00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.01.06 00:13:37 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.173) joined #forth 00:13:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 01:09:08 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 01:09:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 01:20:52 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 01:21:20 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.91.136) joined #forth 01:21:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman 02:26:14 --- quit: tgunr_ (Quit: Nity nite) 02:53:06 --- quit: Inode (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 03:19:46 --- join: Bahman_ (~Bahman@2.146.3.33) joined #forth 03:19:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman_ 03:20:30 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 03:25:38 --- join: azathoth991 (~g@pool-173-60-201-49.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) joined #forth 03:25:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v azathoth991 03:25:52 is it insane to try and use forth for web and cgi? 03:26:00 or even fascti or scgi? 03:26:08 fastcgi 03:29:11 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 04:30:49 hows forth in 2013? 04:30:56 whats everyone up to? 04:31:27 I'm up to about 180 over 140. 05:20:08 --- quit: azathoth991 (Quit: Leaving.) 05:20:14 --- join: Inode (~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net) joined #forth 05:20:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Inode 05:56:01 --- quit: MayDaniel () 06:00:35 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 06:00:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 06:48:31 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@46.208.50.63) joined #forth 06:48:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 07:05:16 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 07:05:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 07:39:52 --- join: ncv (~quassel@89.35.216.197) joined #forth 07:39:52 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 07:39:52 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 07:39:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 08:02:21 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 09:12:41 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-242.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 09:12:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 09:22:03 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 09:22:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 09:23:22 --- quit: fantazo (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09:58:04 --- join: regreg (~regreg@77.81.148.213) joined #forth 09:58:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v regreg 10:47:35 --- join: nal (~nal@173.215.251.14) joined #forth 10:47:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nal 10:48:13 --- nick: nal -> Kumul 10:57:45 --- join: _spt_ (~in@host-92-12-211-132.as43234.net) joined #forth 10:57:45 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 10:57:45 --- join: _spt_ (~in@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 10:57:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +v _spt_ 11:35:30 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: http://ukcaves.com) 11:38:38 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@240.sub-70-194-73.myvzw.com) joined #forth 11:38:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 11:38:59 pretty little bugs, all in a row.. 11:51:50 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 11:51:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre 11:52:30 --- join: tgunr_ (~davec@cust-66-249-166-11.static.o1.com) joined #forth 11:52:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr_ 12:12:37 --- quit: regreg (Remote host closed the connection) 12:12:53 --- quit: Kumul (Quit: Leaving) 12:19:17 --- join: impomatic (~digital_w@46.208.50.63) joined #forth 12:19:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 12:20:49 awful lot of slackers. 12:23:35 "ANS forth is the greatest thing since sliced Bread!" 12:27:36 PoppaVic: where's the quote from? 13:02:36 impomatic: well, I added it. Although, I did so as I recall several folks arguing that ANS has "saved forth" in one or another way. I usually fall down and laugh 13:08:27 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 13:48:59 --- part: impomatic left #forth 15:10:16 --- join: kumul (~kumul@173.215.251.14) joined #forth 15:10:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kumul 15:32:54 --- quit: nighty^ (Remote host closed the connection) 15:57:32 poppavic: i don't like bread, so that statement could be true 15:57:51 --- join: Onionnion|Eee (~ryan@adsl-68-254-171-79.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 15:57:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion|Eee 16:00:07 hi, segher ;-) 16:00:34 it is Good that a standard was created to unify what people can expect froma Forth system. Very Very Good, even 16:00:57 too bad that most people interpret it as "any system needs to do all of this and even all suggestions too" 16:01:07 I think that basic premise - much like the BoR and const. - has value. 16:01:14 that's a pretty good way to sum it up 16:01:17 BoR? 16:01:29 bill-of-rights 16:01:40 oh, some foreign politics stuff 16:02:34 <_spt_> any one use Forth in the UK? 16:02:51 i *really* like that my code is mostly portable between systems if i take some basic precautions 16:03:31 with the 79/83/fig/32 chaos there was no such thing 16:03:54 most of the ANS was politics as well. 16:04:08 but all of that is optional :-) 16:04:52 I have to admit, I don't study it hard anymore. I used to care, and then I stopped. 16:05:15 just make sure you have the core of it in your bones :-) 16:05:44 shit like "thou shalt keep the return stack balanced, or die a horrible horrible death" 16:06:10 segher: well, it's self-correcting ;-) 16:06:15 heh 16:06:43 some more subtle things do not blow up on all systems, unfortunately 16:07:12 things like redefining IF 16:07:15 true, but I never had a "delicate hand" with forth. Shit works, or it's broke. Fix it, or walk away. 16:07:24 sure 16:07:34 and it is totally FINE to have non-portable code 16:07:37 <_spt_> whats the best way to learn forth, Ar there any user groups in the UK? 16:07:56 that's another big misunderstanding people have about the iso Forth std 16:08:43 segher: "portable" is great, and useful - hacking out the job is often more important (as proven by terabytes of java and js and ruby and python and whatnot) 16:09:29 don't bring up junk code as example please, i don't care about that 16:10:09 i really only care about my own code, but don't tell anyone else ;-) 16:10:29 I can't read it, either - but it sure seems to please many 16:10:59 interestingly you put those four in order of reading incomprehension for me 16:11:12 i *really* cannot read python 16:11:30 I just snagged names out of the air - those are the names I usually hear when folks claim C is too dangerous 16:11:38 i just don't understand what the fuck shit is trying to say in python 16:12:13 it's supposed to be really easy, heh 16:12:22 spt i used to :) 16:12:27 use forth in the uk i mean 16:12:49 I tried python a few times. It's not comfortable to me 16:13:00 if I had a dime for every time somebody told me Python is "basically pseudocode" I could buy my own island 16:13:14 <_spt_> I440r: what did you do with it? 16:13:38 poppavic: i can *read* most languages. but not python. befunge is easier! 16:13:42 i worked for joy mining machenery. they make longwall coal mining roof support systems that are coded in forth 16:14:22 segher: I'd rather try to read published forth - at least I care about forth. It's depressing, so I usually stick to C. 16:14:56 most published Forth code is really bad code. it's depressing alright. 16:15:07 <_spt_> Are there any active Forth groups in the UK? 16:15:07 but the same goes for C, heh 16:15:25 segher because its ans and BECAUSE ITS CODED LIKE THIS and because they always use clusterfuck formatting 16:15:34 segher: fortunately, with C I can often fake what I need 16:15:58 i4: Yes. I dunno why they insist on such clusterfucked formatting. 16:16:07 i440r: they actually format shit, yeah. they need to because they do not factor 16:16:18 segher, no. they 16:16:20 dont 16:16:21 my pet peeve is books that use variable width fonts in addition to all caps 16:16:22 format 16:16:24 code 16:16:27 heh 16:16:34 they scatterbrain clusterfuck format it 16:16:39 : i-never format any code ; 16:17:07 segher: I tend to retain my same vertical-aligned format as in C. 16:17:09 segher formatting like that is a holdover from block file days. you HAD to with them 16:17:11 : caps IF structure-word THEN use-caps ; 16:17:22 thats equally unreadable 16:17:31 not to me :-) 16:17:33 cram as much as you can onto one line. cram as much as you can into 25 lines 16:17:38 no 16:17:44 I'd accept that due to the overal size of the word 16:18:04 don't have more than about five or six words per definitions 16:18:08 I do everything in lowercase and on the occasion that a multiword name is sensible I separate words with dashes like-this 16:18:20 i4: I used block files in the long ago, and both F83 and FPC used a neater format than much of the crap today. 16:18:20 segher your an exception to the rule :) 16:18:24 essentially I use scheme-style identifiers 16:18:34 except I use symbols sometimes 16:18:38 >thing 16:18:48 mindyou, once "shadow blocks" became popular it helped as well 16:18:51 s>i 16:18:55 ptr@ 16:18:57 etc 16:18:58 i440r: i know. and the solution to unreadably long definitions is not some stupid layout rules. just make the defs smaller, duh! 16:19:16 segher have you read my blurb on source formatting on isforth.com? 16:19:23 dunno? 16:19:34 http://www.isforth.com/docs.php?t=format 16:19:37 <_spt_> what would be the best place to learn about Forth? 16:19:47 you have to keep hitting the 'next" button at bottom right 16:19:54 spt right here :) 16:20:01 spt: use it. seriously. 16:20:06 the tangletya or whatever site, since FIG is defunct 16:20:15 it is? 16:20:19 skip carter die? 16:20:34 well, I call it defunct - do they still publish? 16:20:52 i got no idea. skip used to frequent this irc service but not this channel :) 16:20:59 has there been a NEW FIG-forth in over 20 years? 16:21:49 <_spt_> I was looking at gForth? any comments on that? 16:22:08 PoppaVic, why would there be 16:22:33 spt ill refrain from frothing at the mouthh and calling gforth NOT forth hehe. 16:22:39 other people here like it some 16:22:47 spt can you code asm? 16:22:54 <_spt_> z80 16:23:07 that counts. you wont have any difficulty reading x86 then 16:23:26 www.isforth.com click on download and grab isforth sources and read them even if you dont use linux 16:23:31 gforth is huge and complicated but it has decent docs and is easy to get running on whatever machine you have 16:23:47 im going to be doing an update to that pretty soon that fixes a bunch of bugs and tidies a crapload of stuff up 16:24:06 RodgerTheGreat, but its not forth :P~ lol 16:24:11 sorry couldnt resist 16:24:14 you said you were going to behave 16:24:18 lol 16:24:21 oopts 16:24:26 gforth is prolly the closet to "ANS Forth' out. PFE is damned useful. Pforth is interesting. Carry on. 16:24:35 i440r: i agree with most of it. not with any of the actual recommendations (put a line at the end of file, lol. some people use Real Editors :-P ), but with all of the philosophy anyway :-) 16:24:58 segher thats there for ME as a visual indication where the EOF is 16:25:02 if you just want to be able to fiddle around with forth RIGHT NOW, http://repl.it/ has JS-Forth 16:25:09 it's very convenient to play with 16:25:09 vi shows me just fine :-) 16:25:17 and i use sublime text 2 which is probably the greatest source editor ever devised by man 16:25:30 segher: I don't believe I've had rabies shots, jsut tetanus - so I stand clear of i4 ;-) 16:25:34 same with tabs and spaces -- not that i ever use tabs in Forth code 16:25:47 RodgerTheGreat, i was developing an irc bot in forth that i intened to expose the forth api to #forth :) 16:25:53 as a way of learning the language 16:25:56 spiffy 16:26:01 didnt finish it :/ 16:26:09 it would probably crash all the time 16:26:39 <_spt_> ok, thanks I will have a look at isforth - time for work. I'll pop in here tomorow with afew Forth questions 16:26:40 no i would seal the irc interface into a speical vocabulary that only exposed parts of the system 16:26:41 @forthbot 10000000 0 do 42 i ! loop 16:26:55 that wouldnt crash it 16:27:04 oh 16:27:10 that would segfault IF i allowed it lol 16:27:16 hope you didn't have anything important in that memory 16:27:30 --- part: _spt_ left #forth 16:27:38 --- quit: ncv (Remote host closed the connection) 16:27:48 webside it, sandboxed, like ideone and such talk to pragma about his candide bot. 16:28:08 : uh-oh BEGIN 0 AGAIN ; 16:28:10 the answer tho is for the bot to spawn a new instance of itself on a per user bases but only have one instance of itself in here - i.e. the bot would give you a path to forth but you can only crash yur instance of forth not the bot 16:28:40 segher isforths stack is not grows down that would segfault fairly quick 16:29:00 that's its purpose, heh 16:29:17 I440r: yeah, that's a good way to do it 16:29:20 how about : evil BEGIN AGAIN ; 16:29:28 but if the bot only spawned a new instance of for for you all you would do is crash your instance 16:30:04 and the bot could also monitor those instances using something like top to see when those instances were locked up and eating all the cpu pie :P~ 16:30:14 yea thers security issues i would have to address 16:30:29 that's Hard 16:30:43 we do these things, not because they are easy... . . . 16:31:02 but because they are profitable! 16:31:05 it's the bloody Real World. i hate the real world, it's hard to control :-) 16:31:11 segher as for my ====== and the end of every file go look at some of my source files and tell me they dont look WAY fucking better than almost any other file you ever looked at 16:31:30 segher: meatspace is a horrib;le place to visit 16:31:38 oh i'm not saying they don't. just not _my_ style :-) 16:31:39 segher my irc quit message years back was "Reality Strikes Again!" 16:32:13 i dunno about meatspace, it sounds appealing. i'm scared of the big blue room though. 16:33:02 metaspace... is that where metacompilers compile to? 16:33:59 I would like such a compiler 16:34:11 "meat"-"space" - it's where fleshy-squishy-noisy-fragile shit oozes along 16:56:21 --- quit: kumul (Quit: Leaving) 17:04:42 --- join: protist (~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 17:04:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 17:07:13 --- join: kumul (~kumul@173.215.251.14) joined #forth 17:07:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kumul 17:28:26 --- join: c00kiemon5ter (~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter) joined #forth 17:28:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +v c00kiemon5ter 17:36:28 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21:49:44 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@cm-171-98-97-11.revip7.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 21:49:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 22:00:55 --- quit: Onionnion|Eee (Quit: Leaving) 23:18:25 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 23:58:53 --- quit: c00kiemon5ter (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.01.06