00:00:00 --- log: started forth/13.01.02 00:15:22 --- join: cratuki (~Craig@leaf.vm.bytemark.co.uk) joined #forth 00:15:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +v cratuki 00:32:21 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.173) joined #forth 00:32:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 00:49:48 --- quit: Onionnion|Eee (Quit: Leaving) 01:04:04 --- join: anannie (~anannie@unaffiliated/anannie) joined #forth 01:04:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +v anannie 02:10:57 --- join: liqo (~rixard@host-95-199-203-174.mobileonline.telia.com) joined #forth 02:10:57 --- mode: ChanServ set +v liqo 02:15:05 --- quit: liqo (Client Quit) 04:00:09 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 04:00:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 04:16:14 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:03:38 --- quit: Sgeo (Read error: Operation timed out) 06:28:43 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:39:11 --- join: kumul (~kumul@67.224.165.150) joined #forth 06:39:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kumul 07:20:13 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: No route to host) 07:28:18 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net) joined #forth 07:28:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty^ 08:02:48 --- join: protist (~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 08:02:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v protist 08:02:55 anannie: hello :) 08:34:27 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.173) joined #forth 08:34:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 08:35:54 protist: Hey protist 08:36:14 anannie: did you do problem 10? :) 08:36:31 Not yet protist, I had to run errands 08:42:29 ah....I think I just converted someone to Forth :D 08:42:44 he was interested in low-level things...so i told him about `see' 08:43:50 omg it's full of assembly 08:43:58 er, assembler 08:44:24 I guess I had it ok the first time :/ 08:45:58 had what ok? 08:48:25 protist: "assembly" vs "assembler" 08:49:04 dzho: that distinction is bothersome....assembler seems to be used to mean different things 08:49:10 dzho: tell me what you mean :) 08:49:49 protist: you were talking about "see" and so I was just playing with the idea that it can show you assembly code 08:53:56 ah....sometimes assembly means something that produces assembly?....and others it is the thing that takes assembly and produces the object file before linking 08:54:18 and so it bothers me sometimes....unless maybe i have just misread some things 09:11:00 good going protist ! i tried to convert someone... that ended badly 09:11:18 kumul: haha :) 09:12:18 kumul: see sounds like the most interesting feature of Forth that a non-Forther can immediately appreciate 09:12:50 isnt it the same as looking at stdlib.h or w\e its called? 09:13:12 i suppose, but that is more of a pain than see 09:13:19 documentation is sometimes better, my code is a pain to read 09:13:27 if you have an interpretter and see...then you have a playground 09:13:55 i guess so 09:14:20 ah well...we'll see how this guy feels in a week ;) 09:15:15 I've gotta head out I'll see yahl later 09:16:22 --- quit: protist (Quit: leaving) 09:26:41 anannie: how did you do problem 3? 09:27:17 kumul: Do you want my solution? 09:29:09 I suggest reviewing math if you are having trouble kumul 09:37:31 argh, ficl doesnt support double numbers, bah! 09:37:39 no worries anannie 09:40:05 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 09:44:07 --- join: Onionnion|Eee (~ryan@68.254.166.23) joined #forth 09:44:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion|Eee 09:44:25 hey Onionnion|Eee 09:44:41 the Eee has become extinct 09:45:05 out of production? 09:45:14 http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/kolmogorov_directions.png 09:47:46 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 09:47:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 09:48:13 yep 09:51:57 http://www.businessinsider.com/sayonara-netbooks-asus-and-the-rest-wont-make-any-more-in-2013-2013-1?0=sai 09:52:02 ah 09:52:08 god that took a while to search for 09:54:01 everything i want goes bankrupt, this reminds me of the dreamcast 09:54:54 I want a Ruger 10/22 and all the bs against guns going around scares me of if this will be illegal soon 09:55:32 it wont be, calm down 09:56:09 i think this should be by state or something, you should be able to have guns to hunt at least, but in the city... that should be illegal 09:56:54 Onionnion|Eee: do you live in the city? 09:57:37 um not IN a city, but outside it, urban 09:58:45 and yeah..where they're going? This is just round 1 of gun control. 09:58:59 have they actually done anything? 09:59:12 trying to 10:00:10 Onionnion|Eee: what will you do with a gun though 10:00:11 ? 10:00:45 the media is completely manipulating peoples' views, and there's an extremely powerful "Assault Weapons Ban" (even though that doesn't define anything specific) 10:02:56 What will I do? Support my right to bear arms, learn to shoot and the values that come with it, and be ready to possibly save a life if the moment arrives (when I'm 21 and can conceal carry), or even in the future if anything..*bigger*..arises. 10:04:50 so nothing of worth, a past-time of sorts? 10:05:34 s/?// 10:07:44 yes, that, too 10:08:00 I also want to shoot as a hobby 10:08:09 not hunt, though, just not me 10:20:04 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-220-227.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 10:20:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 10:20:07 are you an angry person? 10:28:57 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 10:34:42 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 10:35:20 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 10:35:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 10:36:11 no 10:36:15 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 10:36:32 against people who want to violate my Rights? yes, but in general no 10:38:45 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 10:38:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 10:39:13 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 10:39:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 11:35:19 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@230.sub-70-194-73.myvzw.com) joined #forth 11:35:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 12:17:58 --- join: sunwukong (~vukung@78.139.3.238) joined #forth 12:17:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +v sunwukong 12:24:00 --- join: _spt_ (~in@host-92-12-223-242.as43234.net) joined #forth 12:24:00 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 12:24:00 --- join: _spt_ (~in@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 12:24:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +v _spt_ 12:26:30 --- quit: sunwukong (Remote host closed the connection) 12:55:24 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-13.static.o1.com) joined #forth 12:55:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 13:44:46 why dont you join the military? you can shoot there all day as a hobby 13:44:51 free bullets too Onionnion|Eee 13:49:34 --- quit: epicmonkey (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 14:11:40 --- quit: anannie (Remote host closed the connection) 14:12:45 --- join: anannie (~anannie@unaffiliated/anannie) joined #forth 14:12:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +v anannie 14:14:06 --- quit: anannie (Remote host closed the connection) 14:36:20 --- part: _spt_ left #forth 15:03:24 --- join: anannie (~anannie@unaffiliated/anannie) joined #forth 15:03:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v anannie 15:06:19 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 15:06:51 --- quit: I440r (Quit: Leaving) 15:18:40 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 15:18:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 15:18:44 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@230.sub-70-194-73.myvzw.com) joined #forth 15:18:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 15:24:17 well, I'm parked. Eventually I won't feel like I am still bouncingalong the road 15:27:19 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-242.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 15:27:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 15:45:50 --- quit: karswell (Remote host closed the connection) 15:56:05 --- join: karswell (~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk) joined #forth 15:56:05 --- mode: ChanServ set +v karswell 15:57:37 i like doing long distance drives 15:57:47 i drove 300 miles for xmas and then 300 miles back 15:58:15 I'm getting more used to it, but I can't say I enjoy it. 15:58:35 while living in san antonio i got a contract in san jose. drove it in 3 days. worked first day, got there second day and was told they didnt want me any more (the nature of contract work). drove all the way back 15:58:40 kumul, I have other goals and directions in life. it is a great option, but just not for me 15:58:40 long road trips always make me think of oregon trail for some reason 15:58:42 --- quit: Onionnion|Eee (Quit: Leaving) 16:00:09 I get tired of bouncing in the seat; the controlled tension/fear as trucks and cars zip fast; watching gauges and gps and traffic from every direction except orbital. 16:03:25 still, it beats california. 16:08:20 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:28:25 --- quit: tgunr (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 19:04:20 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-13.static.o1.com) joined #forth 19:04:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 19:06:05 so, is it a party, yet? 19:09:18 WOOHOHOO MARDIGRRA WOOOOO 19:11:36 Well, I meant code, bugs, beer - you know.. (Bugbombs are for indoors) 19:14:31 i am disappoint 19:15:23 yes, you are! ;-) 19:29:18 on SOME terminals cursor keys do not work. the fix is to output a smkx escape sequence. i am not sure what terminals this is needed for other than my xfce terminal does 19:29:45 so instead of trying to find out if it is required i implemented a custom rc file load just prior to isforth jumping to quit 19:30:00 i put the smkx in that file :) 19:30:18 so now i have a custom rc file that users can add forth commands to to set up their system 19:30:52 eventually i will implement fload search paths so users can type fload myproj.f and as long as that file is in the path it will be loaded :) 19:30:53 the fix is to not use sucky terminals 19:31:12 soon as someone writes a terminal emulator that 19:31:17 a: has tabs and 19:31:19 b: doesnt suck 19:31:22 ill use it 19:31:27 ALL terminal emulators suck 19:31:32 this is why the world never progresses, people keep giving in to bloat 19:31:48 actually i use every terminal i can get my hands on 19:32:00 i need to test everything works in ALL of them 19:32:10 oooh i should test isforth under screen again 19:33:25 which terminals though? 19:33:29 btw 19:33:34 actually they are terminal emulators 19:33:48 terminals are the real deal, the actual vt100 hardware for example 19:33:58 xterm is a vt220 emulator i believe 19:34:06 yeah but that's dead 19:34:20 * ttmrichter is holding out for a VT400 terminal. 19:34:49 I440r: which terminal is broken (doesnt have tabs?) 19:34:51 bloat!bloat!bloat! squeeeal! ;-) 19:34:52 xterm is alive and kicking unfortunately. and even worse 19:35:09 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 19:35:13 there are many many many terminals that set TERM=xterm for themselves 19:35:21 and they do not even come close to emulating xterm 19:35:32 gnome terminal. color black is not 0, its 15 19:35:42 yupo,and I love ansi control-seqs ;..and vt100, 1021.etc 19:35:55 linux terminal. for some reason turning on the alt charset (box chars) fails 19:35:58 yeah but that isnt xterm's fault, and actually i use xterm, nothing annoying about it... except that its impossible to configure 19:36:20 various terminals fail to supply an sgr format string in their terminfo but do supply an sgr0 19:36:27 Why don't you troll eBay for a VT100 or related and get the real deal? 19:36:29 so either i hard code every terminals sgr or 19:36:56 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-13.static.o1.com) joined #forth 19:36:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 19:37:01 the only reliable way to turn OFF any given attribute is to turn off ALL attributes, reset fg and bg to defaults and then put everything other than the item i wanted to change back to its state prior to the change 19:37:32 the single slowest thing you can do in a terminal is change color or change bold or change underline (attributes) etc 19:38:05 which is why both myself and ncurses set one attribute then do cursor bouncing to every char on the display of that attribute and output them all 19:38:18 and then change to the attribute of the next char and then output all chars of taht attribute 19:38:20 etc etc etc 19:38:31 cursor bouncing all over the map is faster than going from bold to not bold 19:39:04 so pretty much every single terminal in existance is broken in som wauy 19:39:25 specially screen.screens terminfo is so fucked up ill never support running isforth inside a screen session 19:41:45 I'm not even sure that libvte and such actually make that any easier. 19:42:11 libvte is what gnome terminal uses. i think xfce also uses it 19:42:23 I440r: I would point out that programs like midnight-commander manage their splitscreen at decent speeds. 19:42:27 and it is one of the ones that claims its an xterm and is about a billion miles away from being one 19:42:40 mc uses ncurses 19:42:42 what about something like aterm? 19:42:53 ncurses is a software engineering marvel 19:42:56 of course it uses curses 19:43:00 aterm is an rxvt 19:43:20 so is wterm i believe 19:43:33 or.. an rxvt ISH terminal approximation 19:43:35 as much as GNU wishes they could claim it, curses isn't theirs - never was.. Also remains a horror to code for. 19:43:36 aterm doesnt even support utf8, so dont use it 19:44:47 its also not as fast as xterm 19:44:52 or as clean looking 19:45:23 st is supposedly a good emulator, thats how they started, now not so much 19:45:42 actually aterm sets TERM=xterm 19:45:53 suckless terminal is a pile of shit 19:46:02 everything by suckless suks more 19:46:18 the suckless guys are madly in love with themselves 19:48:04 everything i use is suckless, dmenu dwm ii and other things, are you really sure about that? 19:48:26 no wtf aterm does set ter = rxvt 19:59:52 go look at their sources to see utter suckage 20:03:19 st is quite nice atm though, it is as responsive as xterm, it really sucked before, i could go for a run if i dared scroll 20:03:44 I440r: what are you talking about atm? 20:04:02 rxvt or aterm? 20:06:13 aterm. aterm sets TERM=rxvt 20:06:25 for a sec i thought it set it to xterm like every other liar out there 20:07:16 hehehahaha - yer just so ANTI (or aunty - depending) 20:09:14 experience tells me that the people who develop terminal emulators get lazy with their terminfo and just pick an already existing one that is close 20:11:18 hahahahahaha 20:11:38 Terminfo was another thing - and termcap - that GNU couldn't grab.. They tried ;-) 20:12:16 termcap was developed by the guy that wrote vi 20:12:30 terminfo was an update to termcap and ncurses pretty much owns both of those now 20:12:43 most distros mangle their own versions of terminfo 20:12:56 I understand it's "udderly" horrible (termcap), but no one has anything significantly better. 20:13:04 like debian. pushing the most common terminfos into /lib/terminfo instead of in /usr/terminfo where they ALL belong 20:13:19 I suppose I have labored under the blissfully ignorant illusion that terminals were a solved problem 20:13:32 terminfo is better than termcap but thers no standard on the minimum set of format strings and capabilities that they need to list 20:13:33 i mean 20:13:39 yes, believing that was silly ;-) 20:13:59 nearly everything in computers ends up being like that 20:13:59 every terminal supports the sgr escape sequence. most of them neglectt to supply a format string for it even though they all supply the sgr0 20:14:07 majorly STUPID of them too 20:14:12 bordering on moronic 20:14:44 well, it's like documentation and updates/fixes.. Most folks refuse to document, and they drop WORKS because it needs work, for NEW that is supposed to be Better 20:14:48 personally i think every terminal needs to supply a format string for every single escape sequence they support 20:14:56 that should be the minimum 20:15:28 You should see the "documentation" for my little COG 3-line display.. 20:35:16 wheres a good place to post an open letter 20:36:44 google, of course! ;-) 20:37:04 no they would delete it 20:37:06 "Now all restaurants are Taco Bell!" ;-) 20:49:37 www.isforth.com/open_letter.txt 20:49:43 not posted it anywhere yet tho 20:58:57 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 21:05:46 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@157.sub-70-194-72.myvzw.com) joined #forth 21:05:46 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 21:08:27 most states now have owners/advocate groups for ownership - they are slashing the shit out of liberal lies/agenda - check yer state ;-) 21:10:13 im in illAnnoy remember 21:10:16 for now 21:10:29 dad was working on a permit when he died.. #3son had a permit; Neice was working on it., but felt that having one would conflict getting her teaching-positions (no tenure yet), etc 21:10:51 Well, there is a reason I didn't linger in illi 21:13:42 --- quit: anannie (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 21:14:24 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 22:11:49 --- quit: kumul (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2) 22:13:50 --- join: kumul (~kumul@67.224.165.150) joined #forth 22:13:50 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kumul 22:45:29 --- quit: proteusguy (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 23:12:45 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@cm-171-98-97-11.revip7.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 23:12:45 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 23:32:03 --- quit: kumul (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/13.01.02