00:00:00 --- log: started forth/12.10.14 00:43:41 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.171) joined #forth 00:43:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 00:46:30 --- quit: nighty-_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 00:46:53 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@TOROON12-1279662182.sdsl.bell.ca) joined #forth 00:46:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty- 02:40:32 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 02:40:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 03:11:23 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 03:11:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 03:33:14 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 03:45:07 --- join: _spt_ (~in@host-92-4-98-160.as43234.net) joined #forth 03:45:07 --- quit: _spt_ (Changing host) 03:45:07 --- join: _spt_ (~in@unaffiliated/-spt-/x-5624824) joined #forth 03:45:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +v _spt_ 03:49:02 --- quit: epicmonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 03:51:27 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.171) joined #forth 03:51:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 03:54:50 --- quit: epicmonkey (Remote host closed the connection) 03:55:06 --- join: epicmonkey (~epicmonke@188.134.41.171) joined #forth 03:55:06 --- mode: ChanServ set +v epicmonkey 04:19:28 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 04:19:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 05:32:03 --- quit: ncv (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 06:07:02 I'd deeply appreciate any input on “Thoughts On JVM-based Forth Implementation” http://bahmanm.com/blogs/thoughts-on-jvm-based-forth-implementation 06:11:25 It is very hard to preserve semantics this way. 06:11:40 I don't think it is realistic. 06:12:19 Basically, this way you will implement something with postfix syntax 06:12:28 but it will carry very little resemblance to Forth. 06:15:13 ASau: By resemblance you mean the ability to modify memory? 06:16:21 No. 06:16:34 Would you please elaborate on that then? 06:17:54 There're two problems. 06:18:13 First, Forth has no clear semantics. 06:18:21 Second, Forth is not Turing-complete. 06:18:50 (Java is.) 06:19:20 While Forth has no clear semantics, it still includes equivalence of object and number(s). 06:19:25 Java doesn't have that. 06:21:21 The second problem affects interoperability to some extent. 06:21:50 In particular, I suspect that it does entail that you have to marshall your objects. 06:30:17 --- join: kumul (~kumul@cvx-ppp-66-50-130-239.coqui.net) joined #forth 06:30:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v kumul 06:30:54 ASau: re semantics...did I impose any semantics except the arity part? 06:31:18 ASau: I didn't get the 2nd problem at all :-) 06:46:49 The "cells are objects instead of memory addresses" imposes semantics that is fundamentally different from traditional one. 06:47:37 To me it is obvious that you didn't think it out well enough. 06:47:59 Counter-example is on surface: "chars +". 06:50:25 With cells that are "objects" it isn't clear how you're going to handle that. 06:50:43 Is that a proxy object that references some string? 06:50:54 Is that a number? 06:51:05 Both? 06:55:02 ASau: I see your point. 06:56:05 Thanks for the feedback...I'll work on it. 07:02:48 I meant "5 chars +" above, of course. 07:02:52 But you see the point. 07:05:02 I believe eventually in such a transition Forth will lose some of its Forth'ness. 07:05:35 That's what I'm trying to figure out: is it worth losing it and gain JVM advantages in return? 07:06:37 If you're going to lose it, I suggest that you take a look at automata for implementations of functional programming languages. 07:06:38 Or better to say: will it help at all? Does it make a difference to code in such a variant of Forth compared to coding in pure Java? 07:06:49 Like Krivine machines, ZINC, and so on. 07:08:02 I don't see much use of coding in "postfix Java." 07:09:15 --- join: gnooth (~gnooth@108-249-104-182.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 07:09:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +v gnooth 07:52:18 --- join: ncv (~quassel@92.85.162.200) joined #forth 07:52:18 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 07:52:18 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 07:52:18 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 08:32:12 --- quit: kumul (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9) 08:42:22 --- quit: ncv (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 08:45:16 --- join: ncv (~quassel@92.85.162.200) joined #forth 08:45:16 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 08:45:16 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 08:45:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 08:51:45 --- quit: obobo (Remote host closed the connection) 09:04:03 --- join: obobo (~chatzilla@98.124.11.86) joined #forth 09:04:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v obobo 09:23:25 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 09:24:17 --- quit: ncv (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 09:24:37 --- join: ASau (~user@95-24-181-228.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 09:24:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 09:35:35 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 09:35:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty^ 10:25:09 --- join: black_13 (467c40e5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.124.64.229) joined #forth 10:25:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +v black_13 10:25:12 msg nickserv identify 10:25:54 what is the name of the documene that gives the common word names in forth is it dpans4? 10:34:36 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-128.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 10:34:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 10:36:14 RodgerTheGreat: dude 10:36:20 what is the name of the documene that gives the common word names in forth is it dpans4? 10:37:08 this? http://lars.nocrew.org/dpans/dpans.htm 10:37:29 that is it 10:37:34 its what i am reading 10:37:41 i had found other versions 10:39:30 thanks 10:39:51 no prob 10:39:57 what are you working on? 10:43:51 I have a specialized forth for the TI msp430 processor i am trying to understand what words in this forth works similarly to ANS forth 10:44:03 ah 10:45:14 its sooo small 10:45:36 15 or so pages of code 10:45:55 well, it would have to be to fit on most MPS430 chips 10:46:11 i believe it will 10:46:26 it was designed to but i am still learning forth 10:46:33 right now it runs on a pc 10:53:16 <_spt_> jump ... http://www.redbullstratos.com/live/ 10:55:14 i just wish i could push it to git hub that would be nice 11:01:14 --- quit: Inode (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 11:07:43 --- join: Inode (~inode@time.uk.chromedpork.net) joined #forth 11:07:43 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Inode 11:11:01 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 11:11:54 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 11:11:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 11:14:09 --- join: MayDaniel_ (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 11:14:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel_ 11:14:23 RodgerTheGreat: is there a section of that document that has all the words ... i haven't found it yet 11:15:22 http://lars.nocrew.org/dpans/dpans6.htm#6.1 11:16:13 Taygeta is a bit more reliable source, but whatever. 11:16:23 black_13: you can check 0.11, if you wish. 11:17:08 --- quit: MayDaniel (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:19:07 thats odd i am not finding 0.11 11:20:39 apforth-0.11 11:22:58 oh 11:23:11 i see i see 11:23:32 i was looking at the secitons of the dpans document 11:25:51 i wrote down the url for the document but left it work 11:29:07 ah! this is it! http://lars.nocrew.org/dpans/dpansf.htm 11:41:03 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-173-230.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 11:41:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion 11:53:33 --- part: _spt_ left #forth 12:34:01 --- join: aguai_ (~aguai@li294-191.members.linode.com) joined #forth 12:34:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v aguai_ 12:35:04 --- nick: aguai_ -> aguai 12:40:19 --- join: ncv (~quassel@92.85.162.200) joined #forth 12:40:19 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 12:40:19 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 12:40:19 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 13:09:09 --- quit: black_13 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 13:19:04 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 13:20:57 --- join: ASau (~user@95-24-181-228.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 13:20:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 13:42:03 --- join: YamNad (~MayDaniel@host86-130-119-102.range86-130.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 13:42:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +v YamNad 13:44:29 --- quit: MayDaniel_ (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 14:04:40 --- join: Onionnion|Eee (~ryan@adsl-68-254-173-230.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 14:04:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion|Eee 14:41:12 --- quit: YamNad (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 14:42:00 --- join: YamNad (~MayDaniel@host86-130-119-102.range86-130.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 14:42:00 --- mode: ChanServ set +v YamNad 14:50:51 --- quit: ncv (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 15:23:11 --- quit: Nisstyre (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 15:27:44 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 15:27:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre 15:42:00 --- quit: nighty^ (Read error: Operation timed out) 15:59:58 --- join: nighty^ (~nighty@69-165-220-105.dsl.teksavvy.com) joined #forth 15:59:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty^ 16:18:06 --- quit: YamNad (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:35:35 --- quit: fantazo (Read error: Operation timed out) 16:52:50 --- quit: ASau (Remote host closed the connection) 16:53:47 --- join: ASau (~user@95-24-181-228.broadband.corbina.ru) joined #forth 16:53:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ASau 17:07:48 --- quit: Onionnion|Eee (Quit: Leaving) 17:55:19 --- quit: gnooth (Quit: Leaving) 17:58:51 --- join: Onionnion|Eee (~ryan@adsl-68-254-173-230.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 17:58:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion|Eee 18:09:20 --- quit: Onionnion|Eee (Quit: Leaving) 18:49:39 --- join: Onionnion|Eee (~ryan@adsl-68-254-173-230.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 18:49:39 --- quit: Onionnion|Eee (Client Quit) 19:48:47 --- join: black_13 (6cd22d8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.210.45.141) joined #forth 19:48:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +v black_13 19:49:04 what does the word "move" do? 19:49:29 probably essentially memcpy 19:49:31 is it like memmove 19:49:36 or memmove yes 19:50:22 could you give an example 19:50:43 would it work on an variable 19:52:35 generally you specify a source and destination address and a length 19:53:11 http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Docs-html/Memory-Blocks.html#index-move-_0040var_007b-c_002dfrom-c_002dto-ucount-_002d_002d--_007d--core-961 20:31:26 --- quit: cataska (Quit: leaving) 20:36:23 --- join: cataska (~cataska@210.64.6.233) joined #forth 20:36:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +v cataska 20:42:29 --- quit: black_13 (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 21:05:19 --- quit: nighty^ (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 21:19:16 --- quit: Onionnion (Quit: Leaving) 22:35:54 --- join: ncv (~quassel@92.85.162.200) joined #forth 22:35:54 --- quit: ncv (Changing host) 22:35:54 --- join: ncv (~quassel@unaffiliated/neceve) joined #forth 22:35:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ncv 22:35:54 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: GC...) 22:36:07 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 23:57:35 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@91-119-123-199.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #forth 23:57:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/12.10.14