00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.01.13 00:20:13 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.175) joined #forth 00:20:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 00:20:29 --- join: ncv (~quassel@89.35.216.197) joined #forth 00:20:29 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 00:20:29 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 00:20:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 00:21:42 who created amforth? 00:22:26 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 01:09:53 --- quit: rabenauge (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 01:19:08 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 01:25:23 --- join: rabenauge (~sag@88.130.176.123) joined #forth 01:25:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +v rabenauge 01:55:26 --- quit: anannie (Remote host closed the connection) 02:06:24 --- join: anannie (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/anannie) joined #forth 02:06:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v anannie 02:27:15 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 02:27:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ygrek 02:33:25 --- quit: ygrek (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 02:33:55 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:34:35 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 02:34:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ygrek 02:58:43 --- quit: ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 02:58:56 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 02:58:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ygrek 03:04:27 --- join: protist (~protist@222.153.223.102) joined #forth 03:04:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 03:13:33 --- quit: protist (Remote host closed the connection) 03:13:47 --- join: protist (~protist@222.153.223.102) joined #forth 03:13:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 03:21:52 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 03:28:26 --- join: JDat (~JDat@89.248.91.5) joined #forth 03:28:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +v JDat 03:30:33 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 03:32:13 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-89-111.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 03:32:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 03:46:55 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 03:46:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 04:10:14 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 04:48:42 --- quit: ygrek (Remote host closed the connection) 04:51:44 --- join: ygrek (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ygrek) joined #forth 04:51:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ygrek 06:23:46 --- quit: anannie (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 06:33:03 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-242.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 06:33:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 06:33:14 'morning folks 06:36:01 --- quit: rabenauge (Quit: Ex-Chat) 06:38:19 --- join: rabenauge (~sag@88.130.187.71) joined #forth 06:38:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +v rabenauge 06:55:13 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-171-79.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 06:55:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion 07:02:43 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.175) joined #forth 07:02:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 07:08:09 --- quit: jdavidboyd (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 07:08:44 --- join: jdavidboyd (~user@72.185.97.240) joined #forth 07:08:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v jdavidboyd 09:13:41 what's everybody up to today 09:45:54 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 09:45:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 09:53:43 --- quit: Onionnion (Quit: Leaving) 10:15:21 sitting here wishing I was programming 10:29:56 do itt! 10:30:06 just do it! 10:31:36 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 10:31:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 10:32:57 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 10:32:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 10:55:04 --- join: anannie (~chatzilla@95.211.99.11) joined #forth 10:55:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v anannie 10:55:16 hey anannie 10:55:21 how's it going? 10:55:23 --- quit: anannie (Changing host) 10:55:23 --- join: anannie (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/anannie) joined #forth 10:55:23 --- mode: holmes.freenode.net set +v anannie 10:55:25 hey RodgerTheGreat 10:55:48 I just woke up, what about you? 10:56:21 I've been reading up on lattice theory 10:56:41 it underlies proofs in some papers I am studying 10:58:56 it is somewhat less than thrilling to read about 10:59:11 what is that if I may ask? 10:59:49 well the best summary I think I can give is that lattices are a way of talking about sets of elements with a partial order that has particular properties 11:00:27 ah I see 11:00:48 it dips into a lot of abstract algebra stuff 11:01:52 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 11:02:20 sounds fun 11:03:03 it's about as exciting as my weekends get 11:03:20 it's actually more preferable than mine 11:03:26 oh? 11:20:50 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@46.208.50.63) joined #forth 11:20:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 11:20:57 yo impomatic 11:25:53 RodgerTheGreat: I'm wasting my time and mind writing these grants for people... I hate my job for its intellectual dishonesty 11:26:18 hm 11:26:46 Hi :-) 11:28:20 hi impomatic 11:28:36 RodgerTheGreat: It's great money, but I don't know. I don't like it 12:03:31 RodgerTheGreat: played around with the refill word of ans forth? 12:03:50 I don't think I'm familiar 12:04:07 RodgerTheGreat: it's a nice toy. i was astounished, that this useful thing is actually IN the standard. 12:04:27 RodgerTheGreat: nice to build stuff like (* ... your comment ... *) 12:04:35 RodgerTheGreat: over multiple lines. 12:05:00 RodgerTheGreat: forces the outer interpreter to get the next line from the input source 12:05:15 hmm 12:05:43 I try at the moment to build something more useful with it 12:06:11 ah: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/The-Input-Stream.html#index-refill-_0040var_007b-_002d_002d-flag---_007d--core_002dext_002cblock_002dext_002cfile_002dext-1572 12:07:54 RodgerTheGreat: have you coded some avr code yet with forth? 12:08:17 no I haven't; I do not know avr assembly 12:08:40 I wonder which forth system / library could be used for developing for ATiny the 2k programming memory version 12:08:56 well, me neither. but I'm looking at it, at the moment. 12:09:14 I have always the urge, to program an assembler for it. 12:09:26 nobody? 12:09:30 amforth? bueller? 12:09:52 fantazo, what a coincidence. check out amforth. 12:10:30 bjorkintosh: thats too big for an ATiny 12:10:36 oh. 12:10:49 well. i have an arduino i am trying to work on. 12:10:59 I think your best bet would be using a target compiler, fantazo 12:11:05 in that case you could use any desktop forth 12:11:15 RodgerTheGreat: I know. 12:11:48 RodgerTheGreat: but no money at the moment for that luxury 12:12:06 uh 12:13:34 what? you have a computer. 12:13:39 install forth on it. 12:13:46 and ... magic. then voila! 12:13:53 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 12:14:07 bjorkintosh: a t a r g e e t compiler is the luxury 12:14:25 huh. 12:14:41 you could write one, y'know 12:14:48 bjorkintosh: I don't see a forth -> avr assembly compiler out there 12:15:29 RodgerTheGreat: this is what I'll plan to do. As I think I finally could get into that field of writing assemblers once again. 12:15:56 gforth contains examples of assemblers for a variety of architectures. Writing another for avr shouldn't be terribly difficult 12:16:12 even working from scratch, a forth-style assembler is quite simple 12:16:17 RodgerTheGreat: well, I normally don't understand the arcane magic of gforth. 12:16:49 RodgerTheGreat: depends on the architecture, but avr is quiet pleasant, from what I have seen yet 12:17:57 RodgerTheGreat: did you understand the gforth cross compiler? I don't 12:18:34 I haven't used it myself 12:18:47 if you want to hand-roll a solution, this guy has many papers that could be useful: http://www.bradrodriguez.com/papers/ 12:20:41 RodgerTheGreat: you know... home made tastes better, as some people think :-) 12:21:14 forth is by tradition the ultimate NIH language 12:22:30 RodgerTheGreat: the ... what language? 12:22:43 RodgerTheGreat: the Not invented here language? 12:22:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here 12:23:21 fantazo, i440r has such a thing i think. 12:23:26 but you might be right. 12:23:39 yeah, but well as I don't see yet something out there. I will upload my code somewhere and document it. 12:24:20 maybe as a part of my fflow "library" where I'm from time to time toying around. 12:25:23 so i must be missing something. why must a target compiler cost money? 12:25:34 or am i completely misunderstanding the point you were making? 12:26:10 btw. stupid "product placement" here: http://www.gitorious.org/fflow 12:26:14 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:27:10 bjorkintosh: as it normally does in the forth world, normally it doesn't but here I normally only see such compilers from companies like forth inc or from the vfx forth provider. 12:31:08 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 12:31:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 12:35:55 oh i see. 12:37:01 and when someone anywhere writes something useful, it is garbled documented, not documented at all or not open source. 12:38:10 what is something, which makes me kinda angry, as forth is a very small language community hinders that behaviour to actually let people do something with forth which isn't totally simple. 12:41:58 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 12:44:24 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 12:45:06 what are they keeping you from doing. 12:58:47 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:16:59 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@87.sub-70-194-66.myvzw.com) joined #forth 13:17:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 13:17:27 wow. you actually LEAVE the channel, I440r? 13:18:26 i shut my computer down sometimes 13:18:50 i dont have real interwebs. i get on the net via wifi tether through my android phone 13:19:04 fake interwebs 13:19:14 the conversations you have here probably aren't even real 13:20:18 im not real. im a forth program 13:20:21 }:) 13:20:23 i wrote me 13:20:34 how. nice. 13:21:06 metacircularity looks pretty good on a resume 13:23:46 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-171-79.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 13:23:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion 13:23:46 I440r, is there no forth -> avr assembly program? 13:28:19 i wrote anavr assembler for isforth. im fixing some things in isforth in to prep for its release as a full avr development system. im going to donate the direct threaded version to adafruit industries 13:28:36 im not ready to release yet. i have a lot to do before it is ready 13:29:28 tho. the avr assembler, target kernel and target compiler are done i have not written the tethering code. i need two methods. USB CDC and USART 13:29:40 and i need both sides of that, target and host 13:33:56 but you could still generate avr binaries and burn them using normal tools, right? 13:34:32 you know one neat thing about the arduino uno? 13:34:42 it has, not one, but two atmel processors on it. 13:34:57 the usb controller is one? 13:35:08 yeah. 13:35:32 it is re-programmable. 13:35:33 the TI launchpad is pretty much the same way. The USB interface chip is a high-end MSP430 13:37:49 * impomatic bought a Launchpad on eBay, but the seller didn't send it :-( 13:38:20 you can buy them from TI for a few dollars 13:39:04 you donated money to a seller on ebay, impomatic 13:39:41 $60 shipping from TI for a Launchpad from USA to UK 13:39:57 buy a raspberry pi. 13:40:15 or an arduino. both european products. 13:40:21 cheaper, therefore. 13:40:23 Minimum order from the UK dealer is 6 units. I'll buy 6 shortly. 13:40:36 6 launchpads? 13:40:43 Yes 13:40:56 well at least you'll have a lot of MCUs to play with 13:45:40 what is so special about the launchpad? 13:45:50 it's really cheap normally 13:46:16 MSP430s are known for being good for low-power applications 13:46:59 what are their specs? 13:47:04 8 bit? etc? 13:47:24 they're all 16 bit 13:47:41 wow. 13:47:55 this page covers the full range: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI_MSP430 13:48:38 I prefer the MSP430 instruction set to the AVR instruction set. 13:48:54 the launchpad is a devkit which comes with two low-end msp430 chips and a devboard for $4.30 13:49:07 that's a pretty good deal 13:49:23 given that the devboard contains a third msp430 and can be used on higher-end chips 13:50:19 I have an EZ430 (MSP430 on a USB stick) 13:57:20 --- quit: JDat () 14:06:35 msp430 is ultra low power if you use power saving techniques. i.e. it wakes up, does its job, goes to sleep. 14:06:43 they can run for years on a coin cell 14:07:50 i have an msp430 devkit sort of. it has an OTP that i need to swap out with a flash device but i could never swap out that chip. would need a tech to do it for me lol 14:07:57 so ive never done anything with it 14:09:48 a tech? 14:09:51 geezus! 14:10:11 if it breaks, it breaks. 14:10:59 ive seen some techs with awesome board hacking skills. i wouldnt give it to just anyone 14:12:15 ah. i thought you lived on a mountain behind the sticks. 14:12:23 where no tech dare live. 14:18:00 It's just started snowing here... 14:18:29 good. keep it there. k. thx. bye. 14:18:45 we had ice yesterday. that sucked. 14:30:44 it has been blizzarding here all day 14:42:59 oh? 14:43:08 you betcha 14:43:17 it was 68F here in western ny 14:43:22 a bit bizzare 14:43:30 but it's supposed to be high in the 30s tomorrow 14:43:39 so, I expect there to be some wind between then and now 14:52:43 im near chicago. almost no snow here exept just prior to xmas 14:52:56 and last nite 15:20:59 --- quit: anannie (Remote host closed the connection) 15:27:04 --- quit: ygrek (Quit: Leaving) 15:41:52 --- part: impomatic left #forth 17:09:13 --- join: ASau` (~user@46.115.57.80) joined #forth 17:09:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau` 17:12:14 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 17:39:28 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-89-111.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 17:39:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 18:13:07 --- quit: jdavidboyd (Remote host closed the connection) 18:14:21 --- join: Bahman_ (~Bahman@2.145.238.27) joined #forth 18:14:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman_ 18:14:26 --- join: jdavidboyd (~user@72.185.97.240) joined #forth 18:14:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +v jdavidboyd 18:17:00 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 20:32:27 --- quit: jdavidboyd (Remote host closed the connection) 20:49:30 --- join: jdavidboyd (~user@72.185.97.240) joined #forth 20:49:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v jdavidboyd 21:07:39 --- quit: Onionnion (Quit: Leaving) 21:07:50 --- quit: jdavidboyd (Remote host closed the connection) 21:31:45 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 21:48:47 --- nick: ASau` -> ASau 21:53:16 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 21:56:09 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 22:04:44 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-83-101.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 22:04:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:11:49 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@179.sub-70-194-65.myvzw.com) joined #forth 22:11:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 23:10:23 --- quit: rabenauge (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 23:10:42 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.01.13