00:00:00 --- log: started forth/12.12.31 00:00:22 it would require i write a linker and an translation layer from forth parameter passing to C parameter passing and back again 00:01:33 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 00:01:34 might be easier to just open up a 2way pipe and exec a small C program, using dlopen and friends. 00:02:06 I truly doubt you want C mucking yer registers/stack space 00:02:49 PoppaVic, that would be like how windows does shit :P 00:02:54 and how gcc does it 00:02:55 ugh 00:03:52 hey, go mad.. I'm safe ;-) 00:07:09 lol 00:07:22 why would you want the FFI...it can all be done in Forth 00:07:26 its VERY low on muy todo list... right above that other important item stated earlier :P~ 00:22:01 protist, exactly why i never wrote one so far 00:22:21 but what if you need an Xlib interface.... an ffi would give you one if you had it 00:22:29 and the ffi would probably be way easier to create 00:22:42 btw x protocol is higher up on my todo list :P 00:26:23 ah :D 00:26:27 i see 00:28:05 there are a lot of C libraries available that could come in handy 00:28:22 and sometimes you have a 1 shot need so you dont write the lib in forth u use the C version.... 00:28:29 except im trying to discourage that :P 00:29:57 anyway. its 2 freeking AM wtf 00:30:07 2:30 lol 00:30:13 im gona log 00:30:31 need to fix my debugger and my #! shit then i can release a new version 00:30:45 alright 00:30:48 cya later :) 00:30:55 probably :) 00:31:02 likely 00:31:16 this channel has gained some sort of new lease on life lol 00:31:36 i blame anannie. nothing like a young female to get guys blood pumping again :P~ 00:31:47 nite ppl 00:31:50 Thank you I440r 00:31:52 :) 00:31:54 oh hi lol 00:32:00 isda troof! 00:32:11 * anannie bows 00:32:14 nite :) 00:32:18 I'm glad that I could have been of service 00:32:20 goodnight! 00:32:37 its good that the channel is active again, with people who are interested in the language 00:32:47 even if 99% of our idle chatter is on OTHER subjects :{P 00:32:49 :P~ even 00:33:00 but anyway i need to zone out lol 00:33:08 ididnt realise it was this "early" :) 00:33:13 --- quit: I440r (Quit: bbl) 00:34:30 anannie: yeah this channel was seriously completely dead for weeks....maybe 30 lines of talking in the last month that I saw 00:34:49 anannie: i just sat in here because i love Forth to dearly to leave her channel 00:34:50 I'm glad that I could help bring it back to life protist 00:35:00 too* 00:36:19 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 00:36:23 anannie: what are you up to? 00:37:05 protist: Right now? I'm doing Ruby and I plan to master it before I move on to Forth. I'm trying to implement HashLife 00:37:17 * ttmrichter shudders at the R-word. 00:38:28 anannie: your pe problem 6 didn't look like what I imagine Ruby to look like...what language was that? 00:38:45 It was ruby 00:39:24 ah weird 00:39:31 i thought Ruby looked like Perl 00:40:00 I'm still learning it, but ruby does indeed look incomprehensible once you start learning all of the tricks and so on 00:40:45 anannie: it doesn't look nearly as intimidating as most of the Perl I write 00:40:46 :) 00:41:13 protist: Ruby is supposed to be about clarity 00:41:35 * ttmrichter snickers at the clarity part. 00:42:00 anannie: i am also under the impression that Ruby has fancy regexes as well? 00:42:01 With the rampant abuse of monkey-patching that goes on in Ruby circles, clarity was lost ages ago. 00:42:13 anannie: Perl has the fanciest of all, though :) 00:42:18 ttmrichter: I have no clue 00:42:25 yes it does protist 00:43:06 anannie: ruby has fancy regex?...or Perl has fanciest of all? :P 00:43:22 anannie: and i assume you live in the UK? 00:43:34 protist: That ruby has fancy regex. I don't know enough about regex to comment if Perl has the fanciest of all 00:43:43 protist: and what makes you assume that? 00:44:13 anannie: you said `headdesk' in your comments....I can't imagine an American saying that 00:44:28 anannie: move from the US to New Zealand recently 00:45:00 i moved* 00:47:15 Well yes I learned English from the English ;) 00:47:30 so secretive :P 00:48:41 anannie: If you like Forth, look at Factor, especially for higher level applications 00:50:56 tgunr_: I've just started learning Forth and programming itself, so it will be a while before I get there. Right now I'm trying to learn a single language and get it under my belt, before moving on to Forth and implementing the Game of Life as a sort of rosetta 00:52:03 anannie: you said you are learning programming for robotics? 00:52:11 Ah, but the problem with an extensible language like Forth or Factor is that you will never learn it all :) 00:52:12 protist: Yes 00:52:45 weird, the 2nd girl I've met recently interested in robotics 00:52:55 tgunr_: Oh? 00:54:30 afk food 00:54:35 If robotics, then Forth is probably the route for you 00:55:06 Although there are a lot of nice constructs in Factor that would be nice in Forth 00:56:50 tgunr_: I never really got the entire Forth v.s. C thing 00:56:59 Why do people talk about C more? 00:57:22 That, is an excellent question! 00:57:38 C is a typed language, Forth is not 00:57:38 Because C was tied to Unix. 00:58:21 Some folks like to have the compiler tell them they are making a mistake 00:59:31 But in the case of an application where resource constraints are high doesn't something like Forth make a lot of sense? 00:59:53 In Forth I can create a VARIABLE and treat it like a pointer in one case or a boolean in a different case. C would complain to high heaven you can;t do that! 01:00:07 Absolutely 01:00:28 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@static.88-198-159-196.clients.your-server.de) joined #forth 01:00:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman 01:01:18 You could always correct the data in C or typecast it so it doesn't complain, but then you have immediately removed the reason for using a typed language 01:01:42 s/correct/coerce 01:03:42 Take a look at this paper by the founder: http://www.colorforth.com/POL.htm 01:03:51 I don't really understand typed languages v.s. untyped languages. What are the actual ramifications of the decision? 01:03:54 * anannie clicks 01:05:14 A typed language CAN prevent a lot of newbie mistakes by having the compiler validate the usage of data is not being mistaked for another. 01:05:51 A typed language can prevent a lot more than just newbie mistakes. 01:06:15 A sufficiently powerful type system (read: not C's nor its relatives) can prove code correct, not merely rescue you from simple errors. 01:06:49 It all depends on the problem your trying to solve 01:06:55 Precisely. 01:07:02 Which is why there's no silver bullet in software. 01:07:28 When I am down low level close to the metal I don't want or need data typing 01:07:28 People who cling to C (or C++ (or Java (or Ruby (or ...)))) as the end-all, be-all of computing are ridiculous. 01:07:42 absolutely agree 01:08:35 on the other side, I also program in Prograph/Marten which is a very high level language http://andescotia.com 01:09:39 ttmrichter which is why I am learning Factor, I like it as a higher level tool than Forth can offer 01:10:12 Well, Forth "could" offer the same, it just hash;t done so yet. :) 01:10:44 ttmrichter: I think that people are beguiled by the familiar into making the mistake of using inappropriate tools when it comes to the unknown 01:11:01 anannie: That's the problem in a nutshell, yes. 01:12:35 Another one to keep your eye one is Flow http://www.flowlang.net 01:15:52 yay, the channel is alive! 01:16:33 I had a nice chat some time ago, but this, multiple lines of friendly chatter :-) 01:18:11 yes, there are vast times between the ebb and tides here 01:19:03 I haven't been on here for a very long time, only recognize two nicks here 01:21:47 friendly strangers is ok too ;-) 01:22:27 I am new to Forth, well actually programming in it, I have known about it for a long time. Always thought it was an interesting and somewhat quirky language. I think it fits my brain quite well. 01:22:57 --- quit: epicmonkey (Read error: Operation timed out) 01:23:38 As I was telling a nannie, look at http://factorcode.org if you like Forth 01:23:49 Forth on steroids 01:25:15 Cool, I'll check it out. 01:25:31 the reason I started looking into Forth recently was that I wanted to give microcontrollers a try. 01:25:46 Ah, then Forth would be better choice 01:26:07 indeed, but if I want to do something for desktops, Factor might be the better choice. 01:26:08 Factor is for higher level apps IMHO 01:26:13 yeah 01:27:03 yes, I'm working on making an app and the nice part, it will be cross platform 01:28:30 :-) 01:28:37 what kinda app are you working on? 01:29:30 Rewriting one of my Macintosh apps http://PickADisk.com 01:34:00 Cool 01:37:35 --- nick: Sgeo -> Sgeo_ 01:38:14 --- nick: Sgeo_ -> Sgeo 01:38:28 time to hit the real world, talk later. 01:48:27 --- quit: tgunr_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 01:50:48 --- join: tgunr_ (~davec@cust-66-249-166-13.static.o1.com) joined #forth 01:50:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr_ 01:57:21 tgunr_: Is there any actual substance to the Flow stuff? 01:57:35 'Cause right now I'm not even seeing "this is what the source might look like" material. 01:58:16 The guy is promising something in a public repository soon, will see. Interesting paper though 01:59:00 Problem is that right now it just looks like a cross between a letter to Santa and a laundry list. 01:59:17 LOL 02:01:44 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 02:02:29 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 02:02:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 02:39:02 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 04:00:08 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 04:00:08 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 04:50:34 --- join: rixard_ (~rixard@81-235-139-119-no63.tbcn.telia.com) joined #forth 04:50:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +v rixard_ 04:53:12 --- quit: rixard (Read error: Operation timed out) 04:53:12 --- nick: rixard_ -> rixard 06:38:13 --- quit: Nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 07:34:39 --- join: kumul (~kumul@67.224.165.150) joined #forth 07:34:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kumul 07:41:21 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-92-100.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 07:41:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteusguy 08:00:40 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@240.sub-70-194-73.myvzw.com) joined #forth 08:00:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 09:23:33 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 09:23:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 09:41:17 --- join: ASau (~user@217.118.90.254) joined #forth 09:41:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 09:51:06 --- join: andrewjbaker (~ajb@5ad5048d.bb.sky.com) joined #forth 09:51:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v andrewjbaker 09:52:33 When I type... SEE DUP in Gforth 0.7.0, it prints Code dup and then locks up. Is this a bug? Can someone explain why it's locking up? 09:56:32 sounds like a bug to me 09:57:23 Yep - just did it to me. It's a code word and it must lock up trying to run the unassembler 09:58:05 OK, let me see if I can raise it on a bugtracker somewhere... 09:59:03 Cheers PoppaVic. 10:01:03 I wish they'd de-tinker gforth to use llvm, rather than that thingie they cobbled up.. Frightening stuff. 10:01:23 ^^ 11:23:21 --- quit: Bahman (Quit: .zZ) 11:56:24 --- quit: andrewjbaker (Quit: Leaving) 12:56:28 --- quit: tgunr_ (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 12:57:44 --- join: tgunr_ (~davec@cust-66-249-166-13.static.o1.com) joined #forth 12:57:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr_ 13:01:43 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@static.88-198-159-196.clients.your-server.de) joined #forth 13:01:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman 13:05:23 ok, exceptions still blow goats. 13:16:22 --- quit: ASau (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 13:23:45 hmm.. acer has a google chrome-book for 200$. I wonder if I can slap ubuntu on it.. 13:37:54 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:46:54 PoppaVic: i think it is possible...but it is a pain? 13:47:02 PoppaVic: i think those run on ARM 13:48:38 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@2.146.165.166) joined #forth 13:48:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman 13:50:22 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 13:56:33 protist: well, I will be lap-less for about 2 weeks when I ship off the toshiba, and the poor ol' thinkpad died last month. I need a cheapie for the simple things.. edit, compile; surf, etc.. BTW, I am really unimpressed with 17" lappies - very fragile and awkward sized 13:58:30 i would not consider a 17" laptop 13:58:43 waiting on my new 14" ultrabook that is in the mail :) 13:59:22 I was picking up a spare, on sale, to replace a powerbook and backup the thinky. And, yeah.. 12" fits a lap perfect, and I might suffer a 14 - but 17 is too long and bendy 14:00:21 hmmm...at $200 you either go chrome or netbook probably 14:00:35 i am running on an acer aspire one right now haha 14:00:43 hooked up to a monitor and keyboard 14:02:21 well, I want to get a usb+antenna wifi adapter, too. I need to try to use a cantenna anyway, So a cheapie is fine. I'd even go with a cheap tablet that can dock to a keyboard. 14:03:54 if i can't linux it...then i am not interested haha 14:04:14 I have a 17" MBP and well it's bulky and heavy but it replaces a desktop for me 14:05:00 anannie: apple makes a nice product...but it is expensive...and I don't want OSX 14:05:22 I've had desktops and pass. I've had lappies for a decade now, and 17" is too big. I need to see about tablets and keyboard-docks that transform them to lappies.. 14:06:02 I'm not an Apple acolyte, but I did a cost v.s. benefit analysis and I really feel that my boss (he gave me this laptop) was right on the money when he bought this. It's a really solid, stable laptop 14:06:06 I am waiting for this in the mail: http://store.vizio.com/ct14a0.html#support 14:06:14 I'm going to wipe windows off entirely 14:07:14 I've not tried a macbook. I had a powerbook G4 and, hardware-wise it IS overpriced. otoh, osX was close enough to bsd to make me comfortable - screaming only at the idiot hidden files and ".app" stuff. 14:08:23 Ide rather have a linux distro with a package manager and support for things i expect 14:08:59 anannie: what is your job? 14:09:01 well, on the powerbook I used Fink and such. That helped 14:09:07 protist: I do R&D analysis. 14:09:09 what is Fink? 14:09:22 anannie: what is R&D?....research and design? 14:09:25 anannie: what type? 14:09:34 it was (is?) a repo port to osX from the linux/debian mainlines 14:09:37 protist: all types of research and development 14:09:54 anannie: sounds like you might be interested in learning J or R 14:10:00 anannie: (programming languages) 14:10:15 PoppaVic: interesting 14:10:21 PoppaVic: still sounds like a hassel 14:10:42 protist: it beat fighting every tarball, although I was and am used to tarballs. 14:11:24 I've heard about J and R and yes I'll learn them, but only later after I go through this process. 14:12:05 anannie: gotcha :) 14:13:22 protist: I'm trying to learn the basics first before getting into the high level stuff. 14:13:58 what are "basics"? 14:14:23 anannie: you might should check out SICP (structure and interpretation of computer programs) 14:14:36 anannie: I am reading it currently...and the lectures are online 14:15:12 Hrm. I'd forgotten about that. I'll check it out after I finish this Ruby book and I implement this game of life construct that I'm doing 14:15:53 I440r: looks like I roll tomorrow before noon. And, naturally the place I wanted to check won't man the office until wednesday 14:16:12 ugh 14:16:20 how long a drive is that 14:16:40 yeah.. I didn't mind the message on the phone, but it didn't bother to record a query - just hang up. 14:17:32 well, Phoenix is only about 7 hours away - 400+ miles. I plan to make it a 2 day trip, so if I arrive I can back in and hookup w/o being tired, stupid and wobbly-legged. 14:18:23 anannie, can i haz a jobz where you work! lol boss GAVE you the laptop? 14:18:48 I440r: Well he's a good friend... :) 14:18:53 many employers do 14:19:03 I440r: that wasn't quite proper LOLCODE ....didn't compile 14:19:39 can i haz cheezeburger? 14:19:56 i don't actually have the compiler handy haha 14:28:03 protist: btw, feel free to roll thru: https://sites.google.com/site/itsnotsmoking/tanks 14:28:24 bah.. stupid paste.. 'tanks; is a tab 14:28:50 PoppaVic: i already use a dual-coil 2 ohm tank 14:29:17 protist: noted. Just meant the base site. I've not screwed with dual coil yet. 14:29:43 did you make the site? 14:29:59 shhh.. If I admitted to that, the earth might shatter 14:30:24 hahaha 14:30:37 PoppaVic: i use this with a dual-coil 2ohm tank: http://www.madvapes.com/5-volt-white-box-mod-with-black-horn-switch.html 14:31:20 you never smoked before using an ecig...interesting 14:31:41 I used to smoke cigars and pipes a lot...and then I started dipping for 2-3 years 14:31:57 I've built their mosfet box - ordered a few as spares; I ordered their vv board and built my own VV box; I'm using an OKR-T/6 mod right now 14:32:01 (some people actually don't know what dipping tobacco is...and they don't have it here in New Zealand) 14:32:22 better read again. I started smoking a pipe in 1978. 14:32:31 --- quit: tgunr_ (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 14:32:36 PoppaVic: that soundss complicated...how many volts? (min and max, because vv) 14:32:36 cigs when kitchens got too crazy and the service. 14:32:48 I think the max is 6+ 14:33:15 PoppaVic: damn skimming...i saw this sentence and misinterpretted: "I have no experience with either the pipe-like & cigar-like devices." 14:33:31 before I was banned from ecig's forums, I grabbed a pile of schematics 14:33:42 hahaha 14:33:49 why the hell would they ban you? 14:34:15 don't EVER deal with their ops in pm's - to disagree is to be "harrasing our ops" 14:34:25 lol 14:34:34 gay 14:34:51 i got banned from #python for an hour or two for saying the word "gay" 14:35:03 since then i have only lurked in there once or twice 14:35:10 --- join: tgunr (~davec@cust-66-249-166-13.static.o1.com) joined #forth 14:35:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +v tgunr 14:35:46 I foolishly applied to join the echange/fleamarket/whatever, and commented the requirement of paypal seemed overkill - but I did it; that triggered the irritated pms from an op. 14:35:48 so from taht we can deduce the guys in #py are ghey 14:36:22 I440r: yes...they even have a rule about not saying lol or asking projecteuler questions 14:36:35 some of my best friends were gay; best club night was gay-night; and queers STILL blow up like squealing hamsters throwing tantrums. 14:36:35 i registered sublime text 2, probably the greatest source code editor ever created... the only way to pay for it is via paypal and i REFUSE to have anything to do with paypal ever again 14:36:44 so i had my father buy my licence for me lol 14:37:01 PoppaVic: what do you mean by "blow up"? 14:37:50 im a christain, i dont just READ my bible i STUDY it. tho im no expert 14:38:02 i hold biblical views on homosexuality 14:38:08 PoppaVic: i have had gay friends...but gay people who act flagrant or can't shutup about it can GTF away from me 14:38:21 protist: the buddies I had were decent.. hardworking, reliable.. They'd trot along working well and suddenly they'd blow the hell up and go apeshit-nuts over something I never even saw as worth a fart.. They usually would calm down a bit or a week later, but WOW.. what a show. 14:39:10 protist: I liked them and trusted them, but the emotional thermonukes were almost laughable. 14:39:24 PoppaVic: i've seen that before 14:39:55 PoppaVic: but really i've only had one or two gay friends...one of whom was bi, and the other I knew through my gf at the time 14:40:09 I440r: Dude, I can get along with most folks. Religionists can keep it in the closet and I'm fine. Missionaries and nanny-staters of any stripe make me look for bogs. 14:40:31 PoppaVic: but there are plenty of gay people who do nothing but try to act gay and talk about being gay....and I have no use for those people, they piss me the fuck off 14:41:16 protist: hey, I'm easy - most folks piss me off and they are ALL edible. I just try to start everyone at zero and let them pick their place on the numberline.. 14:41:42 PoppaVic: edible? 14:42:03 PoppaVic: if a gay person speaks with an affected "gay voice"...then I am done with the conversation before it begins 14:42:14 I much prefer cats, can suffer dogs, and some children. yes, edible: all humans are just meat-on-the-hoof and I am a firm believer in Soylent Green. 14:42:34 PoppaVic: wth is Soylent Green? 14:42:43 protist: yer talking about actors/poseurs? I'd expect others to whoop his ass 14:43:24 PoppaVic: even if there are genuininely gay...the "gay voice" is always a show 14:43:30 PoppaVic: and i hate it 14:43:41 protist: humans are edible. And they are mostly water. Meanwhile, you might want to find wand watch a classic Movie (or the book "make Room! Make Room") with Charleton Heston called "Soylent Green"/ 14:43:45 PoppaVic: and the gay clothing and purses 14:44:20 protist: sounds like a personal thing. I usually just drop them on the numberline and move along, when they annoy me. 14:45:37 a gay person acting like that and wanting to be my friend is like a girl not shaving her pits and wanting to date me...it's over before they try 14:46:31 I440r: One of my fond memories: had the manager lock me and my gay buddy (a waiter) in for the night with a 30pack of beer, and 2 floor sanders and 10 gallons of finish.. By 0800 we were not even halfway thru the 30, had been sanding for over 8 hours, and were laughing ourselfs to death with stupid jokes. 14:46:33 oh well...I'm ranting 14:46:54 protist: I just call those "twits" or "nitwits" and move along. 14:47:18 PoppaVic: are you british? 14:47:22 In general, I can like people but I loathe People. 14:47:27 gods no. 14:47:44 you used the word twits 14:47:57 kind of uncommon for an American 14:48:07 so I assume British of some variety 14:48:09 I'm from Michigan.. Father was macedonian, mother was german.. 14:48:21 protist: oh, sorry - I can read ;-) 14:48:21 assumed* 14:48:40 :) 14:49:14 mind you, brits have no Humor I can find; I can identify aussie and canuck humor easier, and accents just sound "brit" to me (not clearly brit, uk, aussie, etc). 14:49:31 I'm American...my ancestors were in Irish debtors' prison there 14:49:39 there being Georgia 14:49:43 protist: I'm just one whacky ol' michigander. 14:50:11 I moved to New Zealand recently...everyone here sounds dumb lol 14:50:35 the irish are interesting.. amusing.. I would like to see ireland myself someday, like Australia and Z-land - but I doubt it will happen. 14:50:37 lol 14:50:46 watch out for those mauri 14:51:00 dwane johnson is mauri :0 14:51:06 da rock 14:51:12 I440r: mauri people seem to get massive for no reason lol 14:51:24 oh, is he? cool. "black" covers a lot of room. 14:51:33 its all that breeding specifically for war 14:51:41 kill all the SMALL babies! 14:51:52 selective breeding, of course 14:52:07 he has some native tattoos 14:52:14 --- join: Nisstyre-laptop (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 14:52:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre-laptop 14:52:18 it's when folks get overly "civilized" that it starts to fall apart. 14:52:29 people here think they know what black people are like because they have mauris....lol they have no clue 14:53:11 protist: well, there was once a movement to ship "blacks back to africa" - africa didn't want them back anymore than they wanted themn the first time. 14:53:23 PoppaVic: hahaha 14:53:42 PoppaVic: well their own people sold them in many instances 14:54:04 it's interesting how conveniently it's forgotten that many slaves werre sold by their own families or opposition/tribes. 14:54:11 indeed 14:54:39 you'll even find the old testament documenting it ;-) 14:54:56 hehe 14:55:43 people here are racist against asians, they feel like they are being invaded...and conveniently forget they let them move here 14:56:08 Mind you, I'm sorta' pale.. Meanwjhile, while I learned to like a few black, I listened to Dad and avoid Greeks ;-) 14:56:10 being racist against asians doesn't make much sense anyways 14:56:23 PoppaVic: Greeks? 14:57:22 He never elaborated except to say never to trust them. Iknow his father did book-keeping for Greeks. I know my aunt insists we are Greek, not macedonian. I don't care to be further involved. 14:57:44 lol 14:57:59 I don't know enough greeks to say anything on that 14:58:30 All that matters to me is the german/macedonian connection, only a few generations in the US - and there were damned good reasons for people to leavethe "Old Country". 14:58:45 I'm looking forward to university here in february...I've gotta date a Korean girl before I die 14:58:50 or 7 14:59:11 protist: well, I met a few greek restaurant owners. I watched them with family at work, and got really, really wary of their offers of work - from watching and remembering dad. 14:59:35 ah 15:00:08 I had a THai girlfriend. I missed my chance. I prefer asian gals, just generally speaking. 15:00:12 you live in Michigan?...did you watch Gran Torino? 15:00:40 I watched it; born and raised in MI; I'm in Bakersfield, CA heading back to phoenix tomorrow. 15:00:40 that movie mokes more sense if you have lived in Wisconsin or near there 15:01:37 it makes more sense if you ever suffered urban and suburban spaces; and I've driven thru detroit a few times.. I'd never stop in detroit w/o a firearm handy, given a choice. 15:02:44 Mind you, last I heard, detroit is petitioning for funds and is again bankrupt, and it's still mostly black. 15:02:55 i wont go thru detroid OR thru chicago 15:02:56 ever 15:03:26 PoppaVic: well i meant especially because Hmong people have been brought into Wisconsin in hoards 15:03:51 I440r: if you are mechanically ok, then the freeways are fine. I've been dragged down streets.. Buddy wanted to find his dad on a binge, shoved a chopped dbl 12 in my hands - and I was STILL freaking.. 15:04:00 i like this channel....Forthers tend to be more conservative it seems 15:04:19 I'm like this in any channel - it usually gets me banned. 15:04:24 hahaha 15:04:28 how old are yahl? 15:04:36 I ain't Politically Correct in the least. 15:04:37 i figure maybe yahl are older or something 15:04:46 being as Forth was big in the 80s 15:04:49 Me? umm.. call it 53, tomorrow. 15:05:05 ah :) 15:05:06 when i started this channel i enacted ONE LAW. no anal retentive bullshit about what people can and can not talk about 15:05:18 I find it ewasier to age myself with the years - the math is easier ;-) 15:05:18 PoppaVic: I'll be 21 the 7th 15:05:28 im not quite wrinkly :))) 15:06:10 I440r: #forth and I had a few issues while quartus was popular. And, you KNOW I have isues in ##C ;-) 15:06:30 well it was my mistake making him a channel mod :/ 15:06:31 protist: I was 21 once - you get over it. 15:07:03 I440r: in a 100 years, no one will give a shit - it's fine. 15:07:08 PoppaVic: haha 15:07:14 I still try to steer folks over here. 15:07:16 nobody gives a shit NOW lol 15:07:39 I440r: `yes, and in less than 20 I hope none of it matters to me. It gets old. 15:07:49 maybe anannie was a plant to wake everyone up in here 15:07:59 that was my theory 15:08:07 lol 15:08:21 protist: So far, it seems yer the only one locked in on a nick suggesting female - let alone female ;-) 15:08:34 as far as im concerned they can plant as many like her as they want :) 15:08:54 and don't worry guys I'm going to stick around 15:08:54 i like this channel being somewhat close to being alive 15:08:59 PoppaVic: I am male :)...my name means member of the Kingdom Protista 15:09:02 yay :) 15:09:06 I came back just to peruse, found I440r alive and remember segher - all else is a plus ;-) 15:09:06 PoppaVic: sorry if that disappoints 15:09:41 i think we all knew you were a guy pro 15:09:44 protist: dude, don't sweat it - I am just Poppa.. When I am tired, I /ignore or leave. 15:09:48 or a VERY butch girl :)) 15:10:08 we need to send anannie to a few other channels ....maybe #concatenative and a few others 15:10:25 erm naw i like her right here :P 15:10:27 I440r: hahaha 15:10:29 dont overload the poor girl! 15:10:42 she can handle it 15:10:44 she has spunk 15:10:47 wait till she learns forth then send her over to factory and the like 15:10:48 :P 15:10:48 You know what's the funny thing? 15:10:57 In real life most geeks shut up when I'm around 15:11:03 if she's a she, and active, she'll bear - or shhe will moveon. 15:11:18 anannie, most geeks dont know what to DO when theres wimmin around! 15:11:27 amg shhh its a gurl... eep! 15:11:34 hahaha 15:11:54 Yeah, and that makes it oh so hard to socialise properly... Let's just say I don't get along with the non geek crowd 15:11:55 or they write HTML and think they are geeks 15:12:04 I dunno many folks that bite heads off live chickens, but I have met a lot of useles people in meatspace and online. 15:12:21 or worse. javascript and think they are coders 15:12:22 PoppaVic: I am lost. 15:12:44 Mind you, I used to try to care when a gal was present - I've years on a local bbs/party/hahhpyhour get togethers. 15:12:58 protist: a Geek bites chicken heads off. 15:13:12 PoppaVic: is that a term? 15:13:16 PoppaVic: odd 15:13:24 my freeking #! shit isnt working. i can see the right stuff being stuffed into tib and interpret is being run 15:13:25 yes. old term. "Geeking" 15:13:35 so "fload ./myscript" is being interpreted 15:13:52 I440r: command shell? linux-is-my-bios? ;-) 15:14:08 but only the FIRST line of being executed and thats the #! comment line 15:14:21 heh 15:14:42 tib size is being truncated to the size of the first line of the script and i cant see why 15:16:49 lemme look up some files 15:19:51 I440r: cant you just make a word called #! that is the same as \ ? 15:20:07 i did sort of 15:20:12 and by that i mean a comment terminated by \n 15:20:22 #! is a word that set some stuff up and then just executes \ 15:20:28 so parses to the end of the #! 15:20:37 but.... my fload memory maps the entire file 15:20:42 I440r: got a site you like for pastes? I got two files.. 15:20:44 dont set anything up, let unix handle #! 15:20:50 i set 'tib = the address of the file and #tib = the file size 15:21:07 except by the time were interpreting the #! line of the memory mapped file #tib is the lenght of that line only 15:21:16 any pasty site 15:21:26 ok, just a sec 15:21:32 PoppaVic: please use sprunge 15:21:33 kumul, its not that easy, 15:21:34 or dpaste 15:22:16 i guess not :( 15:23:12 i usually just wgetpaste files 15:23:48 meh, anything that isnt sprunge is too difficult/bloated 15:27:03 I440r: several files: debang.c := http://codepad.org/ZYLOXWML -- and "shebang" := http://codepad.org/Co6X1BMi 15:29:07 hey poppavic when i am developing C apps and have lots of #ifdef debug or the like i never interleave the debug code inside functions. i have two versions of the function where one has the debug ode inside it and the other doesnt and i conditionally compile one or the other 15:29:23 it really REALLY does make the code more readable.. tho im not having difficulty here :) 15:29:36 ok.. And? Oh. Well, whatever works 15:30:19 immagine having an english sentence like this one with french words interleaved in the middle of it... 15:30:30 And... I code C 15:30:31 isforth doesnt support conditional compilation at all 15:30:56 the shebang is working 15:31:04 note that most decent forths have vastly more "power" than the cpp 15:31:39 when you have #! /bin/bash in a file called foobar.sh what that causes is a "/bin/bash foobar.sh" tobe executed 15:31:47 it IS being executed. the shebang is working 15:32:01 although the mixed namespaces and the duration of namespace in this case is likely irritating. 15:32:03 whats happening is my shebanged file is being truncated to contain ONLY the shebang line 15:32:40 By default, only the shebang line is seen 15:33:42 ok i do ./foobar.f the #! in there is #! isforth -sfload 15:33:57 so what gets launched is "isforth -sfload foobar.f" 15:34:10 this is working. isforth is launched by the shebang 15:34:37 but what i do is i construct a terminal input containing the forth comands "fload foobar.f" 15:34:46 foobar.f IS being floaded - i.e. interpret from a file 15:35:03 but.... the file size of the file being floaded is being truncated to only the first line 15:35:28 so i interpret the #! which i have aliased as \ basically 15:35:36 so... that entire shebang line is a comment which does nothing 15:35:41 and... thats all she wrote 15:35:46 $ ./shebang 15:35:48 shebang:0:'./debang' 15:35:49 shebang:1:'args of shebang-line --' 15:35:51 shebang:2:'./shebang' 15:36:30 the program you are banging needs to manually load the sourcefile of argv[2] 15:38:04 ooooh crap 15:38:09 imight know what the problem is 15:38:30 erm no... double crap thats not it 15:49:33 she moves, she moves 15:50:26 blargh thats hours away :P 16:05:25 i4: debang.c: 59 if( !strcmp(argv[i]+ strlen(argv[i])-2, "--") ) 16:05:26 16:05:27 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 16:08:56 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@240.sub-70-194-73.myvzw.com) joined #forth 16:08:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 16:15:45 i4: debang.c: 59 if( !strcmp(argv[i]+ strlen(argv[i])-2, "--") ) 16:21:25 PoppaVic, no my bug is in fload 16:21:30 im pretty certain of that 16:26:34 --- quit: Nisstyre-laptop (Quit: Leaving) 16:35:10 well, I saved it (again) with that mod - which I must had demodded years back. Damnfoolsilliness 16:47:08 remember: isforth uses linu as a bios - linu respects that # in sources - and line1 shebang for sure ;-) 16:47:24 xxxxxxxxxxxx goddamnit 16:57:43 --- quit: tgunr (Quit: I'm outta here) 17:00:45 lol x not cooperating? 17:01:24 yeah 17:51:03 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 18:22:28 OK, I hate the use of '[' and ']' - the traditional logic gets sooo skewed.. 18:27:16 http://www.putlocker.com/file/02827B148F84BC7F# 18:47:00 whats the point of constants? 18:47:15 isnt it just a [value] ? 18:47:30 actually a value is a constant 18:47:41 people were using constants as variables 18:47:46 becuase they dont take a fetch 18:47:49 whaa? 18:47:50 so are more efficient 18:48:07 but the purists said its BAD to change a constant 18:48:18 so a new word was invented that was idential to a constant 18:48:32 but because it was not named "constant" it was ok to modify it 18:49:20 good to know 18:51:19 it's a weird cult-thing 18:51:25 .. like "computer science" 18:52:22 actually, In The Olde Days... they'd tick and poke to change a const - pissed off the "professionals" 18:57:09 so language wise bad, but machine wise good 18:58:26 I think the Value thingie is prolly more useful than Constant, but I also use #defines a lot. 18:59:37 I really hate having constants littering dataspace when I can just use a literal. 19:00:14 i thought constants were literal 19:00:36 nope. they end up fetching and pushing 19:03:53 kumul: in C, #define labels a literal, so instead of sprinkling those magic-numbers around, you can gather them together and change them between compiles. - anywhere you use one it's a text-perfect copy. I can recall something similar proposed in Forth Dimensions in the 80's, but it too was said to be Bad. 19:14:03 I forget... Was it colorforth that supposedly compiled the working-image every time it was loaded? 19:29:12 PoppaVic: how can that be bad!? 19:29:21 it sounds incredibly useful 19:30:07 kumul: the argument was made that the source in these "macros" copuld be executed at the wrong time, and thus behaving in unknown ways 19:51:30 lalala im going to die of asfixiation 19:51:40 s/f/ph/ 19:51:42 Happy New Year. 19:51:50 yeah, happy new year :) 19:52:00 s/f/ph/ looks like it should be obscene for some reason. 19:52:02 is it as terrible there as it is here? 19:52:08 Define "terrible"? 19:52:30 ttmrichter: so much smoke you cant see your hand 19:53:03 lots of gunshots 19:53:06 etc etc 19:55:53 Ah. 19:55:59 No, nothing like that here. 19:56:02 Not a lot of gun owners. 19:56:19 The smoke will come in February. 19:57:23 I don't know anyone stupid enough to waste the ammo or shoot it off into the sky. 19:57:37 When Wuhan temporarily turns into downtown Kandahar. 19:57:50 PoppaVic: I've seen lots of yahoos that stupid, sadly. 19:58:55 tt: Oh, I am sure there are plenty around.. I just avoid knowing that sorta' nimrod. 20:00:14 Once you start buying and maintaining yer firearms, and then invest in the hw and components to reload - your values change.. I suspect the nephew might be learning that, (if he has not already). 20:10:38 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-242.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 20:10:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 20:12:45 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Client Quit) 20:12:51 PoppaVic: neither do i, but i do know drunk people 20:12:53 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-242.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 20:12:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 20:13:25 heya RodgerTheGreat hny :) 20:13:33 what's up, kumul? 20:13:56 lots of smog 20:14:00 :P 20:32:30 --- join: Bahman_ (~Bahman@static.88-198-159-196.clients.your-server.de) joined #forth 20:32:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman_ 20:32:52 --- quit: Bahman (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 20:35:58 --- quit: Bahman_ (Remote host closed the connection) 20:36:18 --- join: Bahman (~Bahman@static.88-198-159-196.clients.your-server.de) joined #forth 20:36:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Bahman 20:43:45 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:10:22 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@230.sub-70-194-73.myvzw.com) joined #forth 21:10:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 21:18:45 --- quit: I440r (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:31:25 --- join: I440r (~zhiming@230.sub-70-194-73.myvzw.com) joined #forth 21:31:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 21:35:13 oopts stupid android tether 21:35:32 heh 21:40:59 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 23:03:38 --- quit: I440r (Remote host closed the connection) 23:07:12 --- quit: kumul (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2) 23:11:03 --- join: proteus_guy (~proteusgu@ppp-58-8-92-100.revip2.asianet.co.th) joined #forth 23:11:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v proteus_guy 23:11:07 --- quit: proteus_guy (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 23:57:16 --- quit: anannie (Remote host closed the connection) 23:59:22 --- nick: ttmrichter -> TheOther 23:59:33 --- nick: TheOther -> ttmrichter 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/12.12.31