00:00:00 --- log: started forth/12.07.20 00:04:41 --- quit: john_metcalf (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 00:13:58 --- quit: rbarraud_ (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 02:13:06 --- quit: sabren (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 02:17:47 --- join: john_metcalf (~digital_w@146.90.17.56) joined #forth 02:17:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +v john_metcalf 03:41:40 --- join: rbarraud_ (~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 03:41:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +v rbarraud_ 03:55:00 --- quit: rbarraud_ (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 05:09:25 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 05:09:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 05:27:43 --- quit: MayDaniel () 06:25:00 --- join: mrout (miles.rout@203-97-127-101.cable.telstraclear.net) joined #forth 06:25:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v mrout 06:25:35 Brilliance. 06:26:43 mrout: ? 06:28:59 The language, that there are 24 people in a channel about it. 06:33:00 --- quit: DGASAU (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06:36:00 --- join: DGASAU (~user@91.218.144.129) joined #forth 06:36:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DGASAU 06:41:20 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #forth 06:41:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 06:53:54 --- quit: jyfl987 (Quit: leaving) 07:18:33 --- join: impomatic (~chatzilla@146.90.17.56) joined #forth 07:18:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +v impomatic 07:52:00 clearly php is a better language, because it has more irc users 07:52:59 ewww 07:53:02 PHP is disgusting 07:53:08 Forth is a brilliant language 07:53:29 and I'm surprised it has as many people in here as it does, simply because it's an older language that isn't similar to C 07:56:01 Factor has more irc users. More irc users doesn't mean a better language though... 07:57:57 of course it doesn't 07:58:29 i was being sarcastic because i had believed that mrout was. perhaps i was in error. i didn't intend to start an argument :) 07:58:38 well, maybe i did, but not this one ;) 08:00:23 haha 08:03:07 Does anyone still read c.l.f? Always seems to be some weird stuff posted there... 08:04:17 yeah, occasionally i read it 08:25:57 ATS has less users. 08:26:02 It requires better education. 08:26:48 this conversation is pointless. 08:26:59 Forth is an excellent language for what it's good for. 08:27:32 it's crazy how small it can be 08:27:40 it's like interactive assembly language 08:28:32 yeah, absolutely crazy 08:53:05 dzho: That's *exactly* what I like about a decent Forth environment. It *is* an interactive assembly language. :) 08:53:34 Just one capable of stunning levels of abstraction if you care to build it right. 08:54:26 Yeah 08:54:31 excellence defined 09:17:41 --- quit: fantazo (Remote host closed the connection) 09:18:06 --- quit: ttmrichter (Quit: Leaving) 09:24:23 --- quit: mrout () 09:28:28 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 09:28:28 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 09:32:24 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 09:32:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty- 09:40:18 --- quit: MayDaniel () 09:46:23 --- join: MayDaniel (~MayDaniel@unaffiliated/maydaniel) joined #forth 09:46:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +v MayDaniel 10:05:58 --- join: Onionnion (~ryan@adsl-68-254-163-185.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) joined #forth 10:05:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Onionnion 10:54:50 --- join: sabren (~michal.wa@108-218-151-22.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 10:54:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +v sabren 11:27:40 --- quit: nighty- (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 11:30:51 --- join: nighty- (~nighty@static-68-179-124-161.ptr.terago.net) joined #forth 11:30:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v nighty- 12:42:10 one of the it-would-be-fun-someday-but-I-doubt-I-will-ever-get-around-to-it projects is to get a forth running on the AVRs in the Arduinos. 12:43:32 but then the arduino kiddies will try to ruin it ! 12:45:32 no skin off my nose 12:48:47 --- join: Kumul (~Kumul@67.224.135.212) joined #forth 12:48:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Kumul 12:49:24 yeah i just make the bombs, i don't drop them ! 12:49:25 ;) 12:51:03 heh 12:51:43 kulp: do you not like the arduino hardware, or the dev environment, none of the above, or what? 12:52:52 dzho: i have a mild but highly unjustified antipathy for the community 12:55:32 there are like three or four forths for arduino already... :) it's very doable. 12:55:56 https://www.google.com/search?q=avr+forth 12:56:32 but the great masses are going to stick with what comes with the IDE. :/ 13:00:58 yeah, I've done that search, and as it stands, I'm mostly with the masses. 13:01:22 because the bit I probably won't bother with is figuring out how to get an ISP to write onto it what I want 13:01:59 also, the Harvard architecture and Forth seem somewhat opposed at a design level, not that it can't be done, obviously. 13:05:00 i found this last night: http://www.4e4th.eu/ 13:05:15 it's forth running on a $4.30 board 13:05:27 not arduino... a chip from texas instruments 13:06:33 TI also has a $20 programmer shaped like a usb stick... you just snap the chip into it and can program it directly... even has live breadboard like pins :) 13:06:44 interesting 13:06:58 of course now i can't find it :D 13:07:14 the other "cheap" forth environment I encounter these days are old Macs with bad drives--just boot into Open Firmware and have at it. 13:07:47 https://estore.ti.com/EZ430-F2013-MSP430-USB-Stick-Development-Tool-P800.aspx 13:08:22 :D 13:08:30 https://estore.ti.com/MSP-EXP430G2-MSP430-LaunchPad-Value-Line-Development-kit-P2031.aspx out of stock :( 13:08:50 yeah, it sold out pretty quick from what i could gather 13:46:44 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 13:46:50 I have an ez430. Picked it up on eBay for a couple of pound. 13:47:19 Haven't tried to get Forth running on it yet. Only has 2K flash and 128 bytes RAM. 13:49:01 There are a few other cheap boards on a USB stick. I've mentioned a few here http://www.retroprogramming.com/2011/12/usb-stick-microcontroller-dev-boards.html 13:49:32 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 13:49:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +v segher 13:49:35 oh nice 13:49:58 --- quit: segher (Client Quit) 13:51:14 --- quit: Onionnion (Remote host closed the connection) 13:51:15 This one was mentioned in c.l.f recently http://www.diygadget.com/avr-micro-sd-development-board-atmega32u4.html 13:51:29 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 13:51:34 --- mode: ChanServ set +v segher 13:51:34 i'm not really looking for a microprocessor... what i really want is to do some parallel programming on a greenarray board, but i've never soldered anything in my life and i was thinking maybe i could use some other usb-ready controller as a stepping stone (I can't afford the $540 eval board :/) 13:54:17 Someone should do a Kickstarter for an affordable GA144 dev board. 13:55:50 if i knew how to assemble them, that's exactly what i'd do 13:56:44 --- quit: segher (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 13:58:40 --- join: segher (~segher@5ED3C8DF.cm-7-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl) joined #forth 13:58:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +v segher 13:59:57 john_metcalf: pretty cool blog 14:00:51 --- quit: Nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 14:08:40 sabren: thanks. It's a great way to find people interesting in the same obscure stuff :-) 14:09:53 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 14:09:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre 14:32:22 --- join: RodgerTheGreat (~rodger@71-13-215-128.dhcp.mrqt.mi.charter.com) joined #forth 14:32:22 --- mode: ChanServ set +v RodgerTheGreat 15:28:35 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@213.129.230.10) joined #forth 15:28:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 15:43:44 --- part: john_metcalf left #forth 16:15:05 --- quit: MayDaniel (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 16:18:31 --- quit: fantazo (Remote host closed the connection) 16:38:11 --- quit: impomatic (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]) 16:42:31 --- join: rbarraud_ (~rbarraud@222-155-139-54.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 16:42:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +v rbarraud_ 17:02:14 --- quit: Nisstyre (Quit: Leaving) 17:19:26 --- quit: nighty- (Quit: Disappears in a puff of smoke) 17:24:07 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 17:24:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre 17:29:34 --- quit: Nisstyre (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 17:37:41 does anyone know how to see the list of defined words in colorforth? 17:37:56 or... forth in general? :D 17:38:07 usually "words" 17:39:20 thanks! 17:39:38 did that work? 17:39:57 nope 17:40:13 generally "words" and some variation on "see" are the first step in exploring a strange new forth system if you don't have ready access to the source 17:40:32 huh 17:40:34 that's interesting 17:40:52 if I type "see" it responds "see?" but if i type "words" it just does... nothing 17:40:55 in colorforth I think you'd want to figure out which blocks contain the source to stuff 17:41:10 then perhaps "words" does something different in that system 17:41:29 usually "words" walks the dictionary and prints out word names and "see" is some sort of disassembler 17:41:44 see implementations come in widely varying levels of complexity 17:43:37 yeah, i've been looking at the source for a couple different forth systems... it's really cool how flexible it is 17:43:51 yeah 17:44:16 downside to the flexibility is that you never know what words will be available on a new system. :) 17:44:57 :) 17:46:00 i use a dvorak keyboard, and it doesn't play nice with how they expect the keys to be arranged... so i was trying to fix the keyboard mapping so i could explore the system... kind of a chicken and egg problem 17:46:11 --- join: Nisstyre (~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre) joined #forth 17:46:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +v Nisstyre 17:47:06 oh man 17:47:12 that doesn't sound like fun 17:48:37 haha, nah, it's plenty of fun... i could swap keyboard layouts if i wanted... i'm just being stubborn :D 17:48:52 the computer's supposed to work for *me*! 19:07:51 --- join: mrout (miles.rout@203-97-127-101.cable.telstraclear.net) joined #forth 19:07:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +v mrout 19:26:23 --- quit: RodgerTheGreat (Quit: RodgerTheGreat) 19:53:17 --- join: ttmrichter (~ttmrichte@60.169.25.156) joined #forth 19:53:17 --- mode: ChanServ set +v ttmrichter 19:54:09 --- join: fantazo (~fantazo@91-119-229-92.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) joined #forth 19:54:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +v fantazo 21:45:38 --- join: DocPlatypus (~skquinn@108-75-59-67.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net) joined #forth 21:45:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +v DocPlatypus 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/12.07.20