00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.01.12 00:13:00 --- join: ncv (~quassel@89.35.216.197) joined #forth 00:13:00 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 00:13:00 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 00:13:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 00:21:52 --- join: protist (~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 00:21:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 01:04:58 --- quit: rabenauge (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 01:07:05 --- join: rabenauge (~sag@88.130.182.179) joined #forth 01:07:05 --- mode: ChanServ set +v rabenauge 01:10:23 --- quit: protist (Quit: Lost terminal) 01:31:22 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 01:35:18 --- join: protist (~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 01:35:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 01:41:53 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.175) joined #forth 01:41:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 01:56:37 --- quit: protist (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 02:10:56 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@46.208.50.63) joined #forth 02:10:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 02:19:53 --- join: protist (~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 02:19:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 03:00:47 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 03:05:50 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-114-160.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 03:05:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 03:09:09 can i do something like .equ primitive, $1 ? 03:09:14 if i do .equ primitive, 1 ...then later i have to $primitive 03:50:09 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 04:01:26 --- quit: tgunr (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 04:03:02 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 04:03:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 04:15:43 --- quit: tgunr (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 04:18:03 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 04:18:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 04:57:03 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 04:57:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 05:27:28 --- quit: tgunr (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 05:48:06 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 05:48:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 06:02:56 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:07:37 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 06:07:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 06:09:15 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:13:48 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 06:13:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 06:15:20 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:20:14 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 06:20:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 06:21:21 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:24:02 --- join: anannie (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/anannie) joined #forth 06:24:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +v anannie 06:26:11 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 06:26:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 06:27:26 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:32:03 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 06:32:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 06:33:16 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:37:36 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-171-79.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 06:37:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion 06:38:08 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 06:38:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 06:39:32 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:41:22 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 06:44:02 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 06:44:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 07:16:31 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.175) joined #forth 07:16:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 07:21:18 --- quit: anannie (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 08:18:52 --- join: anannie (~chatzilla@unaffiliated/anannie) joined #forth 08:18:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v anannie 08:20:49 protist: How you be doing today? 08:42:51 --- quit: tgunr (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 08:49:21 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 08:49:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 08:58:31 anannie: i am well :) 08:58:35 anannie: how are you? 08:58:49 anannie: my forth interpretter is much farther along now :D 08:59:48 I'm not doing so well today protist 09:02:41 anannie: what is wrong? :( 09:03:37 I have problems at my end protist, I'm just trying to be productive 09:03:43 so did you manage to crack PE12? 09:04:09 i haven't tried to crack it again since we last spoke haha 09:04:16 Try it. 09:04:26 my interpretter owns me now 09:04:30 lol 09:04:30 Don't give up 09:04:36 i won't give up 09:04:42 i will come back! :) 09:04:51 Seriously, don't give up. It's a 15 minute problem if you can figure out a few key bits 09:05:18 hehe....it hasn't been a 15 minute problem 09:05:41 it is like when you lose your shoes....it is so simple to find them, but you never look in the right place 09:06:08 Yes protist 09:06:15 i will come back to it, I have solved 1-11....thus i have to do it lol 09:06:26 I need to do PE8 09:06:31 I haven't touched it yet 09:06:31 uh oh 09:06:43 I need to do that and solve my work issues 09:07:24 hehe 09:07:33 i know perl, thus that problem becomes easy 09:07:50 I don't want to brute force it 09:07:59 I'm searching for an elegant solution 09:08:00 because i can descend into the deepest bowels of regex hell in 10 seconds lol 09:08:08 oh 09:09:01 Aaron Swartz committed suicide and I feel a bit jaded over that 09:09:20 that is why your day is bad? 09:09:56 well my day is going bad due to a combination of things, but it didn't help that a friend of a friend committed suicide 09:11:35 while($text=~s/(\d)(\d)(\d)(\d)(\d)//){$number=$result if$number<($result=$1*$2*$3*$4*$5)}print"$number\n" 09:11:54 PE 8 ^ 09:12:11 in the grittiest of Perl 09:12:17 Jesus you shouldn't have published that 09:12:20 anannie: and :( 09:12:21 I'm not reading it 09:12:38 anannie: lol...they would have to know how to read input to use it 09:13:13 anannie: meh, i suppose i shouldn't have, but how else can i show off? ;) 09:13:40 oh oops i failed to consider something in that 09:13:46 won't work anyways 09:13:58 it would need a minor change, so don't worry :) 09:14:30 Meh that's the thing I hate about most men... Dude I could rub my solution in your face, but seriously I'm just interested in helping you solve it partly as revenge for making me spend 16 hours of my life on it and partly because I'm that sort of person 09:15:11 make me feel bad :( 09:15:21 LOL, it's okay just ranting a bit 09:15:30 knowing Perl is like cheating on text manipulation problems lol 09:15:32 :D 09:16:57 i like to post nasty Perl solutions like that places, it is m version of trolling 09:17:01 my* 09:17:11 lol 09:17:50 check this out....when i first posted the one-line solution, i offered no explanation haha: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12691511/how-to-list-files-with-numbers-in-their-name-and-retrieve-the-numbers/12691813#12691813 09:18:00 that is stackoverflow, not PE ^ 09:24:42 I'm not going to click 09:27:05 stackoverflow is just where people ask random questions 09:27:52 anannie: what are you up to? 09:28:14 I'm watching an episode of fringe to calm my nerves, then I'm going to write a document 09:32:32 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-242.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 09:32:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 09:33:07 hello folks 09:34:07 RodgerTheGreat: hello 09:34:15 what's up, protist? 09:34:27 working on my interpretter :D 09:34:55 cool beans 09:35:04 it can now interpret precompiled words, and if it can't find the word, it interprets it as a number :D 09:35:23 now i have to get user_defined words working 09:35:42 what are /you/ up to? 09:36:09 well I recently woke up 09:36:14 still kinda planning my day 09:37:03 I have some research to do and I was also thinking about doing a nice writeup on a garbage collector I wrote 09:37:41 RodgerTheGreat: nice :D 09:38:24 I think I'll cover the simpler pair-allocator version because it has fewer moving parts and illustrates the same ideas 09:39:30 the GC strategy handles defragmentation so adding variable-sized allocation just means you need a size field and doing some more stack twiddling and address math 09:39:51 hmmm 09:41:28 hm. just occurred to me that if I stored size+1 in the size field on the "real" one it would be more efficient, because in practice code rarely cares about the size and the GC always wants size+1, the "actual" size of a block 09:42:26 anyway 09:43:09 RodgerTheGreat: Did you check HN today? 09:43:13 yeah 09:44:00 anannie: what are your thoughts? 09:44:03 I feel a bit jaded; he was a friend of a friend. I'd read about his struggles and well I thought he would be the last person to do something like that and yet he did. 09:44:18 It hurt a bit because if he's capable of it, I'm worried that I might snap as well. 09:44:33 I don't want to inflict that on those around me 09:44:36 I find it difficult to understand suicide, but I think that's sort of the nature of the thing 09:45:03 I know suicide very well... I tried to do it several times when I was growing up, but I was never really good at it. 09:45:10 anannie: if you are considering suicide, start smoking 09:45:22 Eh, protist? 09:45:28 anannie: smoking = fun + antipsychotic 09:45:34 anannie: problem solved :D 09:45:51 I don't smoke, drink, do drugs and I'm trying to phase out caffeine and sugar. 09:45:53 and antidepressant 09:46:02 I guess it makes sense that the front page of HN is all about this, since he was in on early funding. 09:46:05 anannie: good on you 09:46:42 anannie: well if not smoking if the needle that breaks the suicidal camel's back, then was it really healthy to not smoke? :P 09:46:47 is* 09:47:00 The decrease in life span associated with smoking far outweighs those potential benefits. This is the paradox you see. After everything I've gone to I feel like blowing my head off, but I also want to live life. I want to leave a legacy. 09:47:02 protist: I don't think that argument makes any sense 09:47:11 protist: by your logic maybe he should've had a lollipop 09:47:31 protist: It's not that easy. 09:47:35 RodgerTheGreat: maybe she should have a lollipop :p 09:47:54 protist: It might help you, but please understand I have PTSD due to 6.5 years of abuse. 09:48:06 the way I look at it is, if you kill yourself there is a zero percent chance things will get better for you. If you keep trying your chances are infinitely better. 09:48:52 if someone decides to commit suicide that is their choice, but it's never the only option 09:49:09 RodgerTheGreat: I had a plan to kill myself with KCl, get myself cryonically preserved and someday when the tech is right crawl back into existence. 09:49:10 anannie: nicotine is both an anti-psychotic and anti-depressant ...it also is enjoyable...i really can't see it hurting your state of mine 09:49:13 mind* 09:49:33 anannie: well there goes my argument I guess 09:50:05 RodgerTheGreat: that way there's a non zero probability of things working out in death 09:50:21 protist: if nicotene is what has beneficial effects, why not just use patches? The act of smoking itself is demonstrably unhealthy. 09:50:41 --- quit: tgunr (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 09:50:41 RodgerTheGreat: glad you asked...I use an electronic cigarette 09:50:42 protist: The arguments you're making favour nicotine gum. 09:51:04 protist: well that's also a more defensible idea 09:51:19 RodgerTheGreat: yeah....even dipping is more defensible 09:51:22 but personally I don't like depending on drugs to make it through my day 09:51:31 protist: I also feel that you're trivialising the entire thing 09:51:37 RodgerTheGreat: but if you are suicidal, then any of the choices is a net gain ide say 09:51:55 anannie: i tend to do that with emotional things 09:52:10 RodgerTheGreat: I take modafinil + aripiprazole. I'm feeling like I need to come off the aripiprazole 09:52:14 anannie: if i can convince you of its triviality, then you might stop considering it 09:52:39 RodgerTheGreat: I heartily recommend the modafinil though, it's a great cognitive enhancer 09:53:05 I have fairly severe OCD, nicotine helps 09:53:19 protist: I understand. 09:54:07 RodgerTheGreat: The problem with the aripiprazole is that it causes excessive sedation in me. I'm nearly catatonic after I take it. I can't think at all for long periods of time. 09:54:17 Even with modafinil in my system. 09:54:27 troublesome 09:54:31 if i were suicidal, ide prob go out and get a tattoo and peircings, because i wouldn't be as concerned about their permenence :P 09:54:33 --- join: kc5tja (~sfalvo@173-11-86-21-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) joined #forth 09:54:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kc5tja 09:55:09 --- part: kc5tja left #forth 09:55:18 It is better to be miserable but productive than to be doped out of my mind. I know for sure that I might (emphasis on the might, for all I know going off these might impose a higher cognitive tax on me due to the anxieties) be more productive without these meds as there's this narrow band of productivity I slip into when I don't take them for a few days due to my disrupted sleep cycles. 09:55:41 However, I'm genuinely worried that without the med I might regress and that I might end up a suicidal mess. My solution to that is to keep track and go back on it if anything untoward happens, but I'm a bit worried I might just snap. I accept that risk, but I'm worried about the impact on my productivity. 09:55:49 I need to focus on getting out and surviving 09:55:50 anannie: also, get off birth control if you are on it...that stuff messes with women 09:55:57 my issue with tattoos is that A) I'd want one of *my* drawings on my body rather than someone else's. B) If I had a drawing of mine from 10 years ago I would be unhappy with it now. 09:56:09 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 09:56:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 09:56:11 RodgerTheGrea++ 09:56:12 this leaves me with only tattoos with some kind of utility to them 09:56:15 RodgerTheGreat++ 09:56:41 I prefer to leave my body unmarked. 09:56:45 RodgerTheGreat: maybe a chart of logarithms, then? XD 09:56:49 best idea I had in that direction was to have a pair of log scales tattooed on flat areas of my skin so I could use them as a slide rule 09:56:55 OMFG 09:56:59 i was right! 09:57:10 but honestly I think skin by itself can be interesting 09:57:23 My skin is already scarred 09:57:29 well there you go 09:57:35 did you see that, i actually suggested logarithms before you divulged it 09:57:36 I don't want to make it worse 09:57:47 Yes I saw that protist 09:57:48 your skin carries part of your life story with you 09:58:33 for better or for worse I suppose 09:58:34 RodgerTheGreat: a pair of them is a good idea, though...then you really could use them mechanically 09:58:54 protist: yeah, it'd probably need to be index fingers or inner forearms 09:59:01 the latter producing greater accuracy 09:59:14 but honestly I think I'd rather just practice my mental arithmetic 09:59:29 RodgerTheGreat: i would probably get an axiom or formula of some sort, or symbol 09:59:39 RodgerTheGreat: i probably wouldn't regret that as much 09:59:52 RodgerTheGreat: because it would remain true in spite of me 10:00:03 problem with reference material is you will memorize literally anything you have printed on your arm after a month or two 10:00:17 if the formula is meaningful to you that's something at least 10:00:51 I would rather do a brain implant instead 10:01:02 RodgerTheGreat: maybe something on the rib area, just to have a reason to be shirtless more often 10:01:05 RodgerTheGreat: I wanted your opinion on the move... 10:01:19 I also had the idea that if I was terminally ill I would have every part of my skin tattooed with labels and donate my body to science so that I could be a human cheat sheet to somebody in med school 10:01:28 anannie: ok? 10:01:37 RodgerTheGreat: that is incredible 10:01:50 RodgerTheGreat: Give what I wrote above do you think it's logical to get off that med? 10:01:55 * given 10:02:02 I'm trying to sanity check my action 10:02:04 RodgerTheGreat: i hope you do that....but try to not die if you can help it 10:02:21 well, not only am I not a doctor but I am not a med student 10:02:34 going off of antidepressants can be very dangerous 10:03:06 I think if you are unhappy with the side effects you should consult a qualified physician who understands the consequences and can help you 10:03:13 Yes and I accept that danger. All I care about is being functional and work. 10:03:19 I don't have any access to care. 10:03:29 well I don't want you to kill yourself how about that 10:03:50 if you can wait until you have access to care it would be a really, really good idea 10:05:18 It's complicated. 10:05:24 yeah 10:05:26 I know 10:05:44 please be careful 10:05:48 there are actually several months for that to occur and during that time period I need to be mentally functional at a high level 10:05:56 I have to survive this somehow 10:06:13 and I have to survive it in a manner that allows me to thrive 10:06:23 these may seem to be contradictory 10:06:37 but living life on the run is just mentally taxing 10:06:51 I can only imagine 10:07:35 It's also the meta thing 10:08:10 the people who want to hurt me are the very people who were supposed to protect me and now I'm alive thanks to complete strangers. 10:09:09 it is surprising sometimes how many strangers turn out to be decent people 10:09:20 Yes. 10:09:27 I would be dead if it weren't for them. 10:19:44 --- join: Onionnion|Eee (~ryan@adsl-68-254-171-79.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 10:19:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion|Eee 10:24:13 what sort of interpreter is it you are working at, protist? 10:24:56 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:29:32 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 10:29:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 10:38:20 rabenauge: a Forth interpretter :) 10:38:32 nice! 10:38:35 rabenauge: :D 10:38:55 rabenauge: it is written in x86 32 bit AT&T asm 10:39:20 rabenauge: so far it can interprett precompiled words and numbers from input 10:39:41 rabenauge: i am working on getting the compiling words and user defined words working 10:40:56 did you read about the J1 processor? they used the most significant bit to part numbers from instructions. very fast home brew processor design :) 10:41:20 rabenauge: i am only on page 50 in Stack Machines 10:41:27 rabenauge: it has mentioned something similar :) 10:42:05 rabenauge: and don't forget the "return" bit 10:42:21 http://www.excamera.com%2Ffiles%2Fj1.pdf 10:42:23 the JI essentially uses the instruction format as microcode 10:42:34 yes return bit is also very nice 10:42:56 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 10:42:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 10:43:04 a very beautiful architecture. I'm trying to convince one of the professors in my department who teaches architecture to do a stack machine 10:43:17 rabenauge: that link doesn't work for me 10:43:27 i like the j1 sintrcution set, since you can interpret/emulate it with simply shifting bits in software 10:43:36 RodgerTheGreat: are you a professor? 10:43:39 mom 10:43:49 no, just a PhD student 10:44:03 http://www.excamera.com/files/j1.pdf 10:44:06 RodgerTheGreat: ah....i want to be a professor, are you planning to become one? 10:44:54 possibly. Despite my best efforts I've developed some teaching experience, but I also enjoy working on "real world" projects 10:46:12 I have some industry experience gained between undergrad and starting my MS 10:46:24 there are upsides to both types of work 10:47:03 I'm pursuing the PhD primarily as a means of bettering myself rather than simply to increase my earning potential 10:47:38 makes sense 10:48:22 I like to think so. :) 10:48:26 what field? 10:48:35 computer science, specializing in compilers 10:49:04 ah 10:54:34 yeah I know, not very exciting hunh? 10:54:44 no, it's cool 10:54:49 It is fascinating RodgerTheGreat 10:55:04 thanks 10:55:05 also, I approve of education for education's sake 10:55:15 anannie: I don't get that very often 10:55:20 and I think you would make a fascinating professor and great teacher and mentor. 10:55:46 I have been told I would be a good professor because I'm opinionated 10:55:55 RodgerTheGreat: Well it is fascinating, let me explain why, you're manipulating the underpinnings through which we can manipulate these complex machines to carry on complex instructions 10:56:02 yeah, if you care about something, you're bound to have opinions 10:56:20 RodgerTheGreat: Without your work, without the impetus for it none of the higher level of abstractions can exist 10:56:22 I care about getting lunch right now, though, so bbl 10:56:55 RodgerTheGreat: There is something very fascinating and beautiful about designing something that can be extended to do beautiful things and that's the core of your work. 10:57:44 it's fun to design languages and then explore the resulting world. When you design a language the idioms for using it already exist, they simply must be mined 10:58:59 RodgerTheGreat: Think about the trillions of logic gates that exist down there, I don't have to worry about flipping them and how instructions are carried out thanks to several layers that exist. I don't have to worry about how the instruction results in a particular action. I can just wander in the mental playground created by you and extend that world to do something interesting with it 10:59:00 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 10:59:18 RodgerTheGreat: I'm talking about computing in the aggregate btw, hence the trillions. 10:59:45 yes, I recall your ambitions for grids of raspberry pis 11:00:09 RodgerTheGreat: there are trillions of logic gates in existence. We can abstract them all.... Is that not beautiful and fascinating? 11:00:19 it would be weird if there were an assembler capable of symbolic manipulation 11:00:38 i could see that being oddly useful 11:00:47 protist: doable 11:00:58 RodgerTheGreat: yeah 11:01:01 anannie: it is beautiful. 11:01:10 RodgerTheGreat: it would require choosing an implementation, though :) 11:01:22 --- join: ncv (~quassel@89.35.216.197) joined #forth 11:01:22 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 11:01:22 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 11:01:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 11:01:37 RodgerTheGreat: May I PM you a question? 11:01:44 sure 11:01:47 anannie: but i wanna see it! 11:01:48 :( 11:27:18 protist: what are you writing your interpreter in, x86 asm ? 11:27:48 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-114-160.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 11:27:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 11:31:08 Have you heard about the Parallella? A grid of those might be more fun than Raspberry Pis :-) 11:35:36 impomatic: Yes, I indeed have, but I want to construct something from the ground up than do it using a top down approach, if that makes any sense 11:36:02 it is very satisfying to build in that way 11:36:50 Yes that makes sense :-) 11:37:08 impomatic: It might not work, but I think there's something to be said over here 11:42:34 I wish someone would write a decent Forth for Android. 11:42:52 I've seen a few on the app store but they tend not to work properly 11:42:57 There are a couple, but only one works on the Nexus 7. 11:43:21 I have a nexus 7 and the apps I tried did not work 11:43:56 Unfortunately it's incomplete. I don't mind having to implement TUCK, NIP, etc. But UNTIL and other basic control words are missing. 11:44:18 hrm 11:45:02 This one -> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.interfree.leonardoce.leoforthads 11:45:53 man that is a garish icon 11:48:02 but after all this is the gold standard: http://globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/forth_on_the_atari.jpg 11:49:15 May the FORTH be with you! 11:49:55 you want to learn Forth? Hope you're good at benchpresses. 11:50:46 I guess it's fair that the guy's outfit is nearly as skimpy as what the woman is wearing 11:51:20 the additional head protection is reasonable given the heavy object he is lifting 11:51:27 ^^ 11:51:58 I never saw forth as a heavy object until now! :) 11:52:34 probably the strangest aspect of that cover is the keyboard keys arranged in a grid 11:52:45 it's unnatural I tell you 11:52:50 hehe 11:53:10 and they are evidently stiff as hell if people standing on them doesn't cause them to depress 11:53:21 in the late 80th they were selling a special keyboard that you could attach to your leg. 11:53:29 it had only 7 keys 11:53:35 chorded keyboards 11:53:40 but you could write everything with it 11:53:45 yap 11:54:00 and it was pretty fast once used to it 11:54:01 chorded keyboard + mouse always seemed to make a lot of sense for UIs 11:54:07 rabenauge: microwriter? 11:58:27 no, it was some different. It had something elastic to wrap around the leg, so you could stand up and walk around, without unwrapping it, just pulling the plug from the pc interface 11:58:59 there was no thing like bluetooth then 11:59:01 rabenauge: ever play the game Deus Ex? 11:59:10 nope 11:59:44 There are a few Forth books I'm looking for. Unfortunately they're quite difficult to find... :-( I've been checking on eBay / Amazon / Abe for months... 12:00:04 rabenauge: one of the "hacker" characters had pants which were essentially like this: http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/4-23-08-keyboard-pants.jpg 12:00:34 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote host closed the connection) 12:00:45 did you look for gforth-0.7.0.pdf , thinking-forth.pdf , forth_primer.pdf etc. all for free! 12:00:48 impomatic: which books? 12:01:42 funny pic. it was a bit like this, but for one leg. so you were sitting quite relaxed with one palm on it writing. 12:01:55 anyway, I was just reading yesterday about Engelbart's Violin (http://www.loper-os.org/?p=861), microwriter was mentioned there 12:03:19 "FORTH: Elements of Programming Style", "Forth: Implementation and Application", "Inside F83", "Forth Floating Point", "F-PC Technical Reference Manual", "eForth and Zen" 12:04:54 hm. Don't think I have any of those. 12:06:19 well, microwriter seems to be a lot different from chord layout. the device I had heavily used literals on single keys, dual chords for less frequently used ones and so on. so writing was very comfortable and fast when used to it after some time 12:07:02 but interesting article 12:07:56 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:08:18 kulp: yup...I am writing my interpretter in x86 asm 12:08:41 Here are all the Forth books I currently have! https://twitter.com/john_metcalf/status/270577664019013632/photo/1 12:09:32 I have three of those 12:10:02 I also have Scientific Forth and "Designing and programming personal expert systems" which is kinda neat 12:10:37 the former is about numerical methods mostly and the latter is about essentially writing a prolog as a DSL in forth 12:11:02 wouldn't make a bad introductory AI text 12:11:48 it's difficult to top "Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach", but it doesn't use Forth 12:11:51 impomatic: wow i just saw your PE12 solution on your twitter 12:11:57 impomatic: fucking nice 12:12:02 I was wondering whether I should get the second one... 12:12:07 impomatic: nice enough i feel jealous, and that is not often 12:12:20 Protist: it can be shorter, but that's what I came up with first :-) 12:12:33 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 12:12:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 12:12:52 impomatic: i am not going to let myself really study your solution until i solve it 12:12:58 impomatic: but it sure looks impressive 12:13:31 I did a logo solution which takes a similar approach but is quite a bit longer 12:13:44 impomatic: retroprogramming is your website?....i have read a few things on there :D 12:14:06 impomatic: i was wondering why that name was familiar haha 12:14:09 protist: thanks :-) Yes, that's one of mine. 12:14:59 impomatic: you have an enjoyable blog. I have also read it on occasion. 12:15:07 I ought to update it really, but I've been busy moving house, packing, unpacking, etc. 12:16:00 At the moment I'm busy converting the garage so I can work from home. 12:18:01 "Forth: tools and applications" is a small but interesting book 12:18:46 talks about debugging and programming techniques with some utility routines and so on 12:18:54 some good ideas 12:19:57 RodgerTheGreat: thanks, just added it to my wishlist :-) 12:21:32 let me know what you think 12:22:21 amazon appears to have a copy for $8.25 12:22:40 I enjoyed Object Oriented Forth (even though I didn't expect to). 12:22:58 what would you say you came away from the book with? 12:23:03 Not on Amazon UK :-( It's £20 GBP. 12:23:17 aw. :/ 12:26:45 Well I enjoyed how OOF developed a simple program then refined it step by step. Also I learned vocabularies can actually be used for something! 12:31:06 interesting 12:39:45 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 12:43:18 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 12:54:52 Would there be any interest in a programming game written in Forth? Maybe like Core War or RobotWar? 12:55:35 if i want a macro in AT%T syntax to accept an argument like "hello" ....will it do that naturally? 12:55:51 i mean with quotes included 12:55:56 `"hello"' 13:02:03 ah figured out my problem 13:02:12 i was compiling the wrong file and running a.out 13:02:21 i wa wondering why it gave no errors hahaha 13:07:10 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@87.sub-70-194-66.myvzw.com) joined #forth 13:07:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 13:11:45 impomatic: I made a simple programming game in forth 13:11:53 it's nothing like corewar though 13:12:16 https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Mako/tree/master/games/Warrior 13:12:28 main problem is being tied to my goofy forth dialect 13:14:04 --- join: haole (~user@189.34.244.78) joined #forth 13:14:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v haole 13:15:14 hey there... I'm a forth newbie and I'm just practicing a little... I want to allocate some memory during runtime and put the address of the beggining of this allocated chunk in the stack... currently, I call HERE, save its value, do the allocation and put the saved value of HERE in the tos... is this safe? or is this stupid and there is a better way? 13:16:04 usually you do here N allot 13:16:07 allot does the allocation 13:16:12 or yu can do 13:16:16 I440r: that's exactly my code 13:16:17 create blah N allot 13:16:30 and now you can refer to blah to get the address of the data 13:16:49 the create stuff was giving me troubles during compilation 13:17:02 then you are doing it wrong :) 13:17:06 if I called the word that had create in it with some name after it, the compiler would complain because of the name 13:17:08 creat mydata 123 allot 13:17:11 I'm sure I'm doing it wrong :D 13:17:12 mydata 123 erase 13:17:18 it's something like this: 13:17:19 haole: be aware that both of those approaches will be allocating memory in dictionary space, which may not be what you want if you're dynamically allocating during runtime 13:17:32 : create-board create 123 allot ; 13:17:35 most forths meant to interact with an OS expose malloc and free 13:17:36 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 13:17:39 no 13:17:42 dont do it there 13:17:43 then I can call: create-board b 13:17:43 just say 13:17:52 it works in the interpreter, but not inside other words 13:18:30 RodgerTheGreat: thanks! I was not aware of this... I'm using gforth right now 13:18:36 impomatic: i am attempting to make macros for my primitives in my compiler, like how you did....I am in x86 AT&T though, and i cannot get a macro to accept an argument with quotes 13:18:48 impomatic: s/compiler/interpretter/ 13:18:57 ok are you trying to create a board or make a board creating word 13:19:01 how many boards do you need 13:19:09 if you only need one board do 13:19:13 create b 123 allot 13:19:20 outside of any : definition 13:19:31 (which is static allocation) 13:19:45 and what RodgerTheGreat was saying before is that there is a difference between alloting and allocating 13:20:08 not all forth implementations even have "allocate" 13:20:09 what's the downside of static allocation? I would guess it depends on the implementation and I would guess too that gforth ends up using dynamic allocated memory for it 13:20:23 static allocation is basically creating a singleton 13:20:46 like a global variable, but the name doesn't necessarily have to be "global" 13:20:59 : board create board-size allot ; looks fine though if you are going to be creating multiple boards 13:21:07 show me how you reference that 13:21:12 I440r: I think I'm gonna stick to the 'here' solution because the number of bytes I need to allot will only be revealed during runtime 13:22:08 : board ( size --- address) here swap allot ; 13:22:33 that looks great... I'm gonna do it with allocate later as an exercise 13:23:01 the difference between allot and allocatte is you cant free an allotment :) 13:23:16 other than by using forget etc 13:23:42 yeah- you can free alloted space, but not randomly- doing so will deallocate all later allocations 13:24:17 sometimes people call that sort of allocation scheme an "obstack" 13:24:18 when you do : foo .... ; the space for "foo" is alloted. basically 13:27:25 forth maintins a variable called "dp" which stands for dictionary pointer. the word "here" returns the address that dp points to : here dp @ ; basically 13:27:43 allot is : allot dp @ + dp ! ; or other variations on taht theme 13:28:19 the compiler in forth is a word called , (comma). its defeinition is : , here cell allot ! ; 13:28:34 or something along those lines basically 13:28:44 when you do create foo 13:29:03 foo returns its own address. so you can do create foo 123 allot then foo 123 erase 13:29:26 or some-data foo 123 cmove 13:29:29 etc etc 13:29:37 if you only need ONE board just do 13:29:52 oh errr the size of the board is run time not compile time 13:29:55 the dictionary grows downward and threaded inside of it is all the arrays, variables and word definitions you add 13:29:58 is there a max size of the board? 13:30:00 if so just do 13:30:05 create board max-size allot 13:30:24 sorry I was away a while 13:30:32 RodgerTheGreat, the dictionary grows upwards usually 13:30:34