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09:30:13 <JasonDamisch> LIVE VIDEO FEED
09:30:14 <JasonDamisch> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9zRr9N1fo
09:34:57 <pablohreda> hi all
09:36:29 <JasonDamisch> HI
09:37:26 <pablohreda> no Hangout? only live feed?
09:46:09 <JasonDamisch> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9zRr9N1fo
09:47:13 <JasonDamisch> I don't know, I've never used Hangout before
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09:59:19 <kc5tja> I understand folks were wondering where to view the Forth Day video stream?
09:59:31 <JasonDamisch> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9zRr9N1fo
10:00:23 <JasonDamisch> I don't know how to temporarily chance the topic, or if it is even acceptable to do so
10:00:54 <kc5tja> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9zRr9N1fo  is correct.
10:01:06 <JasonDamisch> pablohreda asked...   no Hangout? only live feed?
10:01:10 <kc5tja> We're changing speakers now.
10:01:19 <pablohreda> no sound now
10:01:25 <kc5tja> You need to be invited to a hangout in order to view it.
10:01:26 <JasonDamisch> because no speaker
10:01:42 <pablohreda> ok no problem
10:01:52 <kc5tja> You can't have a public hangout and stream to Youtube at the same time.  Or, at least, you couldn't when we first started this.
10:01:56 <JasonDamisch> heh?  I am viewing via YouTube
10:01:58 <kc5tja> back in August.
10:02:08 <JasonDamisch> ok
10:02:13 <JasonDamisch> I never use Hangout
10:02:26 <JasonDamisch> sooo many thingamajigs to try and use.  I get overwhelmed
10:02:31 <kc5tja> Hangouts are nice, actually.  But, you're limited to 10 participants.
10:02:41 <kc5tja> That's why we prefer the Youtube approach.
10:05:08 <JasonDamisch> Forth 2012 some interest to me
10:05:20 <JasonDamisch> But why is it better than 1983 or ANS?
10:05:26 <JasonDamisch> thats the question
10:07:40 <JasonDamisch> this is actually importiant
10:08:09 <pablohreda> gavino not talk ? ;)
10:10:24 <JasonDamisch> probably not
10:11:25 <JasonDamisch> I don't think that gavino is an intentional Troll, but has a unique way of rubbing some of us the wrong way.  Sure, I'd like to have a pure Forth desktop computer, with apps written in Forth.  But we don't have enough time, energy, money, people, coordination, etc.
10:13:21 <kc5tja> I'm pretty convinced Gavino is actually a troll.  Either that, or a person with severel learning disability, because you can answer his question several times, and he'll continue to dig and dig and dig with the same questions over and over and over again.
10:13:30 <pablohreda> I offer to teach forth to gavino
10:14:18 <JasonDamisch> Sam, I think that it's neat that both FRAM and PCRAM are not available,  PCRAM from Micron
10:14:42 <kc5tja> s/not/now/?
10:15:19 <kc5tja> FRAM uses magnetic particles for its memory cells, right?  I don't remember clearly.
10:15:27 <JasonDamisch> I think so
10:15:42 <JasonDamisch> now available,  now I meant to say
10:33:08 <JasonDamisch> voucher code  FORTHDAY2012
10:37:40 <kc5tja> Epiphany for me -- I now understand why they bundle at 32 byte boundaries.
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10:42:06 <JasonDamisch> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9zRr9N1fo
10:49:26 <JasonDamisch> wait a minute.  There is NO option whatsoever to running Linux for ANYTHING.  For an embedded system which would normally take 64 bytes of code, I need 24K of Linux and linker code.  And, when I get in I need to ask permission to actually touch the hardware.  Like I'm DemiGorgon teleporting in from hell or something?
10:49:59 <kc5tja> I don't understand your question.
10:50:23 <JasonDamisch> What Leon said...
10:50:44 <JasonDamisch> never mind, it was nothing
10:51:06 <kc5tja> 12K was what Leon indicated, but yeah.  You're basically bridging how Forth handles subroutine calls to how C handles them.
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11:34:29 <JasonDamisch> hi
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11:35:28 <kc5tja>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9zRr9N1fo (if interested in Forth Day talks)
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12:01:59 <JasonDamisch> It occurs to me that this Forth code synthesizer for GA144 would be of use to people writing code for that system, but who are relativley in experienced programming for that.  So, they can compare the code they wrote to the code that the sythasizer creates to get ideas no how to write better code, possibily.
12:02:43 <kc5tja> Yep.
12:02:52 <kc5tja> It can perhaps be extended to also handle floorplanning too.
12:03:08 <kc5tja> And, it could be cross-language, too, where your "spec" is in C, but the output is in GA assembly.
12:03:18 <kc5tja> This is really fascinating!
12:09:02 <JasonDamisch> Its interesting that somebody at any university is actually interested in GA or Forth, even Berkley
12:09:47 <JasonDamisch> assuming that if there is any Forth activity at any school, the school will either be very liberal or very conservative??
12:16:27 <kc5tja> away at lunch
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12:35:28 <JasonDamisch> hi
12:47:32 <Steve__> hi
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12:48:53 <JasonDamisch> are you watching the Forth Day video stream?
12:48:54 <Steve__> anybody around here?
12:49:05 <JasonDamisch> a few of us I think
12:49:45 <Steve__> are you at the Forth day in Stanford?
12:50:17 <JasonDamisch> no, I am sitting at home watching it via YouTube
12:50:31 <Steve__> do you have the link for the stream?
12:50:48 <JasonDamisch> The stream is not going right now because everybody is at lunch, but here
12:50:58 <JasonDamisch> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL9zRr9N1fo
12:51:21 <JasonDamisch> another link may be posted for the 2nd half of the day
12:51:25 <JasonDamisch> as it often is
12:51:38 <JasonDamisch> The 2nd half of the day will be just Green Arrays related
12:51:46 <Steve__> is it live or recorded?
12:51:49 <JasonDamisch> live
12:52:10 <JasonDamisch> you could ask questions to kc5tja who is at the meeting site
12:53:00 <JasonDamisch> I'm interested in what Greg and Chuck have to say today
12:53:11 <Steve__> ok i'm in
12:53:46 <Steve__> Yes, I like them too
12:54:58 <Steve__> I'm from Switzerland and it is 10 pm here
12:55:46 <JasonDamisch> it is almost 1 pm here on the west coast of the United States
12:56:18 <Steve__> Yes, 9 hours difference.
12:56:28 <JasonDamisch> they will be back in about 30 minutes
12:57:00 <Steve__> nice, I'll be waiting
12:57:14 <JasonDamisch> There is a draft of the 2012 standard available now
12:57:27 <JasonDamisch> it was mentioned by Leon Wagner this morning
12:58:30 <JasonDamisch> Eventually there ought to be a link posted to the recorded stream someplace for those who miss it today.
12:58:39 <JasonDamisch> There has been the past several years
12:59:33 <Steve__> Can you give me the link for the PM session when it is starting?
12:59:39 <JasonDamisch> ok
13:10:34 <JasonDamisch> http://www.forth200x.org/documents/forth-rc1.pdf
13:14:46 <impomatic> Has anyone got (or read) any of these books? Solosky "FORTH: Elements of Programming Style", Wesseling "Forth: Implementation and Application", Ting "Inside F83", Koopman "Forth Floating Point", Pelc "Book of FORTH assemblers"
13:15:58 <impomatic> I'd be interested to hear your opinion or buy your copy! :-)
13:19:37 <JasonDamisch> I have Ting "Inside F83" only
13:20:11 <JasonDamisch> It is documentation of a clean implimentation of Forth 83
13:20:21 <JasonDamisch> For an older PC
13:20:46 <JasonDamisch> It's worth reading if you are interested in Forth I think.
13:23:11 <JasonDamisch> F83 is complete insomuch as it has a round robin multitasker, a metacompiler, and a machine code assembler.  There is also a simple editor
13:23:41 <JasonDamisch> The assembly language definitions are short, and the Forth definitions of the system are also short, making it relatively easy to read.
13:24:24 <JasonDamisch> In addition, being written for 8080 and not later processors means the machine definitions are easier to read as the addressing modes involved are simpler than those for a later machine, IMO.
13:24:47 <JasonDamisch> If you want to understand how a Forth works under the hood so to speak, this is probably the least painful way I can think of.
13:25:52 <JasonDamisch> I want to keep my copy.
13:32:31 <JasonDamisch> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg5zyrHe0Fc
13:32:38 <JasonDamisch> 2nd half of day video feed!
13:32:47 <JasonDamisch> Greg Speaking
13:33:11 <kc5tja> SVFIG Forth Day Streaming Video Link, Part 2!
13:33:20 <kc5tja> SVFIG Forth Day Streaming Video Link, Part 2!
13:33:23 <kc5tja> http://www.youtube.com/user/SVForth?v=yg5zyrHe0Fc
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13:34:13 <Steve__> watching
13:36:40 <crc>  watching over a mobile connection isn't working well :(
13:36:58 <kc5tja> Youtube will keep the video around for later viewing.
13:37:14 <kc5tja> We have SVFIG meetings going back to August 2012 on-line.
13:37:22 <kc5tja> (They're not all as interesting as this though.)
13:38:12 <crc> I'll probably have to watch next week, when I have access to a better connection
13:52:43 <impomatic> JasonDamisch: I've been looking for "Inside F83" for a while.  There's a seller on Amazon with a copy, but they didn't respond to my enquiry.
13:53:29 <JasonDamisch> :(
13:54:22 <JasonDamisch> I wonder if Ting has an old floppy of the text he would be willing to give/sell people.  Like masybe take $5 through paypal for a d/l
13:57:33 <impomatic> It's available online, but no-one seems to know what format the files are it. There's some plain text visible. I suspect it's the format from an obsolete Mac word processor.
13:59:23 <JasonDamisch> where?
13:59:30 <crc> impomatic: that would be correct, it's an old version of Word for Max OS IIRC
13:59:33 <crc> http://www.forth.org/library/eforth_SOC/eforth_SOC_source/f83/insidf83.ZIP
14:04:40 <JasonDamisch> so somebody should tear this doc apart and convert to simple html?
14:04:44 <impomatic> Thanks crc. I'll try importing to OpenOffice again...
14:05:47 <crc> impomatic: I didn't have much luck  when I last tried, but a lot of the text appears to be there
14:06:03 <crc> getting the illustrations into a usable format may be more problematic 
14:12:15 <impomatic> I have a Mac Powerbook 230 somewhere (early 90's).  I wonder if I can access the files on it.
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14:15:37 <JasonDamisch> hi
14:16:39 <kc5tja> SVFIG Forth Day Streaming Video Link, Part 2:  http://www.youtube.com/user/SVForth?v=yg5zyrHe0Fc
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14:28:33 <impomatic> The illustrations are MacDraw.  I'll just looking for something to convert them.
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14:39:46 <JasonDamisch> Snorkles and Ganglia, sounds squishy :^)
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14:51:28 <JasonDamisch> hi
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15:24:55 <JasonDamisch> video went bye bye
15:25:10 <JasonDamisch> it came back
15:25:33 <kc5tja> I just checked; it didn't even hiccup on our side.
15:25:40 <kc5tja> Hopefully Youtube got the content.
15:26:24 <kc5tja> Thanks for the feedback though.  I'm trying to keep an eye here for real-time updates.
15:26:37 <JasonDamisch> ok
15:27:16 <Steve__> i noticed too
15:28:43 <kc5tja> I apologize for any lost feed.  We're streaming over wifi, which is hardly the most reliable thing ever.  We're also time-limited to four hours at a time before having to re-log-in to the wifi network.
15:28:47 <kc5tja> Really annoying.
15:29:43 <JasonDamisch> I appreciate the effort Sam
15:30:29 <Steve__> I'm enjoying it anyway. Much much better than to have nothing.
15:31:27 <kc5tja> Thanks!  It's fun to contribute the video service.
15:32:15 <Steve__> Thanks for the effort
15:36:23 <JasonDamisch> The 10 Mbit Full Duplex Ethernet NIC seems like a large floorplan to me, but then again, this stuff is still new, mabye we will find out that a large floorplan is really across hundreds or thousands of nodes?
15:37:49 <kc5tja> he's also doing a lot of stuff that most NICs do in parallel in a pipeline.  Framing, CRC, synchronization between TX and RX, link negotiation, and DMA.
15:38:04 <kc5tja> If you don't care about CRC, then you should be able to save a few nodes.
15:38:36 <kc5tja> If you don't care about DMA, that looks like it saves 4 or 5 nodes.
15:39:00 <kc5tja> There's room for optimization, to be sure.  You'll end up with a super-specialized NIC though.
15:39:14 <Steve__> I saw it working at Incline. Very nice
15:42:25 <Steve__> I like the node layout: compact & effective
15:42:51 <kc5tja> Yep.  Mostly linear except for the edge nodes.
15:45:12 <Steve__> And a good example of how to make 26 nodes work together
15:50:28 <JasonDamisch> It sure doesn't fill the whole die, so there are many cores left over to do something else too
15:51:21 <kc5tja> Yep.  The entire upper half of the chip can be used for audio or video.  This one chip can do what iTV wanted to do in many different chips on a single die.  It's really fascinating.
15:51:55 <Steve__> agreed
15:52:15 <JasonDamisch> question, Sam, why don't you just use this for the Kestrel?
15:52:27 <kc5tja> It wasn't generally available when I started.
15:52:33 <JasonDamisch> oh
15:52:42 <kc5tja> A future Kestrel design will be using these chips, for sure.
15:52:47 <JasonDamisch> :)
15:53:04 <kc5tja> I'll still have the FPGA, but FPGA + GA144 = lustful reconfigurable computing awesomeness of DOOOOOM.
15:56:42 <JasonDamisch> What about using the Gameduino as the graphics and sound system?
15:56:50 <JasonDamisch> with a GA144 as the main CPU?
15:57:08 <kc5tja> That's a possibility.  Resolution isn't as high as I'd like though.
15:57:48 <JasonDamisch> I would not mind that resolution, can't have everything.
15:57:56 <JasonDamisch> Or, maybe an extended version of that?
15:58:45 <Steve__> Sam, please tell Greg and all the others GA-guys greetings from Stefan in Switzerland and that I'm watching them live.
15:59:00 <JasonDamisch> :)
16:01:26 <JasonDamisch> CHUCK THE MAN!
16:03:17 <kc5tja> We're going to stop the video stream now, and start a 3rd part.  Link to follow shortly.
16:03:23 <JasonDamisch> ok
16:03:27 <JasonDamisch> quickly then
16:03:49 <Steve__> link please when available again
16:05:21 <pablohreda> very nice presentation of greenarray..thanks!
16:05:36 <JasonDamisch> yeah
16:06:07 <Steve__> yup
16:06:17 <JasonDamisch> http://excamera.com/sphinx/gameduino/
16:08:42 <JasonDamisch> Saaaam?
16:09:42 <kc5tja> http://www.youtube.com/user/SVForth?v=bB4pbjgvZoo
16:09:50 <kc5tja> These things take time.
16:10:08 <Steve__> thanks
16:11:16 <kc5tja> JasonDamisch: Yeah, the gameduino has a 400x300 resolution.  I'm looking for 800x600.
16:11:22 <kc5tja> eventually.
16:12:05 <JasonDamisch> can the Gameduino be upgraded to that?
16:12:23 <JasonDamisch> I'd be willing to take the lower resolution?
16:13:06 <kc5tja> Not as-is; it'd require more resources than the FPGA he's using has.
16:14:10 <JasonDamisch> oh
16:28:51 <kc5tja> Throbbing effect is caused by the camera.  :(
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16:53:59 <JasonDamisch> don't spill the coke on the board, lol.
16:55:11 <kc5tja> Video hiccup due to Windows bullshido.
16:55:12 <kc5tja> As usual.
16:55:14 <JasonDamisch> Enjoy Dinner at the Chinese Restaurant
16:55:23 <JasonDamisch> now should be about time to quit
16:55:30 <Steve__> video gone again
16:55:45 <JasonDamisch> I had to restore the video, and now it's playing a recording from the beginning I think
16:55:46 <kc5tja> It'll be back soon
16:55:57 <kc5tja> It should be back now.
16:56:07 <JasonDamisch> is there another person recording video as well?
16:56:08 <Steve__> yep
16:56:25 <Steve__> it is back
16:56:44 <kc5tja> No, the other person is my audio checker.
16:57:00 <JasonDamisch> I hope that you can upload the video uninterupted?
16:57:14 <kc5tja> It's streaming to Youtube, and Youtube is recording it.
16:57:19 <kc5tja> Interruptions and all, regrettably.
16:57:29 <Steve__> it seems that sound and video are not in sync
16:57:54 <kc5tja> That's a Youtube thing, alas.
16:58:06 <JasonDamisch> well the quality will be less than last year, but still thank you very much for the effort.
16:58:14 <Steve__> yes, reloading the page fixes it
16:58:15 <kc5tja> We're not doing any video encoding here, except for what G+ and Youtube do.
16:58:42 <JasonDamisch> hmm
17:00:28 <JasonDamisch> claps
17:01:11 <JasonDamisch> bye
17:01:18 <Steve__> good night
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17:04:17 <kc5tja> Night all!
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17:07:15 <pablohreda> bye
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