-242.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 16:20:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 16:40:44 blah 16:40:49 someone who knows linear algebra should do this job 16:41:21 as long as it isn't a future version of me. 16:41:30 wisdom 16:42:43 got anywhere with your pass yet ? 16:43:31 it is a slow and halting thing 16:44:01 I can't talk too much about the details but I'm constructing this compiler IR that captures information normally gathered in a bunch of other analysis passes 16:44:35 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:44:41 in theory it will be a tremendous net gain for later optimization passes but it means this thing I'm working on is like four times as hairy and complicated as any other SSA construction algorithm 16:44:46 aha 16:44:51 and I am the first person to try to implement this 16:44:59 net gain because all the information is in one place, or because it's faster ? 16:45:34 are you sure you are the first to try ? or only the most recent not to give up ;) 16:45:59 net gain in complexity 16:46:09 and I am the first to try because this is unpublished and novel 16:46:11 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 16:46:19 which is also why I can't talk about details 16:46:23 yeah 16:46:32 i forgot that publishing doesn't necessarily require success 16:47:27 which is strange because my sole published work hardly could be said to be based on a resounding success :) 16:48:34 the overall story is that a prior phd student invented this fucking thing but only did the theory parts 16:48:55 the publication was rejected because it didn't have an implementation and benchmarks 16:49:07 my job is to decipher the original paper and furnish an implementation 16:49:11 haha 16:49:13 sounds lovely 16:49:24 * RodgerTheGreat sighs 16:49:38 i should be careful what i say to someone in academia, but good ideas are a dime a dozen ;) 16:49:42 then again this is probably obvious to you 16:49:50 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration etc. 16:51:34 I am well aware 16:52:17 it is a good idea and it is novel and I believe it will be a good thing when it is ready, but the original author failed to perform the necessary due diligence for this idea to be considered seriously 16:52:41 and you are considering it because ... your advisor told you to ? 16:52:47 yes 16:52:57 he is very enthusiastic about this idea 16:53:26 as he should be, he doesn't have to do anything ;) 16:54:52 like implementing any large application my work involves occasional kernels of truly interesting problems, lots of wading through documentation and long stretches of excruciating debugging 16:55:25 although an amusing thought has seeded itself in the back of my mind 16:55:53 he asked me today, probably jokingly, if I would have completed this implementation faster if I'd done it in Forth 16:56:16 haha 16:56:38 is he a Forth guy himself or is he only saying it for your sake ? 16:56:39 I almost want to do it just to troll the reviewers 16:56:43 haha 16:56:50 he is an Algol-60 guy 16:56:54 okay 16:56:56 then no 16:57:28 because it's not like the reviewers can say "your numbers suck because I don't know this programming language" 16:57:46 well they can say that but the metareviews will get 'em 16:58:23 if people could bitch about papers using an unclear programming language there wouldn't be entire journals filled with articles about cryptic snippets of Haskell 16:58:25 so you talk about "net gain in complexity" (i assume you mean simplicity) : what kind of benchmarks, though ? speed, size ? 16:58:37 --- nick: tangentstorm -> tangentaway 16:59:30 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@38.sub-70-194-66.myvzw.com) joined #forth 16:59:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 16:59:34 my advisor thinks it will be very fast. I think it will be comparable to the analysis passes it subsumes. It will be less mechanically complex. Fewer moving parts. 17:00:07 it captures some information that current IRs do not expose directly and thus information that many analysis passes extract on their own 17:00:23 perhaps you'll get some synergy from combining steps but won't that be offset by the additional complexity of the pass ? i mean it seemed that was what you were talking about to begin with 17:00:40 a monolithic system rather than separable components. i probably have the wrong idea. 17:00:44 this takes a CFG and builds an SSA-based IR structure 17:01:03 this pass, by itself, is larger than other IR construction algorithms 17:01:10 "information that many analysis passes extract on their own" okay that's what i wondered originally then when i said "net gain because all the information is in one place" 17:01:13 so i guess i was not far off 17:01:29 the point is that whenever people USE the other IRs they have to first do repetitive analysis to extract what they actually want 17:01:37 yeah 17:01:38 whereas in this case it'll just be made available directly 17:03:34 I can think of some ways using forth could simplify this implementation but it is data-structure heavy and that puts forth at a disadvantage 17:03:57 but eventually I have to rewrite it in C, so... 17:04:39 if you can do something non-trivial in C you ought to be able to make a forth version which is at least a little bit simpler and smaller 17:04:48 with more opportunities for doing so the larger the program is 17:09:33 oh man 17:09:50 I would need a forth-based C compiler framework 17:09:58 the tables would be turned 17:13:10 haha 17:13:33 i entertained a connected idea for a compiler 17:13:47 but there is absolutely no reason to suspect that i would succeed 17:13:56 i should write a few working compilers first ;) 17:15:38 I think I'll just settle for writing a new generation of my C-like systems programming language 17:15:52 current gen is called "Stroyent" 17:16:01 new version could be called "DeStroy" 17:16:06 hehe 17:18:57 --- join: t4nk339 (d1068833@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.6.136.51) joined #forth 17:18:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +v t4nk339 17:20:58 --- quit: t4nk339 (Client Quit) 18:09:01 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 18:33:28 --- quit: xpoqp (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20:33:12 --- nick: tangentaway -> tangentstorm 20:47:42 --- join: IAmHere_ (~IAmHere@c-75-70-11-91.hsd1.co.comcast.net) joined #forth 20:47:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +v IAmHere_ 20:51:25 --- quit: IAmHere (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:51:26 --- nick: IAmHere_ -> IAmHere 21:23:43 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 21:30:42 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@bba141175.alshamil.net.ae) joined #forth 21:30:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman 21:50:18 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-42-254.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 21:50:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:07:35 --- quit: Onionnion (Quit: Leaving) 23:09:15 --- quit: rabenauge (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.01.22